What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

[Valletta]

He lost followers because they couldn't get it. They thought literally and it made no sense, because Jesus didn't mean it literally. He meant for people to live by His words the way you live by eating and drinking.
It was always "follow me" not eat me.
The followers literally said "this is a hard saying, who can hear it?" IE "I don't get it, does anyone know what He's talking about?"

God commands against drinking of blood. God will never command you to sin against His own commandments. That's inconsistent with His own word and His own laws, That's not God brother.

the Eucharist is a symbol of His death for our sins, we eat to the memory that Jesus' body was broken and His blood spilled for our sins.
Baptism is a symbol of His burial and resurrection that defeats death and takes away the punishment for our sin.
It's not sacraments that save it's the man Himself Jesus Christ that saves.
The church has turned it into a magic show.

God is not a magician.
John 6:55-56
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
1 Cor 10:16
The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

 

[East of Eden]

What idolatry? And can you prove we worship Mary?

"In the Catholic Church, the veneration of Mary, mother of Jesus, encompasses various Marian devotions which include prayer, pious acts, visual arts, poetry, and music devoted to the Blessed Virgin Mary." Wikipedia

Mary can't hear your prayers, like the rest of us, she was a sinner in need of Christ's redemption. The Bible also says she gave birth to other children, contrary to RCC doctrine. Yes, she was a good example, would that we all had her attitude, "I am the Lord's servant, may it be to me as you have said."

Or do we give her honor as most blessed among women? As for common objects being used for prayers, or pagans lighting candles, there is no issue or error.

There was a recent movement to have Mary declared 'co-redemtrix', rediculous.

There is a book you should check out. It's called "The Apostasy that Wasn't".

And you should read 'Roman Catholicism' by Boettner.

It recounts how men and women chose to die for their faith rather than water it down or change it, or denounce it.

Islamic Jihadists do that regularly, it doesn't mean their beliefs are true.

 

[Valletta]

"In the Catholic Church, the veneration of Mary, mother of Jesus, encompasses various Marian devotions which include prayer, pious acts, visual arts, poetry, and music devoted to the Blessed Virgin Mary." Wikipedia

Mary can't hear your prayers, like the rest of us, she was a sinner in need of Christ's redemption. The Bible also says she gave birth to other children, contrary to RCC doctrine. Yes, she was a good example, would that we all had her attitude, "I am the Lord's servant, may it be to me as you have said."



There was a recent movement to have Mary declared 'co-redemtrix', rediculous.



And you should read 'Roman Catholicism' by Boettner.



Islamic Jihadists do that regularly, it doesn't mean their beliefs are true.

Mary never sinned. Save your accusations for your Judgment Day, then you can tell Our Lord all of the sins you say Mary supposedly committed. Those in Heaven are alive, not dead. Catholics believe that all generations are to call her blessed.
Mary had no other children, you are misinterpreting the Bible.

 

[East of Eden]

Mary never sinned.

Bunk. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Romans 3:10 'as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”

Those in Heaven are alive, not dead.

Who said they were dead?

Mary had no other children, you are misinterpreting the Bible.

Nonsense, see The Bible seems to suggest that Mary had other children | carm.org

The Jewish historian Josephus mentions James, the brother of Jesus.

"In the 3rd century, biological relatives with a connection to the nuclear family of Jesus, without explicit reference to brothers or sisters, were called the desposyni,[7] from the Greek δεσπόσυνοι, plural of δεσπόσυνος, meaning "of or belonging to the master or lord".[8] The term was used by Sextus Julius Africanus, a writer of the early 3rd century." Wikipedia

The etymology of the Greek word for "brother" (adelphos) is “of the same womb,” a-delphys.

 

[Valletta]

Bunk. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Romans 3:10 'as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”



Who said they were dead?



Nonsense, see The Bible seems to suggest that Mary had other children | carm.org

The Jewish historian Josephus mentions James, the brother of Jesus.

"In the 3rd century, biological relatives with a connection to the nuclear family of Jesus, without explicit reference to brothers or sisters, were called the desposyni,[7] from the Greek δεσπόσυνοι, plural of δεσπόσυνος, meaning "of or belonging to the master or lord".[8] The term was used by Sextus Julius Africanus, a writer of the early 3rd century." Wikipedia

The etymology of the Greek word for "brother" (adelphos) is “of the same womb,” a-delphys.

Do you believe Jesus sinned? Do you believe a newborn infant sinned? How about seriously retarded adults? Either "all" refers to every person or it does not. Only if Jesus sinned and newborn infants sinned and seriously retarded adults sinned does your argument hold up.
As to "adelphos" it is used elsewhere in the Bible referring to a relative.

 

[East of Eden]

Do you believe Jesus sinned? Do you believe a newborn infant sinned? How about seriously retarded adults? Either "all" refers to every person or it does not. Only if Jesus sinned and newborn infants sinned and seriously retarded adults sinned does your argument hold up.
As to "adelphos" it is used elsewhere in the Bible referring to a relative.

