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SDA denomination predicts weakening of first amendment in the future

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by BobRyan, Mar 17, 2021.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    As early as the 1860's Adventists were predicting a future crisis where America would downgrade the first admendment when it comes to protecting religious liberty.

    Speaking of our republican form of government (as a republic)

    " Republicanism and Protestantism became the fundamental principles of the nation, the secret of its power and prosperity. Millions have sought its shores, and the United States has risen to a place among the most powerful nations of the earth. {HF 273.1}"

    " when she (our Protestant nation) shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with Spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and Republican (form of) government, ...then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan, and that the end is near."—5T451. {ChS 160.4}

    Thanks for sharing that.

    The eschatology we have does predict that in the future all Christian churches will unite (as in "cooperate") on the point that America needs federal legislation passed that calls for no work on Sunday similar to Senate Bill 2983 in the year 1888 that ultimately failed to pass at the federal level but is upheld at state levels and has faced first amendment challenges only to be upheld by the Supreme Court saying such no-work laws are not infringing on the first amendment.

    (some today are considering it just for the issue of climate change alone if you look in the news).

    But the issue that SDAs point to is not merely that such a legislation will not "allow work" on Sunday (which we could easily comply with) but that it will not tolerate worship services - full observance - of the Bible Sabbath on Friday/Saturday. At that point -- it is a "prediction" about what would happen in the future.

    Many who are not SDA have predicted that such a prediction as we have had since the 1860's - could never happen under any circumstances.

    They often say it can't happen because America is so firmly grounded in the religious liberty of the first amendment that the idea of closing down Christian churches nation wide for any reason - even for what would be viewed as a national emergency or health or civil unrest issue , even if it was just specific to a day of the week - is still unthinkable .

    Those who scoffed at such an idea as is predicted in SDA eschatology in the 1860's might view the year 2020 as a wake up call were they alive to see it. (food for thought). And those that think that the 1888 Senate Bill 2983 sort of thing could never have happened might want to read up on it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
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  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    first amendment to the constitution in the Bill of Rights

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    · In 1924 a New Jersey court invoked a 1798 blue law and found it illegal to play a phonograph or listen to the radio on Sunday because this was "music for the sake of merriment."

    · A Sunday-law "spy" peering into the privacy of a Baltimore home in 1926 and seeing a man pressing his pants on Sunday, reported the act and the man was brought into court and fined.

    · In Pennsylvania, the "Pittsburgh Sabbath Association" had the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra arrested for performing a concert on Sunday.

    · In Washington County, Virginia, in 1932, a deputy sheriff arrested two women--one a crippled mother who walked with crutches--for washing clothes in her home.

    ================================

    The Supreme Court of the United States held in its landmark case, McGowan v. Maryland (1961), that Maryland's blue laws violated neither the Free Exercise Clause nor the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.[34] It approved the state's blue law restricting commercial activities on Sunday, noting that while such laws originated to encourage attendance at Christian churches, the contemporary Maryland laws were intended to serve "to provide a uniform day of rest for all citizens" on a secular basis and to promote the secular values of "health, safety, recreation, and general well-being" through a common day of rest. That this day coincides with Christian Sabbath is not a bar to the state's secular goals; it neither reduces its effectiveness for secular purposes nor prevents adherents of other religions from observing their own holy days.[35]

    McGowan was but one of four Sunday closing cases decided together by the Court in May of 1961.

