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Darwin - Half Right

Astrid

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But in order to claim that all the excesses conducted in the name of God were done in spite of God, one must also be willing to assume that excesses which are laid at the doorstep of evolution are done in spite of evolution.

Evolution, as a theory, does NOT lead one to racist policies (primarily because "race" is a synthetic construct, is not based on reality or science).

Quite the opposite.
Loss of genetic diversity is a loss,
not a gain.
The deliberate misinterpretation of
what Darwin said about which
societies will lose out is as
reprehensible for creationists
as it ever has been for any other
would be social engineer.
 
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AV1611VET

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Evolution, as a theory, does NOT lead one to racist policies (primarily because "race" is a synthetic construct, is not based on reality or science).
But what about evolution as a philosophy or concept?

People, as Hitler did, can take that and run the wrong way with it, just because it sounds plausible to them.

As did the Crusaders with the Bible, as did the witch hunters with the Bible, as did the Inquisition with the Bible.

It appears to me that Hitler's "final solution" was in spite of evolution, not with respect to it.

But again, I don't know what all evolution teaches either.

I just know it's wrong.
 
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Oneiric1975

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But what about evolution as a philosophy or concept?

As noted since "race" isn't a real thing it would be hard to use evolution as a means to enable racism.

It appears to me that Hitler's "final solution" was in spite of evolution, not with respect to it.

Agreed.
 
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Bradskii

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But in order to claim that all the excesses conducted in the name of God were done in spite of God, one must also be willing to assume that excesses which are laid at the doorstep of evolution are done in spite of evolution.

Evolution, as a theory, does NOT lead one to racist policies (primarily because "race" is a synthetic construct, is not based on reality or science).

I might point out that a common argument against evolution is to align it with eugenics and rhetorically ask if it's right that those who are the fittest should survive and whether evolution dictates that we can remove those who are less fit. Meaning remove those who are weaker. Which entirely miscontrues the term 'fittest'.

It doesn't mean those who are bigger and stronger. It means those who are the best 'fit' for the environment in which they find themselves. Which often means smaller and weaker. If the only food available was a limited amount of grain, would you rather be a lion or a mouse? The mouse would be the fittest.
 
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Hans Blaster

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But what about evolution as a philosophy or concept?

People, as Hitler did, can take that and run the wrong way with it, just because it sounds plausible to them.

Care to provide evidence that Hitler was using "the philosophy of evolution" to support his politics and policies?
 
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Bradskii

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But what about evolution as a philosophy or concept?

People, as Hitler did, can take that and run the wrong way with it, just because it sounds plausible to them.

As did the Crusaders with the Bible, as did the witch hunters with the Bible, as did the Inquisition with the Bible.

It appears to me that Hitler's "final solution" was in spite of evolution, not with respect to it.

But again, I don't know what all evolution teaches either.

I just know it's wrong.

Beats me how you can admit you know next to nothing about the evolutionary process and then have the gall to suggest that 'the philosophy' of evolution might be used in the wrong way. I'm not exagerating for effect here when I say that that suggestion is as risible as suggesting that the philosophy of gravity might be used by some to throw people off buildings.
 
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driewerf

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People, as Hitler did, can take that and run the wrong way with it, just because it sounds plausible to them.
Let me help you here.

I went through an English translation of Mein Kampf.
Here is essence of Hitler's (sickening) thought.
Here is my source:

http://www.greatwar.nl/books/meinkampf/meinkampf.pdf

p59
And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord.
See, the Lord is referenced as the Almighty Creator.

p182
What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfil the mission assigned to it by the Creator.
See: the Germans were created and a mission was assigned to them.

p214
But if for reasons of indolence or cowardice this fight [against syphilis and prostitution] is not fought to a finish we may imagine what conditions will be like 500 years hence. Little of God's image will be left in human nature, except to mock the Creator.
See: humans are created in God's Image -- were do we know that phrase from?

p238
The act ["race mixing"] which brings about such a development is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator. And as a sin this act will be avenged.
See: "race mixing" is a sin against an eternal Creator.

