How do you know God is good?

[Neogaia777]

Are you saying that other people can be fooled, but Christians can't?

Anyone can be worshiping a mere angel instead of the true God, especially in their heart, etc...

But then that gets into a discussion of "idols", etc...

What is, and what isn't, etc, and who is, and who isn't, etc...

But it is my opinion that there is just as many so-called "Christians" that are just as equally guilty of this, as there are people among the people of the rest of the world that are, etc, or is, etc, guilty of doing this, etc...

Ignorance is not a valid enough excuse for either people group, etc, most especially among Christians, etc...

In my opinion, Christians have even very much less of an excuse for being fooled this way, etc...

But it happens, and I believe is happening "a lot" in so-called "Christian" circles, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Are you saying that other people can be fooled, but Christians can't?

Christians should be a lot less likely of worshiping an angel that has taken, like, the place of some kind of literal false god or anything like that, etc, like in and/or of another religion, etc, but they can still be worshiping what that god might be god of, or might represent, in their hearts still, etc, and be doing so above the true God, who is the actual true provider of it, or true God of it, etc...

This does/did not offend God the Father so much as it does/did Jesus, and God the Spirit, etc...

For all is, and has always been all always, all in the Father's hands always, etc...

God the Spirit might have a different take on it now, or He might not, etc, but we'll find out when Jesus comes back, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Bradskii]

Anyone can be worshiping a mere angel instead of the true God, especially in their heart, etc...

But then that gets into a discussion of "idols", etc...

What is, and what isn't, etc, and who is, and who isn't, etc...

But it is my opinion that there is just as many so-called "Christians" that are just as equally guilty of this, as there are people among the people of the rest of the world that are, etc, or is, etc, guilty of doing this, etc...

Ignorance is not a valid enough excuse for either people group, etc, most especially among Christians, etc...

In my opinion, Christians have even very much less of an excuse for being fooled this way, etc...

But it happens, and I believe is happening "a lot" in so-called "Christian" circles, etc...

God Bless!

But to others. Not yourself. You are excused because of...?

 

[Neogaia777]

But to others. Not yourself. You are excused because of...?

Because of God, but other than that, I do not know, etc, nor do I know for sure if I am still any more "excused" anymore than any others are or will be absolutely for sure yet, but I believe I will be spared in the end, etc...

But not because of "me", etc...

I always pray for all the others, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

But to others. Not yourself. You are excused because of...?

God has favored me enough to teach me a few things I will need and do need even right now to be saved, etc, but I do not know if it is that way for everyone, etc, and by "for everyone", I mean if they need to have the same things I do, or need to meet the same requirements I do, or have the same knowledge I do, etc, or come from the same places that I do, etc, to be spared or saved, etc...

I wrestle with God about this a lot, etc, for your sakes, etc, even have tried to back Him into a corner with clever reasoning and crafty logic sometimes as to why not all should be spared or saved, etc, but while He won't let me know if it will be many or few, He has let me know that not absolutely all can be spared or saved, and has shown or let me know just how or why, so that I can't deny, etc...

His reasoning/logic, etc, always seems superior to my own, etc...

So that I can't deny, etc...

God Bless!

 

[jayem]

Because if not for God there is no possibility of a benchmark of goodness. We all know deep down that evil is absurdity so there must be a standard of goodness. Since finite, imperfect, and mortal beings like you or I cannot hope to define that standard from our own experiences or decisions we need a Being that survives all our poor criticisms. Only an Almighty, Eternal, and All-knowing God could also by definition define goodness.

OK, you're saying that of necessity, there must exist an entity of perfect goodness that serves as the ultimate exemplar of moral rectitude. That entity is God. To me, that's more of a prudential rather than an evidential argument. Why couldn't God be dualistic? At some times, the apogee of benevolence. At others, the nadir of malevolence. Or maybe there are 2 Gods--one totally merciful and magnanimous, and one utterly pitiless and hateful. Both are in constant, never ending struggle with each other. Aside from having faith in traditional religious teachings, there's no way to determine God's moral nature.