    · In Gallagher v. Crown Kosher Super Market of Mass., Inc.,[36] the Court ruled against a Kosher deli that closed on Saturday but was open on Sunday.
    · The other two cases were Braunfeld v. Brown, [37]
    · and Two Guys from Harrison vs. McGinley.[38][39]

    Chief Justice Earl Warren declared that "the State seeks to set one day apart from all others as a day of rest, repose, recreation and tranquility--a day which all members of the family and community have the opportunity to spend and enjoy together, a day on which there exists relative quiet and disassociation from the everyday intensity of commercial activities, a day on which people may visit friends and relative who are not available during working days."[2]
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
  4. The Transcendentian

    The Transcendentian Wise Guy

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    Already has happened. A lot.
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    There are other examples of stepping on the first amendment -- in the case of shutting down churches in different states "for the greater good". but notice that each and every time a nation/state has stepped in to reduce freedom and restrict liberty - it was always "for the greater good"

    =========================


    From: As Of 1st March "Sunday's" Will Be A Rest Day In Barbados • News784


    Sunday’s will be a rest day in Barbados as the country gears up for a phased reopening from Monday, March 1st 2021.
    • In an address to the nation last Thursday night, Prime Minister Mia Amor Mottley said the gradual reopening was the method Government had been advised to take.
    • The Prime Minister stated that supermarkets will open from Monday to Saturday, but there will be no commercial activity on Sundays in those establishments, hardware stores or any other store for the time being.
    • Gas stations, she added, will open on Sundays, but not their minimarts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
  6. Freth

    Freth Seventh-day Adventist

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    A quick Google news search for "Sunday rest" will yield a bunch of sports news articles related to players or teams resting on Sunday, which is nothing unusual.

    Keep scrolling and you will find that this phrase is used in various article titles as a part of a story that isn't necessarily championing Sunday rest or blue laws, but instead mentioning it in a roundabout way as a part of a story. It's as if they're trying to keep it on people's minds (programming).

    Interspersed between these two types of articles are legit calls for Sunday rest and blue laws. I just posted some of these links in another thread, which I found simply by flipping through 25 pages of Google news search results.
    This is just a small example. There is a long list of Sunday rest related media going back at least two decades, if you know where to look to find them.

    Also of interest:
    • 2014: The Protest is Over - Catholic Bishop calls for end to Protestantism and rejoining Catholic and Protestant together at KCM Minister's Conference. (Full video)
    • Laudato Si (see articles 71, 237) - Pope calls for Sunday rest "for nature and the poor".
    • The Green Sabbath Project calls for rest to save the climate on Friday, Saturday and/or Sunday.
    • During/after lockdowns, many were calling for Sunday rest to save the climate. Lockdowns also occurred on weekends in many countries. For some, Sunday was given special significance as a day of rest during those times.
    Articles not from my Google search:
    This is a half hour of work. Imagine how many news articles that could be found if you spent some time researching the subject.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  7. ewq1938

    ewq1938 It's easy to say anything but hard to say nothing. Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    There is nothing in the bible about the Saturday Sabbath being made illegal, or establishing Sunday as a Sabbath by law and certainly not in relation to the Great Tribulation or the Antichrist etc. This is really only a big deal in the SDA. Outside of it, no one really cares whether someone works on a Saturday or a Sunday. I see no reason why the AC would and the lack of it being prophesied tells me it's not going to be related to the Great Tribulation at all.

    What Christians will be facing in the Great Tribulation is religious persecution, the worship of a false god, people betraying you for your beliefs, Apostasies and the control of buying and selling by use of a mark of some form, and some Christians being killed.
     
  8. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member

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    End times is all tied up to Daniel and Revelations and it is about worship. God’s Sabbath is and will always be on the seventh day. Exodus 20:8-11 The primary day or worship was changed to the first day without any Biblical authority which is admitted by the RCC who changed it. They also proudly tell you if you’re worshipping on Sunday they want you to know you are obeying a Catholic commandment, not a commandment of God.

    Daniel 7:25 predicted He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

    The only time (every Saturday) that is also a law (the 4th commandment) is the Sabbath commandment, the true day of God’s worship.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  9. Freth

    Freth Seventh-day Adventist

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    If, in fact, Sunday worship is going to be enforced, then the majority of Christians will not be persecuted whatsoever, as they will be obeying the enforcement anyway; Sunday being the chosen day of worship for most Christian denominations.

