SDA denomination predicts weakening of first amendment in the future

[BobRyan]

[Staff Edit]

[Staff Edit]

On the points raised, Secularism has been a big factor in shops being open in the US. And I'm not sure I got a position on that, because I have had to work some nontraditional jobs, working on weekends, working graveyard shift etc. so having lots of various times to both shop, and go to church is a good thing. So I guess, I would prefer the government stay out of things and let individual groups, shop owners do what they want to do without making laws to make people close shop on certain days. The Faithful, can usually find a way to squeeze their worship in one way or another.

Understood - that is the "pressure" (or at least some part of the pressure) that one might expect to favor the government stepping in and carving out a no-work-day. But event that "should not" go so far as to also demand that people work on the Bible Sabbath and not just limit itself to no-work-on-Sunday.

However if you look at some countries in the EU that are facing stringent economic measures - they actually demand a 6 day work week - so given Sunday as a day off - they are pretty close to saying people must work on the Bible Sabbath or they are not good patriotic citizens.

 

[DamianWarS]

As early as the 1860's Adventists were predicting a future crisis where America would downgrade the first admendment when it comes to protecting religious liberty.

I think the bible predicted it first.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
As early as the 1860's Adventists were predicting a future crisis where America would downgrade the first admendment when it comes to protecting religious liberty.

I think the bible predicted it first.

no doubt

 

[DamianWarS]

no doubt

So what's the big deal then? It's only been applied to an American context. Taking credit for something like this would seem to have the wrong focus and it would be better to point to the biblical prediction and simply say the SDA agrees with it rather than make it appear it is something never heard before. Christian religious freedoms will fall through out the world and the US is among those but for some reason there is an old lie that America is the new Israel and untouchable to corruption. Claims like this prey on those lies. The US will fall as the rest and if I would apply any biblical passage to them it would be the church of Laodecia.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I am curious if our resident SDA posters would be as opposed to making Saturday a national holiday as making Sunday a national holiday. Or if, just perhaps, this appeal to the First Amendment to the US Constitution is largely just a facade for furtherance of SDA religious propaganda.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I am curious if our resident SDA posters would be as opposed to making Saturday a national holiday as making Sunday a national holiday. Or if, just perhaps, this appeal to the First Amendment to the US Constitution is largely just a facade for furtherance of SDA religious propaganda.

-CryptoLutheran

We are not opposed to anything that will allow us to keep God's commandments. The national day of rest should be on God's Holy Sabbath, but that's not what's going to happen.

 

[Albion]

We are not opposed to anything that will allow us to keep God's commandments. The national day of rest should be on God's Holy Sabbath, but that's not what's going to happen.

Yes, but would you be as opposed to making Saturday a national holiday as making Sunday a national holiday?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, but would you be as opposed to making Saturday a national holiday as making Sunday a national holiday?

It's God's Sabbath. We can talk hypothetical all we want, but the national day of rest is not planned to be on God's Holy day.

 

[Albion]

So...no answer is going to be forthcoming?

 

[ViaCrucis]

We are not opposed to anything that will allow us to keep God's commandments. The national day of rest should be on God's Holy Sabbath, but that's not what's going to happen.

That's what I thought. This has nothing to do with the First Amendment. Thank you for the honesty.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That's what I thought. This has nothing to do with the First Amendment. Thank you for the honesty.

-CryptoLutheran

You misunderstood. I do not think government should allow or force anyone to worship or not worship regardless of the day. God gave us all free will and the government is not above God. If there was a national day of rest, Saturday should be the logical choice since that is God's Sabbath, His chosen day of rest not Sunday. Hope this clarifies for you. It's still a moot point because we all know the National day of rest will not be on Gods Sabbath.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You misunderstood. I do not think government should allow or force anyone to worship or not worship regardless of the day. God gave us all free will and the government is not above God. If there was a national day of rest, Saturday should be the logical choice since that is God's Sabbath, His chosen day of rest not Sunday. Hope this clarifies for you. It's still a moot point because we all know the National day of rest will not be on Gods Sabbath.

