Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

[Timtofly]

Maybe not, but there are a few here that deny that Gabriel was bringing a message of hope for Daniel and the faithful ancient Israelites. If it were a message that the Mosaic Covenant were to be confirmed....that wouldn't be a message of hope.

Why would God send a message of discouragment? Just because you interpret it 2500 years later, one way, does not mean it was: not a message of hope with an earthly flavor to Daniel and his people. You are claiming they have the same mind set as you do. 2500 years is a lot of water under the bridge.

 

[Timtofly]

The error that you, BAB2, jgr, CG, and others are making is that you are interpreting Daniel 9:26-27, the covenant confirmed for 7 years - is the new covenant in Christ, when it is the Mt. Sinai Covenant.

Or neither? I do not see it as limited to Moses. You are leaving out, Abraham, Jacob (Israel), Noah, and poor Adam that got us into this mess.

 

[mkgal1]

Why? Because you here altered teh Scriptures like they do! Teh Daniel passage clearly says that a "he" establishes a covenant for 7 years and now you say the disciples preaching the gospel ifs part of that 7 years! He is never they! And besides can you show where preaching the giospel has anything to do with this prophecy and with the new covenant? I am at a loss in seeing how th egosdpel fits here.

I did. You quoted it. It was only through the power of the Holy Spirit (God) that His Gospel spread and people experienced the promised gift of the New Covenant (the Holy Spirit).

An example:

Acts 10

​

 

[mkgal1]

Why would God send a message of discouragment?

That's my point. I don't believe God did. I believe Gabriel was sent to bring hope and encouragement to Daniel.

Douggg believes the covenant to be confirmed mentioned in Daniel 9 is the Mt Sinai covenant (even though that was the covenant the ancient Israelites were already under and had already broken). By transgressing the conditions in that covenant, the ancient Israelites were due the curses (which was ultimately destruction). To confirm that covenant would be to confirm the curses upon them....which would be unnecessary and redundant (and that would not be an answer to Daniel's prayer).

 

[mkgal1]

You are claiming they have the same mind set as you do. 2500 years is a lot of water under the bridge.

No, I'm not making that claim.

 

[keras]

And as soon as the EU makes changes to have a ten leader form of government, either that, or ten core decision making body with one leader over them - then I will be proven right.

Well then, I can be very confident; you will be proven wrong.

The soon to be established One World Government, will be world wide, as Daniel 7:23 makes plain.

 

[jgr]

The prince who shall come. The prince who shall come is the closest antecedent to the "he" in Daniel 9:27.

Agreed.

And the closest antecedent (precisely, the closest referent) of "the prince who shall come" is "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25.

 

[BABerean2]

I have answered you r question! Go back and look it up! Paul went to the Jew first until he died!

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'



Gal 1:14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace,
Gal 1:16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
Gal 1:17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days.



Act 28:28 "Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it!"
Act 28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed and had a great dispute among themselves.



Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.



.

 

[mkgal1]

mkgal1, do you read anything in Daniel 9, that Daniel's people and Jerusalem were going to reject the messiah, in any way, or as their King?

They had already been rejecting God's messages to them through the prophets.

Daniel 9:11
All Israel has transgressed Your law and turned away, refusing to obey Your voice; so the oath and the curse written in the Law of Moses the servant of God has been poured out on us.
​

The point of this passage (in my belief - and in the belief of the historical Church) is that God is merciful and gracious to Daniel's intercession. It's a complete change of the plot to involve the future rejection of Messiah....because this passage is about Daniel making pleas for God to:

Let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem

Cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary
​

And Gabriel's message to Daniel was about what God was going to accomplish (as Parousia70 explained more completely earlier):

To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy​

 

[mkgal1]

I have answered you r question! Go back and look it up! Paul went to the Jew first until he died!

Are you asserting that Paul only taught the Jews....until he died?

 

[jgr]

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

Daniel 9:27 Hebrew:
bə·rîṯ
בְּרִ֛ית
a covenant
N‑fs

Daniel 9:27 NASB
And he will confirm a covenant with the many for one week...

Daniel 9:27 YLT
And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week...

Your contention that the presence of "the" in "the covenant" means "the Sinai covenant" is not supported by the foregoing most accurate translations of "a covenant", most notably the Hebrew itself.

A wide majority of English versions translate the verse as "a covenant".

 

[Douggg]

Douggg believes the covenant to be confirmed mentioned in Daniel 9 is the Mt Sinai covenant (even though that was the covenant the ancient Israelites were already under and had already broken). By transgressing the conditions in that covenant, the ancient Israelites were due the curses (which was ultimately destruction). To confirm that covenant would be to confirm the curses upon them....which would be unnecessary and redundant (and that would not be an answer to Daniel's prayer).

What covenant were the Jews under during the 483 years to the messiah cutoff?

Under what covenant were the Jews observing the sabbath in Jesus's first coming time?

_________________________________________________________

The babylonian and assyrian captivities were due because the Israelites had gotten in to worshipping foreign god - which were introduced to the country by the number of Solomon's wives. That's what got the curses.

They learned their lesson. And in the new testament passages, there are a lot of faults found in the Jews of Jesus's time, but idolatry was not one of them.

 

[Douggg]

Your contention that the presence of "the" in "the covenant" means "the Sinai covenant" is not supported by the foregoing most accurate translations of "a covenant", most notably the Hebrew itself.

That was only one of the reasons, the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is the Mt. Sinai covenant.

 

[keras]

That was only one of the reasons, the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Explain then: Was the Mt Sinai Covenant for seven years?

 

[Douggg]

Explain then: Was the Mt Sinai Covenant for seven years?

The Jews at Messiah Truth countermissionary site, say it is forever. They give some scriptural references. I don't recall what those were.

The Mt Sinai covenant is intended to be confirmed every seven years, in the form that Moses required in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

 

[mkgal1]

The Jews at Messiah Truth countermissionary site, say it is forever. They give some scriptural references. I don't recall what those were.

And you believe that's a credible source?

 

[Douggg]

And you believe that's a credible source?

Yes, when they are talking about their own religion - Judaism. No, when they are talking about Christianity.

 

[Douggg]

Agreed.

And the closest antecedent (precisely, the closest referent) of "the prince who shall come" is "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25.

"he" is a pronoun. So it has an antecedent. The same does not apply proper noun to proper noun.

 

[jgr]

"he" is a pronoun. So it has an antecedent. The same does not apply proper noun to proper noun.

It applies to referents, of which antecedents are a subset.

"A referent (/ˈrɛfərənt/) is a person or thing to which a name – a linguistic expression or other symbol – refers."

The referent is the person "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25.

The name is "the prince" in Daniel 9:26, which refers to "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25.

Thus the referent chain identifies "he" in Daniel 9:27 as "the prince" in Daniel 9:26, which in turn identifies "the prince" in Daniel 9:26 as "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25.

Which grammatically identifies "Messiah the Prince" as "he" who confirms a covenant, which is not the Sinai covenant.

A covenant verified not only grammatically, but also Scriptually and historically.

 

[jgr]

That was only one of the reasons, the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is the Mt. Sinai covenant.

The evidence shows that it never was a reason.

There are no other reasons.