    Worship is the central issue that determines whether you receive the mark of the beast or the Seal of God. The Sabbath is linked with Revelation 14:6-12 (the Three Angels' Messages) through the same language (Name, Title, Territory; God, Creator, Heaven and Earth), pointing to it being the Seal of God. It is even called a sign (mark) between God and His people. If the Sabbath is indeed the Seal of God, then the Christians that will be persecuted are those keeping the Sabbath. Also, note that Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 14:12 specifically call the saints those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

    The recent efforts to end Protestantism and bring Christians back into the fold of Catholicism is another warning sign. "Wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction."

    I wouldn't put all of my eggs in one basket, especially the big one. It would be prudent to keep an eye on these things.
     
  10. Freth

    Freth Seventh-day Adventist

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    As a continuation of my previous post, let's look at the language of the Three Angels' Messages.

    1. The first angel is the Gospel going to all people. This has been happening for some time and is about to be complete.

    Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.

    Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
    The first angel gives an urgent message, calling for all to fear God and give glory to Him, because time is short and judgment is taking place now. Him that made heaven, earth and the sea and the fountains of waters (and all that in them is). This is the same phrase found in the seventh day rest account of creation (Genesis 2:1-3) and the Sabbath commandment spoken by God to Moses (Exodus 20:8-11), which He wrote on stone tables with His own hand.

    The first angel is giving an urgent message to worshipon the Sabbath day—in the last days.

    2. The second angel warns us of spiritual Babylon.

    Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
    Spiritual Babylon is a false worship system. This system is the root of the problem and causes all nations to drink of the wine of her fornication. Just what worship system has permeated the earth and influenced the doctrines of countless Protestant denominations? Could it have something to do with instituting Sunday as a day of worship? Changing times and laws? (Daniel 7:25)

    Many Christians will say we're not in the end time. Jesus spoke of events in Matthew 24 that were shortly to happen after His crucifixion, but also spoke of events to happen between that time and the second coming (some repeating, as types). Only in our time have we seen most of the prophesied events and indicators come to fruition. Matthew 24, 2 Timothy 3, 2 Peter 3, 2 Thessalonians 2, Daniel, Revelation.

    3. The third angel's message warns of dire consequences for false worship.

    Revelation 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​

    This one struck me just now: The third angel mentions "no rest", as a punishment for false worship. Could "no rest" be a just punishment for not resting on the seventh day Sabbath?

    And the final statement, capping off the messages in clear, easy to understand language.

    Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.​

    The patience of the saints endure the tribulation, keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

    God doesn't come out and say, "You need to keep the Sabbath", because it's a foregone conclusion that has been evident since the creation of the world, when the Creator rested. Jesus mentions the Sabbath in Matthew 24:20-21—during the tribulation. Of course, this is a type. There was tribulation surrounding the abomination of desolation, the destruction of the temple. There will be tribulation in the last days.

    We can look at these and many other verses and come to some reasoned conclusions.
    • Scripture gives simple, easy to understand, urgent truths for our time.
    • Worship determines whether you receive the mark or the Seal.
    • God wants us to worship on the Sabbath.
    • The beginning of sorrows have all come forth in this generation and are increasing by the day. Natural disasters have intensified. Volcanic activity, earthquakes, floods, fires, drought, famine, pestilence, hurricanes, tornadoes, freak storms. Societal decay, as described in 2 Timothy 3.
    • The broad way is the way of the majority. The narrow way is the way that few find. This should be a warning sign to all Christians, that going along with a popular or instituted doctrine may not be the correct path.
    • Jesus doesn't mince words in Revelation 22. At the end of the book (that would become the last book of the Bible) Jesus is serious, to the point, authoritative and resigned... that whoever is filthy, let him be filthy still, whoever is righteous, let him be righteous still. This ties in with the parable of the ten virgins; a warning that at some point the door will close and it will be too late. Thank God that we still have a short time.
    If you're not paying attention, not looking, you won't see it coming. Already, we're seeing the groundwork laid for Sunday rest enforcement.

