Born again (born from above)

[zoidar]

If the new birth is some supernatural, monergistic movement of the Holy Spirit upon the individual where the individual has no role at all, then if one is not born again, whose fault would that be? It cannot be the indiiduals fault. Could Christ rightly, justly condemn one (as Nicodemus) who has not been born again, condemn one for something that was impossible, outside the control of the individual? How does the Holy Spirit determine which individuals to act upon? Is the Holy Spirit being a respecter of pesons by acting upon one person and not another? God desires all men be saved, then why dosen't the Holy Spirit act upon all men...Jesus 'would' those Jews be under His wing (Matthew 23:37) whose fault was it they were not if man has no role, no say so in who is saved/born again or not born again?

for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved (born again).”
— Romans 10:13

 

[Butterball1]

"For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel." - Rom 9:6

Romans 11:
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abr4aham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

"His people" here cannot refer to fleshly Israel for God did cast away fleshly Israel (Romans 11:7-23). Since God cast off fleshly Israel, then why wasn't Paul cast off since he was of fleshly Israel, seed of Abraham, tribe of Benjamin? Because he had become a Christian, a spiritual Jew (Romans 2:28-29) of spiritual Israel the church [Galatians 6:16].


God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

"His people" must then refer to spiritual Israel, Christians. God's people has always been those who obey Him as under the OT, those who obeyed God and did not bow to Baal (Romans 11:4). Under the NT, those who obey the gospel of Christ ('election of grace' - Romans 11:5).

"His people" a plurality of people God foreknew referring to the group Christian and not referring to specific individuals apart from the group.
Now did God "foreknow" and "predestinate" the salvation of specific individuals regardless of their own free will choice? But if this is what Paul is teaching here, how could such individuals have ever been "broken off"? This type of predestination is certainly not taught in this chapter, for this chapter teaches that the people of God can lose their salvation, if they cease to act like God"s people (Rom 11:20-22). Rather, God foreknew the "type" of person that would be part of "His people", i.e. believers.

Important point to Note: God never rejects a person that meets the conditions for being "His people", i.e. an obedient trust. But if one of His people veers off into unbelief, they have ceased to be "His people". (Romans 2:28-29; Revelation 3:9)." Dunagan Commentary

 

[Butterball1]

for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved (born again).”
— Romans 10:13

This means man has a role in his own salvation therefore salvation/new birth is not monergistic....man has a role in his own new birth.....

"Calling on the name of the Lord" means doing what the Lord says to do (Luke 6:46). Therefore those men who do as the Lord says and are water baptized (born of water) (Mark 16:16) are the ones who become born again.

 

[zoidar]

This means man has a role in his own salvation therefore salvation/new birth is not monergistic....man has a role in his own new birth.....

"Calling on the name of the Lord" means doing what the Lord says to do (Luke 6:46). Therefore those men who do as the Lord says and are water baptized (born of water) (Mark 16:16) are the ones who become born again.

What part man plays is up for discussion. I was born again the 21th of June 2010, at home praying to God for forgiveness. I was baptized as a baby and after being saved/born again I was baptized again as a believer.

 

[Butterball1]

What part man plays is up for discussion. I was born again the 21th of June 2010, at home praying to God for forgiveness. I was baptized as a baby and after being saved/born again I was baptized again as a believer.

Either man has a role in his new birth or he does not. If he does have a role, but not born again, then that is man's fault, culpability. If man has no role and is not born again, then it must be the failure of the Holy Spirit for not monergistically acting upon the individual. If Nicodemus was not born again whose fault was it? Could Christ rightly justly criticize Nicodemus for not being born again since it would have been out of his control?

Water baptism that brings about the new birth is only for believers who have sinned. Infants cannot believe and have no sin therefore not candidates for the new birth.....

Jesus used the phrase "born again" with the word "again" implying one must have been born BEFORE in order to be born AGAIN. The first birth is the physical birth where men are born into the world without sin (Romans 9:11) innocent before God. But as infants grow up and mature intellectually they learn right from wrong (Isaiah 7:15-16) becoming accountable to God's law then sin springs up....

For without the law sin was dead.
I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.

As a infant Paul was spiritually "alive" and sin was dead to him. But as he grew and intellectually matured learning right from wrong becoming accountable to God's law then sin sprang up in him and he died spiritually. Yet when he obeyed the gospel being water baptized (Acts of the Apostles 22:16) all his sins were washed away and he was 'born again' and returned back to the "alive" spiritual state he was in when he was first born.