 

[mindlight]

OK, you're saying that of necessity, there must exist an entity of perfect goodness that serves as the ultimate exemplar of moral rectitude. That entity is God. To me, that's more of a prudential rather than an evidential argument. Why couldn't God be dualistic? At some times, the apogee of benevolence. At others, the nadir of malevolence. Or maybe there are 2 Gods--one totally merciful and magnanimous, and one utterly pitiless and hateful. Both are in constant, never ending struggle with each other. Aside from having faith in traditional religious teachings, there's no way to determine God's moral nature.

My argument from necessity and also consideration of the finite, imperfect, and mortal commentary of dissenters is a logical refutation of our ability to speculate. The only options left are to believe or not to believe in what God Himself has revealed about His goodness. You base your two-god theory and speculation on the observation of good and evil in the world. My argument is that the presence of either cannot prove your theory either way and so it is a moot argument. Because we do not know and cannot say from our own resources we can only choose to accept or reject a logically acceptable alternative. A God that is Almighty, Eternal, and All-knowing is the only possible foundation for any absolute sense of goodness.

 

[TedT]

Nearly 2 billion people in the world have been moved by the Koran. Some have sacrificed themselves in the belief they’re acting according to Allah’s will. Not to mention that a billion or so people revere the Bhagavad Gita. And many millions observe the teachings of the Buddha in the Tripitaka.

...and that too is evidence of something, not a complete lack of evidence as some have suggested.

 

[TedT]

Strictly speaking, that's not possible. We are all coerced in some ways. Either by other people's opinions, the current conditions, our own opinions (which are based on previous experiences which were tempered by previous condition and other people's opinions etc) and so on. None of us make a decision in a vacuum. There is always a reason for it.

And if those reasons dictate our decisions in every case then it could be said that we have no free will in that sense.

Well Bradskii, you are quite correct - life on earth is full of coercions, especially our enslavement to sin but you should know that
1. while I do believe in the absolute necessity of our free will, I do not believe sinners have a free will.

2. The time pre-sin when we could have had a real free will was before the creation of the physical universe which some people called ALL the Sons of GOD saw and sang HIS praises with joy, Job 38:7, that is, before our conception as humans since I accept the doctrine all are sinners, everyone, from their conception.

3. I reject inherited sin as a blasphemy and suggest instead that we are only judged for sin and sinfulness by a free will decision to sin, which, as you mention, had to be before physical life and all its coercions and constraints.

 

[jayem]

...and that too is evidence of something, not a complete lack of evidence as some have suggested.

It’s evidence of how the human brain works. Our brains evolved to seek reasons and explanations. When these aren’t obvious, we postulate them. Every human society on earth has attributed events that defied simple explanation to gods, spirits, or other supernatural entities. Culturally different societies, in different environments, will obviously create different gods, with different characteristics, and different rituals to worship and appease them. That’s why there have been so many gods throughout history. And to me, that simple fact is evidence against one and only one god. As I’ve stated earlier, if there is a single sovereign god, who desires to be known and to have an exclusive relationship with mankind, why would so many false gods have been allowed to exist?

 

[Neogaia777]

OK, you're saying that of necessity, there must exist an entity of perfect goodness that serves as the ultimate exemplar of moral rectitude. That entity is God. To me, that's more of a prudential rather than an evidential argument. Why couldn't God be dualistic? At some times, the apogee of benevolence. At others, the nadir of malevolence. Or maybe there are 2 Gods--one totally merciful and magnanimous, and one utterly pitiless and hateful. Both are in constant, never ending struggle with each other. Aside from having faith in traditional religious teachings, there's no way to determine God's moral nature.

You are actually talking about God the Spirit (YHWH) and Satan in the OT, and Jesus with the Holy Spirit (God the Spirit/YHWH) and Satan in the NT, and Jesus/YHWH's followers during and/or after the NT, under the NC, etc...

God the Father has no rivals or enemies, but predestined all...

