How do you know God is good?

[Tinker Grey]

Not all man-made, but pretty descriptive of man when I consider Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol-Pot ... or even the hurtful gossip down the street.

So your defense of your god's failure to stop evil is tu quoque?

 

[JohnEmmett]

So your defense of your god's failure to stop evil is tu quoque?

you assume evil is only bad


whereas evil often leads to better


hence God is not failing…

~

 

[Rachel20]

So your defense of your god's failure to stop evil is tu quoque?

I believe God has been stopping even greater evil all along (2 Thess 2), but will make a final end of it at some point in the future. A failure to do so in our preferred timing isn't a failure to do so.

 

[jayem]

Christianity is also the only explanation I find for these things, via man's fallen condition. But the creation still contains the remnant of its initial and intended beauty.

As was noted earlier, I’m not sure how Christianity’s doctrine of man’s fallen condition can logically explain the 2004 tsunami that killed at least 225,000 people in Malaysia and southeast Asia. At least 1/3 of the victims were children. Maybe God’s goodness is revealed by the fact that there weren’t 500,000 fatalities. But I’m sure you are sincere in your faith that God is loving and benevolent. And I won’t argue with faith.

 

[JohnEmmett]

I’m not sure how Christianity’s doctrine of man’s fallen condition can logically explain the 2004 tsunami that killed at least 225,000 people

everyone dies at some point


why are you concerned about timing

But I’m sure you are sincere in your faith that God is loving and benevolent.

the gods generally are, their karma is heavenly

 

[JohnClay]

As was noted earlier, I’m not sure how Christianity’s doctrine of man’s fallen condition can logically explain the 2004 tsunami that killed at least 225,000 people in Malaysia and southeast Asia. At least 1/3 of the victims were children. Maybe God’s goodness is revealed by the fact that there weren’t 500,000 fatalities. But I’m sure you are sincere in your faith that God is loving and benevolent. And I won’t argue with faith.

Apparently God gave people (and angels) free will and that resulted in sin, suffering, death, and the curse...
Romans 8:22

"We know that all that God created has been groaning. It is in pain as if it were giving birth to a child. The created world continues to groan even now"​

But apparently one day there will be justice (the new heavens and earth and the lake of fire)

Yes that involves the Bible but there's also posts #2 and #6.

 

[jayem]

everyone dies at some point


why are you concerned about timing



the gods generally are, their karma is heavenly

Yes, everyone eventually dies. Some sooner, some later. How does this advance the belief that God is good?

 

[JohnEmmett]

Yes, everyone eventually dies. Some sooner, some later. How does this advance the belief that God is good?

God is good… also… people die


perhaps from water, perhaps from fire

 

[jayem]

Apparently God gave people (and angels) free will and that resulted in sin, suffering, death, and the curse...
Romans 8:22

"We know that all that God created has been groaning. It is in pain as if it were giving birth to a child. The created world continues to groan even now"​

But apparently one day there will be justice (the new heavens and earth and the lake of fire)

Couldn’t this happen in exactly the same way if God were evil and deceptive? Other than having faith, how can you know that justice and a new earth will eventually prevail?

 

[JohnEmmett]

Couldn’t this happen in exactly the same way if God were evil and deceptive?

are you not aware of your confusion?


the heavens are from good karma


those in heaven are virtuous

~

 

[jayem]

God is good… also… people die


perhaps from water, perhaps from fire

You believe God is good as a matter of faith. But that can’t be ascertained by observing how the world operates.

 

[JohnEmmett]

You believe God is good as a matter of faith.

No, a matter of logic

 

[jayem]

Don't I have to find out what "the Good" is first before I apply an axiological evaluation to the God of the Bible?

OK. Several examples of good:

Health.
Safety.
Faithful friends.
A loving family.
Freedom from stress and want.
Happiness and contentment with life.
Doing what you can to help provide these to those who don’t have them.

I’d define whatever promotes these qualities as good. What do you define as good?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Cancer, parasites, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, venomous snakes, stinging insects, poison ivy ...

And ticks! Don't forget the ticks.

 

[Eloy Craft]

How do we know that good exists?

Because there are universal goods.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Yes, good things happen. If everything was unrelenting misery, we wouldn’t know anything else. And as I said, an evil and deceitful God could allow some good in order to hide his true nature. Whatever good there is isn’t necessarily evidence that God is good.

How could the creature be greater than the creator? Can the pot tell the potter "I don't approve of you"? The potter that fears the pot doesn't exist.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Because there are universal goods.

Ah. What are these universal goods?

 

[jayem]

How could the creature be greater than the creator? Can the pot tell the potter "I don't approve of you"? The potter that fears the pot doesn't exist.

How many times have I read posts from Christians saying God didn’t create robots? Assuming a creator God exists, he gave us free will. And a brain that observes, processes information, thinks, and seeks answers and explanations using reason and logic. As I see it, God should expect us to ask questions, even about God himself. If there is a God.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

OK. Several examples of good:

Health.
Safety.
Faithful friends.
A loving family.
Freedom from stress and want.
Happiness and contentment with life.
Doing what you can to help provide these to those who don’t have them.

I’d define whatever promotes these qualities as good. What do you define as good?

No, those things simply make up a generic list of common values, but they don't establish any kind of absolute metaphysic informing an "official" body of axiological principles. All you have are preferences. If we're not sociopathic/psychopathic, then we each generally lean toward the items you've listed; but there's nothing in the universe that imposes upon us a recognition of any of this stuff.

So, let's not conflate a subjectively constructed list of 'generally beneficial things for human survival' with some kind of overarching, ruling idea of the "GOOD." These are two different things ...

And what do I define as "Good"? I think you know.

 

[jayem]

No, those things simply make up a generic list of common values, but they don't establish any kind of absolute metaphysic informing an "official" body of axiological principles. All you have are preferences. If we're not sociopathic/psychopathic, then we each generally lean toward the items you've listed; but there's nothing in the universe that imposes upon us a recognition of any of this stuff.

So, let's not conflate a subjectively constructed list of 'generally beneficial things for human survival' with some kind of overarching, ruling idea of the "GOOD." These are two different things ...

And what do I define as "Good"? I think you know.

Who cares about an overarching, absolute concept of good? Metaphysics is for Philosophy 101. My concerns are those practical, everyday values that make our lives worth living. My question is how can anyone know that God—assuming a God exists—reflects and supports these values?