Which doesn't mean it means that here. Was Mary an infant or seriously retarded adult?

 

[Abide with me.]

If Jesus comes tomorrow it would be truly terrifying for the vast majority of us! The Bible paints an apocalyptic account of this, and even if we are graced by God's salvation personally, our nearest and dearest might get cast down and burnt like weeds.

 

[Valletta]

Which doesn't mean it means that here. Was Mary an infant or seriously retarded adult?

"All" either literally means every person or it does not. Your sidestepping leads me to believe you now realize it does not. Nor was the passage you quote in the middle of text discussing our Blessed Mother.

 

[Jamdoc]

I beg to differ. Worship requires sacrifice and adoration. If either is absent, it is veneration and is theologically equivalent to hugging someone.

Cornelius didn't do any sacrifices, Peter told Him to get up and stop worshiping him.
the angel in Revelation told John the same thing. All they did is kneel/fall down on their face to offer worship.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Jesus gave every believer the keys to the kingdom.

“Verily I say unto you, [all believers] Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 18:18)

READ the context of this verse.

Nope! HE was specifically speaking to Peter.

 

[Jamdoc]

God is not a magician.
John 6:55-56
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
1 Cor 10:16
The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

Keep going in John 6 to verse 63...

 

[East of Eden]

"All" either literally means every person or it does not.

It means all, see Psalm 51:5, which records king David saying, “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin my mother conceived me.”

If you don't believe infants are born into original sin, why do you baptize infants? The question of whether God in His mercy will Judge infants or the mentally retarded differently is another question.

Your sidestepping leads me to believe you now realize it does not.

No sidestepping (again, speaking of which, was Mary an infant or mentally retarded?) and your conclusion would be wrong.

 

[East of Eden]

Nope! HE was specifically speaking to Peter.

So it has nothing to do with the current pope, right?

See What are the keys of the kingdom? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Valletta]

So it has nothing to do with the current pope, right?

See What are the keys of the kingdom? | GotQuestions.org

It would have been hard for Jews of the time who knew their Holy Scripture to miss what the website writer apparently missed. Jesus used words that paralleled Isaiah 22 when Jesus renamed Simon as Rock and gave Rock the keys to the kingdom. In the Davidic kingdom spoken of in Isaiah, the keys to the kingdom are given to the prime minister by the king as a sign of authority. When the king is absent the prime minister has full authority. Also detailed in Isaiah, when the office of prime minister becomes vacant a new prime minster is chosen. Starting with Solomon, the mother of the king, not the wife, but the mother of the king is the queen of the kingdom. You also see the queen making a request of the king. As the queen in Heaven our Blessed Mother makes requests of Jesus on our behalf.

 

[Root of Jesse]

He lost followers because they couldn't get it. They thought literally and it made no sense, because Jesus didn't mean it literally. He meant for people to live by His words the way you live by eating and drinking.
It was always "follow me" not eat me.
The followers literally said "this is a hard saying, who can hear it?" IE "I don't get it, does anyone know what He's talking about?"

Wouldn't Jesus realize that and clarify? But he didn't. He doubled down.

God commands against drinking of blood. God will never command you to sin against His own commandments. That's inconsistent with His own word and His own laws, That's not God brother.

Human blood, I agree with you. But Jesus' blood wasn't human.

the Eucharist is a symbol of His death for our sins, we eat to the memory that Jesus' body was broken and His blood spilled for our sins.

Then be free! Don't do what he said. That's the point of this thread. What if Jesus meant what he said? You say he didn't. OK. Bye!

Baptism is a symbol of His burial and resurrection that defeats death and takes away the punishment for our sin.

Actually, "Baptism now saves you." 1 Peter 3

It's not sacraments that save it's the man Himself Jesus Christ that saves.
The church has turned it into a magic show.

You got that right! It's Jesus doing it, actually the Holy Spirit. Not the one pouring the water or doing the dunking.

 

[Root of Jesse]

So it has nothing to do with the current pope, right?

See What are the keys of the kingdom? | GotQuestions.org

Apostolic succession, as shown by Paul to Timothy and Titus, and the Apostles to Matthias.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Islam has martyrs too. It proves nothing

You mean the ones committing suicide? That's not martyrdom.

 

[Root of Jesse]

He opened the flood gates to the visible institutional churches for the unsaved masses. It's all part of God forming Antichrist's kingdom according to prophecy.

No he didn't. @The Liturgist knows his history.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I think it was always small but grew into a mass of false believers after Constantine. Tares instead of true believers.

Why would people become martyrs for something false? Sorry, it wasn't small. Constantine saw the writing on the wall-the Church was bigger than he thought, he had a vision and a conversion, and legalized Christianity.

 

[East of Eden]

You mean the ones committing suicide? That's not martyrdom.

It is to them. As I said before, dying for a belief does nothing to prove it's truth.