    What is about to happen? The tribulation will begin, things will get much worse and people will cry out to God for mercy. In an effort to appease the wrath of God, the people will beg for a Sunday rest (many already are), which will then be enforced, but it will be for nought. The tribulation will continue and the people will eventually be cut off, because they have chosen their path. Sabbath keepers will be blamed for causing God's wrath, because they will not be adhering to Sunday rest. This will bring persecution upon Sabbath keepers. God's angels will protect the faithful who keep His commandments. Jesus will come and all will know the truth.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    The OP simply points to the downgrade of the first amendment and its religious liberty protections as well as downgrading our republican form of government (as a republic)

    My other posts are just historic facts showing the clash between Sunday legislation in the past and the first amendment.

    The Bible points to something that opposes the Law of God arising in the future.
     
  12. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    [Staff Edit]

    The SDA has been predicting a ban on Saturday worship for over a century, when in fact a ban on Sunday worship looks more likely, due to the growth of Shariah law and Islam. Even where there is not a ban, the Islamic lifestyle requires Christian expats to worship on Friday even in tolerant countries like Oman, where Ibadi Islam, and not Sunni or Shia Islam, is practiced. [Staff Edit]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2021
  13. Freth

    Freth Seventh-day Adventist

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    [Staff Edit]

    Shariah law isn't mentioned as an issue in scripture. The descriptors don't match Islamic beliefs. Shariah law hasn't been headline news for a long time, but Sunday rest has been quite prevalent in the news, even in the pope's encyclicals. The virus brought it forth in a big way and it has been a constant. Shariah law is nowhere to be found by comparison.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2021
  14. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    [Staff Edit]


    On the points raised, Secularism has been a big factor in shops being open in the US. And I'm not sure I got a position on that, because I have had to work some nontraditional jobs, working on weekends, working graveyard shift etc. so having lots of various times to both shop, and go to church is a good thing. So I guess, I would prefer the government stay out of things and let individual groups, shop owners do what they want to do without making laws to make people close shop on certain days. The Faithful, can usually find a way to squeeze their worship in one way or another.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2021
  15. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    Blue laws have been going away for decades. Only a few states down south still have them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2021
  16. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    Yeah I moved from NC, after living in California all my life. I was really surprised at laws like not selling alcohol until noon on Sunday etc. Which I think, PA also has.


    [Staff Edit]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2021
  17. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member

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    Sunday keepers will be protected from this law, its about the seventh-day Sabbath keeper, God's true Sabbath. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sunday Law passed in Europe within the next year or two. I know the pope is working with EU currently on implementing a national rest day that won't be on God's day of rest. It will be introduced as a law for the environment but will turn into a persecuting law for Sabbath keepers. The US is lined up to be on board, but I think Europe will implement it first.
     
  18. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    I will have to look into this bill you folks are fretting about, but I kind of find myself doubting things. The same social norms that makes people want to golf, and "live for the weekend" will help you folks do your Saturday worship.

    And FYI, Sunday keepers are not really protected by the Law because Sunday church goers also like shop, eat at restaurants etc. right after church meaning some folks will be mandated to keep those businesses open then. And as I've said before I have worked lots of jobs with nontraditional work schedules, working on weekends, working overnight when folks are sleeping etc. So no I'm use to be at odds with the rest of society and its schedule. It has it pluses and minuses. Since I hate traffic and crowded shopping it largely was a plus.
     
  19. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member

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    It hasn't happened yet, but it will, Keep your eye on it. Yes, it will affect many business that are open on Sunday, but I think it will just be another new norm.

    God bless
     
  20. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    lol I'm skeptical.

    Even if they mandate shops and restaurants being closed their are plenty of things that need to kept going 24 x7. The power grid and utilities, Criminals stealing and misbehaving, armies, enemy bombers and ships invading, broken water pipes, internet servers, roads etc.

    Problems do not go away or take a sabbath rest just because someone writes legislation to say that there should be no work done on X day. And if anyone is foolish to do that and enforce it, then God help us all!
     
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