What are the signs of a saved person?

[The Liturgist]

Salvation is a process, which takes place over our entire life, rather than a single transformative event like becoming aware of one’s sins and desiring repentance, or recognizing the truth of Christianity, or receiving the Holy Spirit, all of which are necessary for those who were not baptized as a child, or were, but later fell away, giving in to worldly temptations. But those events occur in the long process of salvation, which only ends if one is judged among the righteous by Christ Pantocrator.

 

[Nathan@work]

True and people with the fruit of the Holy Spirit will also obey.

Yes they will. If your not obeying the Spirit then your grieving Him.

I believe that those who are doing that know it.

 

[anna ~ grace]

This is a good question, and one that every denomination and multiple Christians will answer differently.

I don’t really view salvation as a before and after event anymore; it’s more of a journey, something you can grow into, keep walking out, and keep going in. He has saved us, He is saving us, and He will save us. But this takes faith and humility and a willingness to grow and to obey on our part. It also involves discipleship, which involves works.

Answering this question can be difficult. I am thinking now of apparently holy, pious, prayerful, humble, fruitful men who certainly seemed and sounded “saved”, and yet who privately abused and used people. Sometimes we can’t tell.

 

[Soyeong]

In your opinions, what are the signs of somebody who possesses the Holy Spirit and therefore is saved?

Aside from an actual revelation from Jesus giving you the Holy Spirit, how would you know you possess it? I have my answers but I'm curious on yours.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God, so obedience to the Mosaic Law is a sign that someone possesses the Holy Spirit. Likewise, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what the Mosaic Law was given to instruct how to do, so God graciously teaching us to obey the Mosaic Law is itself part of the content of His free gift of salvation. Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in what it looks like to believe in what Jesus accomplished on the cross (Acts 21:20). Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of the Mosaic Law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to the Mosaic Law through faith is what it looks like to receive the gift of Jesus saving us from living in transgression of the Mosaic Law.

 

[Soyeong]

There are no outward signs, to be able to tell if a person has believed in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Following the ‘law’ is not a sign of salvation. The ‘law’ is a sign for those without salvation.

The reason it cannot be a sign is because you, I, and the other person are imperfect and Gods laws are perfect. We will always interpret them imperfectly.

People who are ‘saved’ have the Spirit. They are led by the Spirit. So if you want a sign of being saved then you look for signs that only the Spirit produces.

Anyone can pretend to be saved. Many try and convince themselves by the things they do. That is because deep down those who do not have the Spirit know that something is missing.

In Romans 6:19-23, no longer presenting ourselves as slaves of impurity, lawlessness, and sin is contrasted with now presenting ourselves as salves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, which is the gift of God. Likewise, in Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that if we want to enter eternal life, then obey the commandments. So the way that we present ourselves as either being a slave to God or to sin is a sign of whether we have received the gift of eternal life. Obedience is itself part of the content of the gift of salvation. Furthermore, in Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to obey His laws for how to do that is again itself part of the content God's gift of salvation, and our obedience to God's laws is a sign that we have received that gift.

There has never been a need for us to live in perfect obedience to God's law in order to earn our salvation because it was never given as a means of doing that. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, so that is a sign that the Spirit produces.

 

[Nathan@work]

In Romans 6:19-23, no longer presenting ourselves as slaves of impurity, lawlessness, and sin is contrasted with now presenting ourselves as salves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, which is the gift of God. Likewise, in Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that if we want to enter eternal life, then obey the commandments. So the way that we present ourselves as either being a slave to God or to sin is a sign of whether we have received the gift of eternal life. Obedience is itself part of the content of the gift of salvation. Furthermore, in Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to obey His laws for how to do that is again itself part of the content God's gift of salvation, and our obedience to God's laws is a sign that we have received that gift.

I disagree.

If obedience to Gods laws is the sign of His gift then anytime someone sins they will question if they have His Spirit or not.

What that does is put focus on our ability rather than God. People begin to make a god out of laws. They worship the creation and not the creator. I’ve seen this a lot.

 

[chad kincham]

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. [...] Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."

- Galatians 5:22-24

Yes, and Peter wrote that we must add to our faith the things he lists, to make our calling and election sure, so we don’t fall - and states that if you add those listed things to your faith, you won’t be unfruitful, which is the long way around to say, you’re bearing fruit.

