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Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

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BABerean2

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Not in the least. The problem lies is that you forget God made a promise He intends to keep with teh whole house of Israel and Judah, called the New covenant!

The covenant says GOD WILL save the entire nation of Israel.

Again this is the New Covenant:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

When will He fulfill the New Covenant to the whole house of Israel and Judah? After those days! AKA at the end of the 70th week of Daniel when Jesus is about to return!

Now you have to decide if this is in fact the New Covenant Jesus paid for with His blood or not!

If it is, all your allegorical flights of fantasy are irrelavent.

Can I explain it all 100% ? No! But I know God says this is what He will do for all of Israel and I believe it! As written and not retranslated.



Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:



Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


Do you think the author of the Book of Hebrews was confused when he quoted Jeremiah 31:31-34, word-for-word in Hebrews 8:6-13, and used the word "now" in verse 6?


What covenant do you think about 3,000 Israelites accepted on the Day of Pentecost?


Do you think Paul was confused below?

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?



.
 
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mkgal1

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Verse 33 "after those days" defines "behold the days come" so when did the "after those days" happen for Israel in you scenario that says the new covenant is fulfilled.
That's not how I read that.

I read it that, after the days of the broken Mosaic Covenant, a new covenant will be formed (and it was on the Cross).

31Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD,

when I will make a new covenant

with the house of Israel

and with the house of Judah.32It will not be like the covenant

I made with their fathers

when I took them by the hand

to lead them out of the land of Egypt—

a covenant they broke,

though I was a husband to them,g

declares the LORD
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
 
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mkgal1

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Timtofly

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We seem to be making some progress, if you admit the Gospel was taken to the Jews for 3.5 years.

How long was it before Paul began his mission from Christ to take the Gospel to the Gentiles, in the passage below?


Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.


It was at least three years after his conversion, before Paul began his mission.

3.5 years + at least several months before Paul's conversion + 3 years (Galatians 1:18) =

What number do you get when you add up the numbers above?


.
It takes at least 1990 years to take the Gospel to the Gentiles. Should we be more efficient next time?
 
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mkgal1

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prove it! Paul was not a moron and he knew the difference between tranlsator and mediator. He chose the word used in classic greek for one negotiating between two parties. Sorry but teh cutesy film says nothing.
God isn't "negotiating".

God "speaks" through His chosen mediators....like this example:

Leviticus 26:46
These are the decrees, regulations, and instructions that the LORD gave through Moses on Mount Sinai as evidence of the relationship between himself and the Israelites.
From the New Testament

Matthew 23:2-3
The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice
.......language is limited. There's no specific language formed to describe God's interactions with humanity.
 
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iamlamad

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How long was that period of time?

.
Some say three years, a few think four years. Still others think only two. The gospels really don't tell us specifically.

It really does not matter. If it did, God would have specified the time.
 
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jgr

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God isn't "negotiating".

God "speaks" through His chosen mediators....like this example:

Leviticus 26:46
These are the decrees, regulations, and instructions that the LORD gave through Moses on Mount Sinai as evidence of the relationship between himself and the Israelites.
From the New Testament

Matthew 23:2-3
The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice
.......language is limited. There's no specific language formed to describe God's interactions with humanity.

Mkgal1, your and BaB2's longsuffering patience in dealing with our friend's puerile eruptions is nothing short of quasi-heavenly.

Blessings as you and he continue to demonstrate that "the Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35).
 
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mkgal1

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If it did, God would have specified the time.
"Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place." Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
 
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BABerean2

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Some say three years, a few think four years. Still others think only two. The gospels really don't tell us specifically.

It really does not matter. If it did, God would have specified the time.


The following is from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America before John Nelson Darby showed up on our shores.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.


.
 
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BABerean2

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It takes at least 1990 years to take the Gospel to the Gentiles. Should we be more efficient next time?


I do not know how long it is going to take, and neither does any other man or woman.


Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.


.
 