(Note that Saul/Paul being baptized, he was calling on the name of the Lord)

One is not born into the world a sinner nor does the new birth make one a sinner. But one is born into the world without sin, born "alive" and the new birth returns one back to that 'alive' spiritual state without sin.

 

[doctorwho29]

It's when Jesus died on the cross He offered forgiveness to all people. When we accept that forgiveness at the moment of salvation, we are washed clean of all our sins forever. We are, in God's eyes, as if we were a new and pure creation, worthy to enter into His presence. That's what it means to be born again. We still struggle with sin but sin is no longer our master, we can overcome with His help

 

[lsume]

1. What does it mean to be born again?
2. Is there any difference from the normal experience of baptism?
3. Are all Christians born again?

SCRIPTURES:
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
John 3:3-7

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 24 because

“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
25 But the word of the Lord endures forever.”
1 Peter 1:22-25

Malachi 3:1-3 describes what happens. If you read Numbers 16:29 and the story that surrounds it, the first use of the word “visitation” can be found. All must be taught directly by God. First you must be born again.

 

[zoidar]

Either man has a role in his new birth or he does not. If he does have a role, but not born again, then that is man's fault, culpability. If man has no role and is not born again, then it must be the failure of the Holy Spirit for not monergistically acting upon the individual. If Nicodemus was not born again whose fault was it? Could Christ rightly justly criticize Nicodemus for not being born again since it would have been out of his control?

Water baptism that brings about the new birth is only for believers who have sinned. Infants cannot believe and have no sin therefore not candidates for the new birth.....

Jesus used the phrase "born again" with the word "again" implying one must have been born BEFORE in order to be born AGAIN. The first birth is the physical birth where men are born into the world without sin (Romans 9:11) innocent before God. But as infants grow up and mature intellectually they learn right from wrong (Isaiah 7:15-16) becoming accountable to God's law then sin springs up....

For without the law sin was dead.
I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.

As a infant Paul was spiritually "alive" and sin was dead to him. But as he grew and intellectually matured learning right from wrong becoming accountable to God's law then sin sprang up in him and he died spiritually. Yet when he obeyed the gospel being water baptized (Acts of the Apostles 22:16) all his sins were washed away and he was 'born again' and returned back to the "alive" spiritual state he was in when he was first born.

(Note that Saul/Paul being baptized, he was calling on the name of the Lord)

One is not born into the world a sinner nor does the new birth make one a sinner. But one is born into the world without sin, born "alive" and the new birth returns one back to that 'alive' spiritual state without sin.

Was just saying I was born again and it had nothing to do with my baptism (at least not the believers baptism. Took me a year after my rebirth to get the baptism).

 

[Butterball1]

Was just saying I was born again and it had nothing to do with my baptism (at least not the believers baptism. Took me a year after my rebirth to get the baptism).

The new birth only takes place at the point of water baptism.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think all who are scripturally water baptized are born again. For a person to be baptized he must be a believer and understand why, understand the purpose for which he is being baptized. One must have faith (understanding) in order to be baptized and for that baptism pleasing to God, (Hebrews 11:6). If one has not been properly taught and therefore does not understand then they are not being baptized but just getting wet.

Our Lord said to not forbid little children to Him. It is God who is at work in Baptism, not man; it is by grace alone that we are saved, through faith, and this is not of ourselves, it is God's gift.

God works through His Means of Grace. And so biblically, the baptized are regenerated, and it doesn't matter how old the baptized is.

Because we are not saved by our beliefs, thoughts, feelings, our deeds--not by anything we do--but by the Grace of God, on account of what Christ has done.

Salvation comes from God alone.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Butterball1]

Our Lord said to not forbid little children to Him. It is God who is at work in Baptism, not man; it is by grace alone that we are saved, through faith, and this is not of ourselves, it is God's gift.

God works through His Means of Grace. And so biblically, the baptized are regenerated, and it doesn't matter how old the baptized is.

Because we are not saved by our beliefs, thoughts, feelings, our deeds--not by anything we do--but by the Grace of God, on account of what Christ has done.

Salvation comes from God alone.

-CryptoLutheran

The Lord said nothing about little children coming to him to be baptized or little children in need of being baptized.

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
I agree with you that God is the One doing the work/operation of removing the body of sin when one is baptized. But God does this only for those who are believers, choosing for themslves to submit to baptism and have a body of sin that needs to be removed.

 

[zoidar]

The new birth only takes place at the point of water baptism.

The robber on the cross then that repented and got saved?

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Lord said nothing about little children coming to him to be baptized or little children in need of being baptized.