Bearing fruit is not an option for a believer, as Jesus warns that He is the vine, we are the branches, and any branch that does not bear fruit is cut off and ends up in the fire.

 

[chad kincham]

Grace is not a license to sin, ... but grace forgives all sin.

Those who access God's grace to forgive have a changed heart, but as did Paul, struggle with their flesh in their efforts to not sin ...

Romans 7

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me.

22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;

23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.

24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?

25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

You just cited half a passage, because Romans 8 is an integral part of that, where following God’s spirit is the solution, and Paul warns that if you keep living after the flesh, you will die. That means spiritually dead.

 

[Soyeong]

I disagree.

If obedience to Gods laws is the sign of His gift then anytime someone sins they will question if they have His Spirit or not.

What that does is put focus on our ability rather than God. People begin to make a god out of laws. They worship the creation and not the creator. I’ve seen this a lot.

Grace is a gift, so God being gracious to us by teaching us how to do what is godly means that the teaching itself is the content of the gift and following that teaching is a sign of receiving it. This doesn't mean that there can't be false positives or negatives, but generally speaking, someone's behavior does indicate whether or not they have received that gift, along with whether they repent after they have sinned. If the behavior of someone who has received the gift of being trained to do what is godly is no different from that of someone who has not received that gift, then the gift would be worthless.

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so our obedience to is is about depending on God to rightly guide us, not about what we can accomplish through our own ability. God's nature is eternal, so God's laws for how to testify about His nature are also eternal (Psalms 119:160), so they are created. God's laws were given to teach us how to worship Him, so it would be absurd to think that we can worship God's laws instead of Him.

 

[Soyeong]

Then how can Paul say "Not of works" ?

Our salvation is in Christ ... not our works/actions ...

Works can be done for reasons other than trying to earn our salvation, so the fact that we do not earn our salvation by our works does not mean that our salvation does not require works for some other reason, such as faith. This is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified while denying in Romans 4:4-5 that our justification is something that can be earned. Doing good works is an inherent part of Jesus saving us from not doing good works.

 

[Nathan@work]

Grace is a gift, so God being gracious to us by teaching us how to do what is godly means that the teaching itself is the content of the gift and following that teaching is a sign of receiving it. This doesn't mean that there can't be false positives or negatives, but generally speaking, someone's behavior does indicate whether or not they have received that gift, along with whether they repent after they have sinned. If the behavior of someone who has received the gift of being trained to do what is godly is no different from that of someone who has not received that gift, then the gift would be worthless.

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so our obedience to is is about depending on God to rightly guide us, not about what we can accomplish through our own ability. God's nature is eternal, so God's laws for how to testify about His nature are also eternal (Psalms 119:160), so they are created. God's laws were given to teach us how to worship Him, so it would be absurd to think that we can worship God's laws instead of Him.

There is, and always will be, a definite difference between the person who has Faith and those without. There is no doubt about that.

That difference cannot be judged by another’s interpretation of our obedience. Otherwise we are constantly looking to others for approval or disapproval.

The one thing that unites all is love for each other. That, in and of itself, is the one thing that will be the same regardless of anything else external.

 

[coffee4u]

the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, so that is a sign that the Spirit produces.

We are not led to obey the Mosaic law for if we were them we would be sacrificing lambs and bulls, not wearing two types of cloth, not muzzling our ox while treading the grain and so on and so forth.
We are not under those laws nor can we keep them even if we wanted to.

We are under the New Testament which is summed up easily into two.
7 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

 

[Soyeong]

There is, and always will be, a definite difference between the person who has Faith and those without. There is no doubt about that.

That difference cannot be judged by another’s interpretation of our obedience. Otherwise we are constantly looking to others for approval or disapproval.

The one thing that unites all is love for each other. That, in and of itself, is the one thing that will be the same regardless of anything else external.

What do you consider to be the difference if there isn't a discernable difference in behavior? In James 2:17-18, he said that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works, so if someone was looking at James and trying to deduce whether or not he was someone who had faith, then they would do so by looking at his works. It's God who knows our hearts, but we can still look at someone's works as an indication of whether or not they have faith.

 

[Soyeong]

We are not led to obey the Mosaic law for if we were them we would be sacrificing lambs and bulls, not wearing two types of cloth, not muzzling our ox while treading the grain and so on and so forth.
We are not under those laws nor can we keep them even if we wanted to.