And if you want me to say anything more about these things, I would be happy to explain it to you, but you'll have to PM me for anything further, because I can get into a lot of trouble for it on here, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

It’s evidence of how the human brain works. Our brains evolved to seek reasons and explanations. When these aren’t obvious, we postulate them. Every human society on earth has attributed events that defied simple explanation to gods, spirits, or other supernatural entities. Culturally different societies, in different environments, will obviously create different gods, with different characteristics, and different rituals to worship and appease them. That’s why there have been so many gods throughout history. And to me, that simple fact is evidence against one and only one god. As I’ve stated earlier, if there is a single sovereign god, who desires to be known and to have an exclusive relationship with mankind, why would so many false gods have been allowed to exist?

Because there are also angels, etc, some good, some bad, etc...

Whether or not we came up with some of them, either way, they found a place to fill (the angels) and a way to be worshiped by men as gods, etc...

But there is a God who was supposed to be in control of them all (God in and of the OT, or YHWH, or God the Spirit), but the Father God, who is and has always been the highest God, etc, arranged for some of the angels to rebel against Him (YHWH) and give Him quite a bit of trouble, in the old and new testaments, with being our God, etc...

The overall purpose of the Father being, to grow and mature us all, etc...

Into one day knowing and being like Him, the Father God, etc...

Like I said, PM me, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Bradskii]

Well Bradskii, you are quite correct - life on earth is full of coercions, especially our enslavement to sin but you should know that
1. while I do believe in the absolute necessity of our free will, I do not believe sinners have a free will.

But as we are all sinners, are you saying that none of us has free will?

 

[HitchSlap]

But as we are all sinners, are you saying that none of us has free will?

You have free will because you had no choice!

 

[Bradskii]

You have free will because you had no choice!

A Hitch classic!

 

[Eloy Craft]

So you claim, but can you prove that ?

It's been proven to me and many others. A prerequisite condition is to love God. Otherwise to witness a martyrdom or a miracle could work for an atheist

 

[Eloy Craft]

It’s evidence of how the human brain works. Our brains evolved to seek reasons and explanations. When these aren’t obvious, we postulate them. Every human society on earth has attributed events that defied simple explanation to gods, spirits, or other supernatural entities. Culturally different societies, in different environments, will obviously create different gods, with different characteristics, and different rituals to worship and appease them. That’s why there have been so many gods throughout history. And to me, that simple fact is evidence against one and only one god. As I’ve stated earlier, if there is a single sovereign god, who desires to be known and to have an exclusive relationship with mankind, why would so many false gods have been allowed to exist?

Angels aren't able to do anything Supernatural. Only God can. Angels can do preternatural works.They are created natural beIngs. You Won't find an angel that can do miracles. They can fake a miracle. Some of us can distinguish the fakes from the real. Man is hardwired to worship, if not God something else will be worshipped. Anything we put first in our lives is what we worship. It's usually pleasure if not God.

 

[Bradskii]

It's been proven to me and many others. A prerequisite condition is to love God. Otherwise to witness a martyrdom or a miracle could work for an atheist

I've watched people martyr themselves (and kill thousands in the process) live on TV. Didn't do much about my lack of faith.

 

[jayem]

I've watched people martyr themselves (and kill thousands in the process) live on TV. Didn't do much about my lack of faith.

I'm waiting for a miracle. Like getting a logical and coherent answer to some of my questions.

 

[Neogaia777]

I'm waiting for a miracle. Like getting a logical and coherent answer to some of my questions.

Like I said, if you PM me, I'll do my very best to try and answer any and all questions you may have, or might like, etc, logically and very reasonably and very straightforwardly, etc, but you'll have to PM me with the questions and/or conversations though, as I can't talk about it like I would want to talk about it publicly on here out in the open openly on here openly, etc...

But, I am just now checking in on this right before going to bed right now, so I may not get around to it until tomorrow or the next day right now maybe, etc...

Anyway, have a good night, and a good night all...

God Bless!