Good effort. Good effort.Let me give it a go, @Tinker Grey. My wife wants me to paint the bathroom windows so I need to look busy...
If only our interlocutor could do as much.
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Good effort. Good effort.Let me give it a go, @Tinker Grey. My wife wants me to paint the bathroom windows so I need to look busy...
In that way lying to Adam and Even about "you will die if you eat the fruit of that tree"There could be a fourth possibility - that God is good... perhaps based on God's definition of morality...
[55] Then why does he let sin exist ?You describe a non-free will situation but call it free will...you are having me on aren't you? GOD can't do logical inconsistencies. 2+2≠7. Water is wet and the results of a free will decision must be chosen, not created or it is not free will.Moral Orel 256 said:Everyone that God creates can have free will and sin never needs to exist, so why does God want sin to exist at all?!
He does not want sin to exist [55]- HE wants everyone to choose the life they want to live: Our free will decision to live with HIM in heaven is a much more important than actually living there with HIM because, as I have repeatedly said, love and marriage are only real from a free will acceptance of the proposal.
Most Christians think their morality is better because it supposedly is not a preference. Apparently you don't share that delusion.TedT 260 said:I think your willingness to gaslight folk who do believe this as unreasonable or worse is par for the atheist course who has run out of reasons for his morality except personal preference. If you have that right, why do I not?Bradskii said:[Romans 1:29]'...filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.'
Do you think a reasonable person would accept that as a valid proposal?
Aha. So God's love is conditional. He only loves those who do as he pleases. That dispells the myth that God all loving.TedT 263 said:...and you ignore my protestations that the guarantee is not found in our creation (or GOD's because HE was not created) but in our commitment to our decision to be morally good in accord with YHWH's nature as morally good.Moral Orel said:This is why we established that it is not a logical inconsistency for God to have free will and it be a 100% guarantee that He will always choose the Good.
[33] I thought so.TedT said:[no response]Amoranemix 268 said:[32] I mistakingly assumed that what you said was relevant and speculated what the relevance could be.
OK, so these false gods do not help marriages being free. In order to explain why God would allow them, we have to look elsewhere.
[33] I expected there would be a reason for your claim from post 156 to be true, but apparently not. Can you at least demonstrate it ?
[34] Can you at least demonstrate the absolute necessity of the others to be able to respond freely to God's loving proposal of marriage ?
Maybe none of us know how sin is supposed to make people's lives filthy because it doesn't.TedT said:[no response]Amoranemix 268 said:[50] How is sin supposed to make the best parts of people's lives filthy ?
You forgot to answer my question.TedT said:[no response]Amoranemix 268 said:[52] That is a good realization. In their zeal to innocentiate God from everything reprehensible Christians often ignore that decisions of humans more than decisions of God are uninformed.
[53] So it is the knowledge that robs one of one's free will, not the proof. Hence, those who know they will go to Hell if they sin, are not free to sin.
[54] Why is that ?
If your English skill is poor, try using short sentences. Also consider using assistance fom online automatic translation. Use it as an opportunity to practice.[discourse in language resembling English]
ad hom and i literally had 0 grammatical errors in the sentence as many of the replies weren't entirely mines some had quotes others didn't either way you never responded to my rebuttals.If your English skill is poor, try using short sentences. Also consider using assistance fom online automatic translation. Use it as an opportunity to practice.
For some reason in another thread you manage to write less bad English.
Like i said God doesn't do anything ethically wrong so he isn't good by definition but rather by evidence if you can provide proof God is ethically immoral than your grounds wouldn't be baseless.It looks like Christians have given up.
In conclusion : we don't know that God is good, but those who do know that do so because they define God that way. It would be like neonazis knowing Adolf Hitler was good because they defined him that way. “If he weren't good, then he would not have been Adolf Hitler.”
God's goodness is definition-based, not evidence-based.
To achieve HIS purpose of a true marriage with HIS creation, we had to be able to accept HIS marriage proposal by our free will with no coercion or constraint put upon us by HIM. For a will to be free of all coercions from HIM, it has to be be free to reject HIM and HIS purposes. To go against HIM is to become evil, addicted to sin and unable to anymore choose righteousness. Without our ability to choose by our free will to become evil and to sin HE couldn't have fulfilled HIS purpose for our creation, ie, a true marriage with HIM.[55] Then why does he let sin exist ?
GOD is all loving in HIS creation, creating everyone with and equal ability and opportunity to choose to be in accord with HIM and HIS purpose of marriage, being chosen to be HIS elect, or to reject HIM and HIS purpose, becoming eternally evil.Aha. So God's love is conditional. He only loves those who do as he pleases. That dispells the myth that God all loving.
Jesus is a reason I believe God is good. Because Jesus is good and he is God incarnate.Other than having faith in the Bible, and religious tradition, is there any way to know that the biblical God is morally good? Based solely on observation, it’s far more logical to believe that God—if one even exists—is one of 3 possibilities:
1) Dualistic. Sometimes good, sometimes evil. Or possibly 2 gods—one good, and one evil, in constant struggle with each other.
2) Morally neutral and uninvolved.
3) Morally evil and deceptive.
God is love.Other than having faith in the Bible, and religious tradition, is there any way to know that the biblical God is morally good? Based solely on observation, it’s far more logical to believe that God—if one even exists—is one of 3 possibilities:
1) Dualistic. Sometimes good, sometimes evil. Or possibly 2 gods—one good, and one evil, in constant struggle with each other.
2) Morally neutral and uninvolved.
3) Morally evil and deceptive.
We're caught in the middle between these two opposing powers, both of whom are hidden from us, and we are therefore left with reasonable faith to persevere in our belief that "God is good", despite all the challenges that moral and natural evil pose to our faith.