We are under the New Testament which is summed up easily into two.
7 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). So we can look at his example and decide whether or not to become his followers, but we can't follow him while refusing to follow his example.

All of the laws that God has given as examples of what it looks like to love Him and our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so they are all connected. For example, obedience to the command to help the poor looks like obedience to the command love our neighbor, so the greatest two commandments don't replace the other commandments, but rather they are the essence of them. The sum is the composition of all of its parts, so if someone's obedience to the greatest two commandments does not look like obedience to God's other commandments, then they are not treating them as being the sum of the other commandments.

 

[Nathan@work]

What do you consider to be the difference if there isn't a discernable difference in behavior? In James 2:17-18, he said that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works, so if someone was looking at James and trying to deduce whether or not he was someone who had faith, then they would do so by looking at his works. It's God who knows our hearts, but we can still look at someone's works as an indication of whether or not they have faith.

Love, that is the difference. Love will show our faith. It does nothing wrong.

James example would be shown in works of love.

The beauty of love is not only is it obvious to other believers, it is obvious to unbelievers as well. Unbeliever simply don’t understand it is the only difference - but they can see it.

 

[atpollard]

In your opinions, what are the signs of somebody who possesses the Holy Spirit and therefore is saved?

Walking on water is always a dead give away.

 

[coffee4u]

Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). So we can look at his example and decide whether or not to become his followers, but we can't follow him while refusing to follow his example.

All of the laws that God has given as examples of what it looks like to love Him and our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so they are all connected. For example, obedience to the command to help the poor looks like obedience to the command love our neighbor, so the greatest two commandments don't replace the other commandments, but rather they are the essence of them. The sum is the composition of all of its parts, so if someone's obedience to the greatest two commandments does not look like obedience to God's other commandments, then they are not treating them as being the sum of the other commandments.

You didn't answer my question, do you follow the Mosaic law or not?
"the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law"
If you believe the Spirit is leading you to obey the Mosaic law then you must surely follow the entirety of the Torah, yes?
So along with the Ten Commandments you keep or try to keep every single law.
So you believe in taking a pair of doves to the temple for a sacrifice, not mixing cloth, not muzzling your ox and so on all through each and every law.

If this is not what you mean then you are not keeping the Mosaic law.

 

[John Mullally]

One of the signs of God's people is hallow His Sabbath (4th commandment)

In Acts 15 the apostles and elders came together to addresses the set of OT commandments that were to be placed on Gentile believers. The result of that conference is the letter addressed to Gentile believers in Acts 15:23-29 NKJV - termed the Jerusalem Doctrine. Hallowing the Sabbath did not make the list.

Acts 15:23 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.​

 

[fhansen]

In your opinions, what are the signs of somebody who possesses the Holy Spirit and therefore is saved?

Aside from an actual revelation from Jesus giving you the Holy Spirit, how would you know you possess it? I have my answers but I'm curious on yours.

Love and it’s fruits

 

[Soyeong]

You didn't answer my question, do you follow the Mosaic law or not?
"the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law"
If you believe the Spirit is leading you to obey the Mosaic law then you must surely follow the entirety of the Torah, yes?
So along with the Ten Commandments you keep or try to keep every single law.
So you believe in taking a pair of doves to the temple for a sacrifice, not mixing cloth, not muzzling your ox and so on all through each and every law.

If this is not what you mean then you are not keeping the Mosaic law.

Sorry, I didn't see where you asked that question, but yes, I follow the Mosaic Law. Even when the law was first given to Moses, there was not a single person who was required to keep every single law, and not even Jesus kept the laws in regard to having a period or giving birth. Some laws were only for the King, the High Priest, priests, judges, men, women, children, widows, those who are married, those who have servants, those who have animals, those who have crops, those who have tzaraat, those living in the land, and those who are strangers living among them, while others were given to everyone. If someone is not a woman, then they are not required to follow the laws that have that as a condition, and the same is true if someone does not own an ox. A good portion of the laws was given to govern the conduct of the priests.

So understanding how to law applies to us today is a matter of careful study, prayer, and leading of the Spirit. However, if we believe that God's law was given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), then we will have have the attitude of looking for reasons why we have the delight of getting to obey God's laws rather than the attitude of looking for reasons to avoid following God's guidance.