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
I agree with you that God is the One doing the work/operation of removing the body of sin when one is baptized. But God does this only for those who are believers, choosing for themslves to submit to baptism and have a body of sin that needs to be removed.

Where do the Scriptures teach that "God does this only for those who are believers, choosing for themselves to submit to baptism"?

Answer: They don't.

Did you also notice that in Colossians 2 the Apostle St. Paul writes that baptism is a circumcision made without hands we have received in Christ? Tell me, was one a member of the Covenant only when they became an adult and chose to become circumcised, or were the Jews commanded to circumcise their male offspring, who were just as much part of the Covenant people as anyone else?

God's people is not comprised solely of adults, the Christian Church has children. Our children are Christians, not because one is "born" Christian, but because our children receive the same thing we ourselves received--the righteousness of God given as pure gift by the grace of God through the same Means of Grace which He uses for us: Word and Sacrament.

We are not saved by our works, not even our "yes" to God. We are saved by God alone, by what He has done, working as He has said He would. So that on Christ's account alone, by God's grace alone, through faith we are saved and justified.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Mr. M]

1. What does it mean to be born again?
2. Is there any difference from the normal experience of baptism?
3. Are all Christians born again?

SCRIPTURES:
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
John 3:3-7

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 24 because

“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
25 But the word of the Lord endures forever.”
1 Peter 1:22-25

To be born from above is to receive from above.
It is not a one time event.
It is your daily bread.
John 6:33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.

 

[Davy]

The robber on the cross then that repented and got saved?

Yes, God has the Power to save even without water baptism, which is a no brainer. Yet His Son got baptized setting the example for us, and so should we.

 

[zoidar]

Yes, God has the Power to save even without water baptism, which is a no brainer. Yet His Son got baptized setting the example for us, and so should we.

Yes, but then he must have been born again, right?

 

[Davy]

Yes, but then he must have been born again, right?

Did Lord Jesus need to be 'born again', is that what you're asking?

John the Baptist didn't think so.

Matt 3:13-15
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized of Thee, and comest Thou to me?"
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, "Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness." Then he suffered Him.
KJV

 

[ViaCrucis]

This means man has a role in his own salvation therefore salvation/new birth is not monergistic....man has a role in his own new birth.....

"Calling on the name of the Lord" means doing what the Lord says to do (Luke 6:46). Therefore those men who do as the Lord says and are water baptized (born of water) (Mark 16:16) are the ones who become born again.

Perhaps if we stopped reading Romans 10 after Paul says this we could be excused for thinking this; but Paul continues.

How can anyone call on one whom they have not heard? How can anyone hear unless someone is sent to preach?

Therefore, St. Paul says, "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." (Romans 10:17).

No one can call on the name of the Lord except by faith.

Only believers can call on the name of the Lord for salvation.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[zoidar]

Did Lord Jesus need to be 'born again', is that what you're asking?

John the Baptist didn't think so.

Matt 3:13-15
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized of Thee, and comest Thou to me?"
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, "Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness." Then he suffered Him.
KJV

I just think you are completely misunderstanding what born again means.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

The robber on the cross then that repented and got saved?

He was literally crucified with Christ if you think about it. For example

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

And It does show examples of the forbiding water, or something hindering. For example John the baptist, when Jesus in Mat 3:1-14 came from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. John forbad him, (for what might appear to be at first obvious reasons) by John (who had the Holy Ghost from the womb Luke 1:15) saying to Jesus, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? I won't post the thing in its entirety but the Ethiopian for example, after Phillip preached Jesus to him he apparently understood that he should be baptized and was the first to say, to Phillip, in Acts 8:36 See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Philip adds he could if he believed (which follows, "believe and be baptized" as Jesus said) and so he was (nothing hindered him). And likewise again, concerning those who already had the Holy Ghost here Peter states it this way Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? So John (knew he had to be baptized by Christ who baptized with the Holy Ghost) and yet John had the Holy Ghost from the womb) these also believed (and had the Holy Ghost and were still encouraged to be baptized but it was the way Peter said it "can any man forbid water". So it appears someone or even certain circumstances can hinder, or forbid it. But the cool part about the thief on the cross (who is often referred to when speaking of the necessity of water baptism) is that he falls into the very category of one (even in the picture itself) as one baptized into his death Romans 6:3 because he is very literally on the cross beside Christ Roman 6:3 As one literally crucified with Christ. Yet at the same time he could literally be understood as one hindered, forbidden or prevented from water itself.

I just always thought, wow, thats pretty cool