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iamlamad

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The following is from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America before John Nelson Darby showed up on our shores.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.
From David Guzik Commentary:
a. He shall confirm a covenant: The “he” Gabriel described is the prince who is to come mentioned in the previous verse. If we know that the prince’s people destroyed Jerusalem in A.D. 70, then we know this coming prince has his ancestral roots in the soil of the ancient Roman Empire.

i. Therefore, the prince who is to come will in some way be an heir to the Romans, even as the final world government is an heir to the Roman Empire (Daniel 7).

b. He shall confirm a covenant with many for one week: The coming prince will make a covenant with Israel for the final unit of seven years, completing the seventy weeks prophesied for the Jewish people and Jerusalem.

i. Covenant with many: The word many here is a specific reference to Israel, not a general reference to a group. The ancient Hebrew says, “covenant with the many.”

ii. With this covenant Israel will embrace the Antichrist as a political messiah, if not the literal Messiah. Jesus predicted this in John 5:43: I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.

iii. Taking the description of what would be accomplished in the 70 Weeks from Daniel 9:24, we know that the 70 Weeks are not yet complete. Yet the events promised in the first 69 weeks are fulfilled, indicated that there is a lengthy “pause” in the 70 Weeks, between the 69th week and the 70th week. The 70th week will begin when the coming prince shall confirm a covenant with the Jewish people. These gaps or pauses in prophecy may seem strange to us, but they are common. Comparing Isaiah 9:6 and Luke 1:31-33 shows another significant pause or gap in prophecy regarding the coming of the Messiah.

iv. We can think of it in this way: God appointed 490 years of special focus on Israel in His redemptive plan. The years were paused by Israel’s rejection of Jesus. Now there is no special focus on Israel in God’s redemptive plan because this is the time of the church. God’s focus will return to Israel when the church is taken away (at the rapture) and the last seven years of man’s rule on this earth begin.

v. “The 70th week will begin when the Jewish people are restored in unbelief to their land and city; and among them will be found a faithful remnant, owning their sin, and seeking Jehovah’s face.” (Henry Ironside writing in 1911)

c. In the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering: The coming prince will break the covenant with Israel in the middle of the seven years, the final week (period of seven years).

i. The Book of Revelation sees this seven year period with both its halves as yet future (Revelation 12:6, 13-14; 13:5-9, 14-15). The middle of the week and the end of sacrifice had not yet happened in 90 A.D.

d. On the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate: The ending of sacrifice will come with abominations, followed by tremendous desolation.

i. Abominations translates an ancient Hebrew word (shiqquwts) that is connected to horrific idolatry (Deuteronomy 29:17, 1 Kings 11:5-7, 2 Kings 23:13). The idea is that the coming prince breaks the covenant and brings an end to sacrifice and offering by desecrating the holy place of the temple with a horrific idolatry.

ii. Jesus called this the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15) and indicated that it would be a pivotal sign in the Great Tribulation. Paul referred to the idolatry of the coming prince in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.

e. Until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate: This breaking of the covenant and abomination of desolation has a promised consummation. Before the 70th week is completed, each of the things described in Daniel 9:24 will be accomplished and everlasting righteousness will reign. END OF QUOTE

Over time people have understood more about this prophecy. That makes sense:

12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
 
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BABerean2

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From David Guzik Commentary:
a. He shall confirm a covenant: The “he” Gabriel described is the prince who is to come mentioned in the previous verse. If we know that the prince’s people destroyed Jerusalem in A.D. 70, then we know this coming prince has his ancestral roots in the soil of the ancient Roman Empire.

i. Therefore, the prince who is to come will in some way be an heir to the Romans, even as the final world government is an heir to the Roman Empire (Daniel 7).

b. He shall confirm a covenant with many for one week: The coming prince will make a covenant with Israel for the final unit of seven years, completing the seventy weeks prophesied for the Jewish people and Jerusalem.

i. Covenant with many: The word many here is a specific reference to Israel, not a general reference to a group. The ancient Hebrew says, “covenant with the many.”

ii. With this covenant Israel will embrace the Antichrist as a political messiah, if not the literal Messiah. Jesus predicted this in John 5:43: I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.

iii. Taking the description of what would be accomplished in the 70 Weeks from Daniel 9:24, we know that the 70 Weeks are not yet complete. Yet the events promised in the first 69 weeks are fulfilled, indicated that there is a lengthy “pause” in the 70 Weeks, between the 69th week and the 70th week. The 70th week will begin when the coming prince shall confirm a covenant with the Jewish people. These gaps or pauses in prophecy may seem strange to us, but they are common. Comparing Isaiah 9:6 and Luke 1:31-33 shows another significant pause or gap in prophecy regarding the coming of the Messiah.

