Calvinism and Abortion

[ICONO'CLAST]

And from that you draw the conclusion that there are some people, the ones Christ didn't die for (according to you), who can't be saved?

As I asked you earlier and which you didn't answer, is there anyway of knowing if you're one of the lucky ones, the Elect, who Christ did die for, or one of the unfortunates whi Christ didn't die for? Do they have any distinguishing features for example?

Everyone believing by God given faithjn3:15-16,2pet1:3-11

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Right, and if God is just, He will not punish babies because they are incapable of being aware of any form of right and wrong in order to sin. Yes, their bodies are tainted by the sin of Adam, but Jesus reversed the curse so that they would not face the second death. Babies are not aware of any law; And the Scriptures say that sin is not imputed where there is no law.

Any person including babies are guilty, and it is only grace and mercy that anyone is saved.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Not at all. I was just asking you a simple question and hoping for a simple answer which I still haven't got. I was asking if it was your conclusion.

Let me ask it again. You say that Christ did not die for all people. Obviously that's not scriptural but, playing along, my question is Does that mean that the people who Christ didn't die for can't be saved?

I don't understand sure you are so reluctant to give a simple Yes or No answer to this

Everyone limits the atonement.
There is no redemption for fallen Angel's.
There is no redemption for those who remain in Adam.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Thank God the opposite is true! The innocent are saved.

No one is innocent rom3:23.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

God loves all people doesn’t he? Or is that just a myth or something that is totally illogical and thrown in to the empty bin along the way side?

God has a saving love only for those He has elected.
That love is only found in Christ,rom5,rom8.
To be outside of Christ is to be outside of that saving love.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Thankfully my experiences of God have also been that He is trustworthy and loving. And look at Jesus in the Bible. He never hated anyone. He loved everyone, even those who hung him on the cross. He "hated" sin because He loved us.

When I look at the some of the descriptions given of God above I feel humble and very thankful that my own experience has been so different.

Did He love the world of the ungodly that was destroyed by the flood.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

God loves every one He has made.
Each person can either accept or reject Jesus, that does not change whether God loves them or not - God loves them for God is Love.
He is not willing that any should persish.
But He is a just God, and as such if a person rejects Jesus there are consequences to that. But Gods love for a person who rejects Him, His creation does not change, He still loves them, He doesnt love their behaviour of rejecting Him, but the person He loves, always has, always will. God showed His love for us by sending His Son to die for sinners. Such love.

Taking 2 Pet .3:9 out of context does not prove your false idea.
God does not cast sinners choices into hell, the sinner is cast into hell without mercy.Your statements are defective biblically.
Heb10.26-31.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

The Bible tells us that God is loving and just. Therefore He does not send aborted babies to Hell.

God does what is Holy and just always.
Rev.19:1-2

 

[Yesha]

The Bible tells us that God is loving and just. Therefore He does not send aborted babies to Hell.

I agree with the first statement, but I am not sure how the second necessarily follows unless one denies original sin.

 

[mlepfitjw]

God has a saving love only for those He has elected.
That love is only found in Christ,rom5,rom8.
To be outside of Christ is to be outside of that saving love.

Using the bible can we see who the elect are for example say the 12 tribes of Israel?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Any person including babies are guilty, and it is only grace and mercy that anyone is saved.

“But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.” (Luke 18:16).

While I believe that if Jesus did not go to the cross and was not risen, we would all perish. But I believe because God loves us so much, such a possibility would have never happened. For God so loved the world. I imagine if we truly knew the depths of God it would bring us all to crumble before Him. So the love of God compelled the Son to die for us and to raise three days later to save mankind. Yes, I believe babies have the stain of sin upon their bodies from Adam, but Jesus reversed the curse of the sin of Adam because of His resurrection. Seeing this is the case, to say that babies who do not have the capacity to know of any good or evil are to be punished is monstrous at best. But then again, we are living in the last days.

 

[zoidar]

How do you prove elect babies are not born again in the womb?

I can't, but the Bible speaks of no such thing (except if use the one possible exception, John the baptist). Is it not more of something for you to prove they are?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

No one is innocent rom3:23.

The unborn have not sinned.

 

[zoidar]

No...God has elected a multitude to be saved,before the world was.
Jer.1:5,2tim1:9

Nothing I wrote was an argument against that.

 

[Yesha]

I realize that my position will not be liked here, but I am okay with that. Don't really care what you all think, to be honest. The older I get, the less I care about what people think of me.

I am pro-choice, that will not change.

Jesus said in John 14:15: "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." We who profess saving faith show that we truly love God when we strive to obey his law. While no man has the right to bind your conscience, the Word of God does have that right and it plainly states, "You shall not murder" (Ex. 20:13). Furthermore, the Word tells us that loving God and neighbor are inseparably linked.

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” - Matt. 22:36-40 (ESV)​

Complicity or indifference to acts of evil on grounds of "choice" is an unloving response to the sin we are called to hate and fails to demonstrate love for God and neighbor. I pray that these words, spoken in love, even if they sting, will urge you to rethink the basis of your position and move you toward a Biblical foundation for justice.

 

[Dave L]

I can't, but the Bible speaks of no such thing (except if use the one possible exception, John the baptist). Is it not more of something for you to prove they are?

Are the unborn people? Were some of their names written in the book of life before the creation of the world? People who trust in works for salvation have trouble with this because it proves salvation does not need anything from the saved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree with the first statement, but I am not sure how the second necessarily follows unless one denies original sin.

I agree with Original Sin, but I don't think our definitions are the same. I believe the Promise of the Savior, and His coming reversed the curse of Original Sin in regards to the Savior being able to save mankind. For Jesus is the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world. The damage of Original Sin is that the physical bodies of mankind is tainted by sin. Man has an inclination to do that which is evil by his flesh. So man is tainted by sin, but with the Son of God, they can crucify the affections and lusts (i.e. they can put away mortal sin out of their lives by the power of Jesus).

 

[zoidar]

All elect infants,dying in infancy are saved by God.

Who, why, what is an elect baby???

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Are the unborn people? Were some of their names written in the book of life before the creation of the world? People who trust in works for salvation have trouble with this because it proves salvation does not need anything from the saved.

Everyone believes in works salvation to some degree. 1 John 3:23 says that to believe in Jesus is a commandments. Commandments are laws that in many cases involves action or works. John 6:29 says that work of God is to believe in Him in whom He sent. Also, most who deny that one has to live holy (or enter the Sanctification Process) as a part of salvation must admit that they can sin and still be saved. For what is the opposite of living holy? Doing evil or evil works. So many today believe that one is saved by believing in Jesus + doing evil works. There are only two choices. Believe in Jesus + doing good works, OR Believe in Jesus + doing evil works. Choose wisely.

 

[Dave L]

I agree with Original Sin, but I don't think our definitions are the same. I believe the Promise of the Savior, and His coming reversed the curse of Original Sin in regards to the Savior being able to save mankind. For Jesus is the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world. The damage of Original Sin is that the physical bodies of mankind is tainted by sin. Man has an inclination to do that which is evil by his flesh. So man is tainted by sin, but with the Son of God, they can crucify the affections and lusts (i.e. they can put away mortal sin out of their lives by the power of Jesus).

So Christ really didn't do that much to save them. They had it in them all the time to save themselves? Sinners are pretty glorious after all. And God doesn't measure up to the hype?