p317
To undermine the existence of human culture by exterminating its founders and custodians [ the Aryans] would be an execrable crime in the eyes of those who believe that the folkidea lies at the basis of human existence. Whoever would dare to raise a profane hand against that highest image of God among His creatures would sin against the bountiful Creator of this marvel and would collaborate in the expulsion from Paradise.
See: the Aryans are created in the image of god -- where do we know that phrase from?

p329
Thus for the first time a high inner purpose is accredited to the State. In face of the ridiculous phrase that the State should do no more than act as the guardian of public order and tranquillity, so that everybody can peacefully dupe everybody else, it is given a very high mission indeed to preserve and encourage the highest type of humanity which a beneficent Creator has bestowed on this earth.
See: humanity has been "bestowed" on this earth by a creator.

p335
Why should it not be possible to induce people to make this sacrifice if, instead of such a precept, they were simply told that they ought to put an end to this truly original sin of racial corruption which is steadily being passed on from one generation to another. And, further, they ought to be brought to realize that it is their bounden duty to give to the Almighty Creator beings such as He himself made to His own image.
Again: made to his own image.

p354
The bourgeois mind does not realize that it is a sin against the will of the eternal Creator to allow hundreds of thousands of highly gifted people to remain floundering in the swamp of proletarian misery[...`].

And bellow a quote without any mentioning of a Creator, God, but it is very telling about Hitler's thinking.

p238
History furnishes us with innumerable instances that prove this law. It shows, with a startling clarity, that whenever Aryans have mingled their blood with that of an inferior race the result has been the downfall of the people who were the standard-bearers of a higher culture. In North America, where the population is prevalently Teutonic, and where those elements intermingled with the inferior race only to a very small degree, we have a quality of mankind and a civilization which are different from those of Central and South America. In these latter countries the immigrants--who mainly belonged to the Latin races--mated with the aborigines, sometimes to a very large extent indeed. In this case we have a clear and decisive example of the effect produced by the mixture of races. But in North America the Teutonic element, which has kept its racial stock pure and did not mix it with any other racial stock, has come to dominate the American Continent and will remain master of it as long as that element does not fall a victim to the habit of adulterating its blood.



Why did I quote this: because it goes directly against evolutionary thinking. While population evolutionists insist that a wide genetic diversity is important for keeping a population healthy, the nazis insisted on "racial purity", thus narrowing down the genetic diversity.


See, AV1611VET; Hitler was a creationist.
 
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AV1611VET

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See, AV1611VET; Hitler was a creationist.
That was quite scholarly, driewerf, and I gave it a well-deserved INFORMATIVE like.

But did I not say people can "go the wrong way" with evolution?

Thanks for the QED.
 
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driewerf

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That was quite scholarly, driewerf, and I gave it a well-deserved INFORMATIVE like.
Thank you.
But did I not say people can "go the wrong way" with evolution?
You did. But Hitler and the nazis are not an example of that. It would be different if you had mentioned Herbert Spencer.
Thanks for the QED.
No QED. Your example was poorly chosen.
 
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AV1611VET

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It would be different if you had mentioned Herbert Spencer.
Again, thank you for another name to ponder.

Interesting guy.

How can he (or anyone) support Lamarckism, when it is so easy to falsify. All you have to do is cut off a mouse's tail, then observe it as it breeds and has offspring with tails.

Also, he probably wasn't aware of inbreeding depression?
 
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Bradskii

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Again, thank you for another name to ponder.

Interesting guy.

How can he (or anyone) support Lamarckism, when it is so easy to falsify. All you have to do is cut off a mouse's tail, then observe it as it breeds and has offspring with tails.

Also, he probably wasn't aware of inbreeding depression?

'I've just had my argument completely dismantl...ooh, look. A pidgeon!'
 
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essentialsaltes

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AV1611VET

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You said that, but what you will not find in Mein Kampf are any references to Darwin or Evolution.

...

Nazis were not waiving around copies of On the Origin of Species ...
Nevertheless, I believe both books* were inspired by the same author.

* The Struggle for Life and My Struggle.
 
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