I don't think you know how the First Amendment works.

Also, this response only further demonstrates that this whole thread is disingenuous.

If you cared about the First Amendment and the US government not establishing religion, then it shouldn't matter whether the day is Sunday or Saturday.

The fact that you only care if it is Sunday, but if it is Saturday it's totally okay, only reveals the blatant hypocrisy going on here.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I don't think you know how the First Amendment works.

Also, this response only further demonstrates that this whole thread is disingenuous.

If you cared about the First Amendment and the US government not establishing religion, then it shouldn't matter whether the day is Sunday or Saturday.

The fact that you only care if it is Sunday, but if it is Saturday it's totally okay, only reveals the blatant hypocrisy going on here.

-CryptoLutheran

Did you not read what I said? Also I do not represent "the whole thread" . I said very clearly I do not think the government should be dictating any laws on religion Sunday or Saturday, that goes against our free will that God gave each of of us. You are free to believe as you wish though.

 

[ewq1938]

It's still a moot point because we all know the National day of rest will not be on Gods Sabbath.

There will never be a national day of rest. People are used to having two days off, and many people like to have different days off so there will never be a consensus to make one certain day a day of rest let alone a religious day of rest. When the AC comes, I'm sure he will want to be worshiped every day not on one day.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Did you not read what I said? Also I do not represent "the whole thread" . I said very clearly I do not think the government should be dictating any laws on religion Sunday or Saturday, that goes against our free will that God gave each of of us. You are free to believe as you wish though.

Then as a proponent of the separation between Church and State, as enshrined in the non-establishment clause of the First Amendment, I would expect you to be as opposed to Saturday becoming a national holiday as you would Sunday becoming a national holiday.

Can you tell me that you would oppose making the Sabbath a national holiday in the same way that you would oppose making Sunday a national holiday?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[tall73]

Then as a proponent of the separation between Church and State, as enshrined in the non-establishment clause of the First Amendment, I would expect you to be as opposed to Saturday becoming a national holiday as you would Sunday becoming a national holiday.

Can you tell me that you would oppose making the Sabbath a national holiday in the same way that you would oppose making Sunday a national holiday?

-CryptoLutheran

I am a former Adventist minister. While that particular poster was not the clearest initially on the subject, Adventists do not propose the government endorse Sabbath either.

They do a lot of work for religious liberty, even when they don't always agree with the person, because they often run into issues with it themselves in workplace Sabbath issues.

I disagree with Adventists theologically on some issues, but they are not for state sponsored or endorsed, or established religion.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I am a former Adventist minister. While that particular poster was not the clearest initially on the subject, Adventists do not propose the government endorse Sabbath either.

They do a lot of work for religious liberty, even when they don't always agree with the person, because they often run into issues with it themselves in workplace Sabbath issues.

I disagree with Adventists theologically on some issues, but they are not for state sponsored or endorsed, or established religion.

Perish the thought that someone or some religious group would decided to dedicate a day like Friday for worship. Hint, hint, Friday is the Sabbath for Muslims.

 

[BobRyan]

Christian religious freedoms will fall through out the world and the US is among those but for some reason there is an old lie that America is the new Israel and untouchable to corruption. Claims like this prey on those lies. .

I have never claimed that "America is the new Israel" or is "untouchable to corruption" not sure where you are getting that.

 

[BobRyan]

Then as a proponent of the separation between Church and State, as enshrined in the non-establishment clause of the First Amendment, I would expect you to be as opposed to Saturday becoming a national holiday as you would Sunday becoming a national holiday.

Indeed we all would expect that "I hope"

 

[BobRyan]

Perish the thought that someone or some religious group would decided to dedicate a day like Friday for worship. Hint, hint, Friday is the Sabbath for Muslims.

Presumably almost all denominations , monotheistic groups are doing that - but not using the state to hold a gun to everyone else's head to force them to comply with the worship practice of any one group on any specific day.