iv. We can think of it in this way: God appointed 490 years of special focus on Israel in His redemptive plan. The years were paused by Israel’s rejection of Jesus. Now there is no special focus on Israel in God’s redemptive plan because this is the time of the church. God’s focus will return to Israel when the church is taken away (at the rapture) and the last seven years of man’s rule on this earth begin.

v. “The 70th week will begin when the Jewish people are restored in unbelief to their land and city; and among them will be found a faithful remnant, owning their sin, and seeking Jehovah’s face.” (Henry Ironside writing in 1911)

c. In the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering: The coming prince will break the covenant with Israel in the middle of the seven years, the final week (period of seven years).

i. The Book of Revelation sees this seven year period with both its halves as yet future (Revelation 12:6, 13-14; 13:5-9, 14-15). The middle of the week and the end of sacrifice had not yet happened in 90 A.D.

d. On the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate: The ending of sacrifice will come with abominations, followed by tremendous desolation.

i. Abominations translates an ancient Hebrew word (shiqquwts) that is connected to horrific idolatry (Deuteronomy 29:17, 1 Kings 11:5-7, 2 Kings 23:13). The idea is that the coming prince breaks the covenant and brings an end to sacrifice and offering by desecrating the holy place of the temple with a horrific idolatry.

ii. Jesus called this the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15) and indicated that it would be a pivotal sign in the Great Tribulation. Paul referred to the idolatry of the coming prince in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.

e. Until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate: This breaking of the covenant and abomination of desolation has a promised consummation. Before the 70th week is completed, each of the things described in Daniel 9:24 will be accomplished and everlasting righteousness will reign. END OF QUOTE

Over time people have understood more about this prophecy. That makes sense:

12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.


A Hebrew scholar, who is a former Dispensationalist, reveals the truth about Daniel 9:27:


If the Messiah's death is in Daniel 9, then the New Covenant is in Daniel 9.

Dan 9:26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.


Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


Based on Hebrews 9:15 the Messiah's death cannot be separated from the fulfillment of the New Covenant.


.
 
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iamlamad

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A Hebrew scholar, who is a former Dispensationalist, reveals the truth about Daniel 9:27:


If the Messiah's death is in Daniel 9, then the New Covenant is in Daniel 9.

Dan 9:26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.


Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


Based on Hebrews 9:15 the Messiah's death cannot be separated from the fulfillment of the New Covenant.
.
The truth is, our salvation was not complete until Jesus conquered death and rose from the dead. As Paul wrote, if Jesus did not rise, then we are still in our sins.

Heb. 9:15 is truth: a Last Will & Testament is not in force until the testator dies. In this case, Jesus is the ONLY MAN EVER to be the Mediator of His own Will and Testament, having conquered death forever.
 
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iamlamad

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"Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place." Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
There is simply no verse anywhere in the New Testament that gives us specifics on the duration of Jesus' ministry. You can try and fake it, saying that we find that information in Daniel. But today fewer and fewer people believe that the first half of the 70th week is fulfilled. More and more are coming to believe that the entire 70th week is future to us today.
 
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iamlamad

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I feel it's safe for me to say that's not true of any of those you're accusing. What is true is that there's no distinction between how people are brought into His Kingdom. There's only one plan of salvation....and, as we recite in the Nicene Creed, "one Church" (people of God).....one ἐκκλησία (ekklesia).
Then why are some accused of believing "the Duel Covenant" theory? I don't believe there is a covenant outside of Jesus Christ - but some here are accused of this doctrine.
 
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iamlamad

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Anyone who claims modern Jews will be saved outside of the Church, have abandoned what is written in the Bible.

The original source of the modern Two Peoples of God doctrine is found below.
The doctrine is less than 200 years old.
Genesis of Dispensational Theology
.
If YOU were God, would you just abandon them to the lake of fire - in spirit of the promises you made to them?
 
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BABerean2

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If YOU were God, would you just abandon them to the lake of fire - in spirit of the promises you made to them?


Anyone who claims God did not fulfill His promises to the Jewish people through the sacrifice of His Son at Calvary, has abandoned what is written in the Bible.

All forms of Dual Covenant Theology, based on race, ignore Paul's warning against genealogies in Titus 3:9.

There is only one people of God in John 10:16.


2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
2Jn 1:11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.


Any person who willingly rejects God's Son has made the personal decision to go to the lake of fire.
God provided that choice through the sacrifice of His Son.
There is no Plan B, based on race.

.
 
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