How can any Christian vote for pro-abortion politicians?

[chad kincham]

They like to make themselves sound very righteous by referring to murdered babies and how all those baby lives are precious but, as you've noted, they have no problem killing in war. It's hypocrisy.

It’s neocon chickenhawks that are so quick to go to war, not Christians.

And in case you haven’t figured it out, Trump is against going to war at the drop of a hat, and wants out of Afghanistan, and refused to start a war in Syria that Hillary and the military industrial complex wanted, that would have meant war with Russia (who is in Syria as Assad’s ally).

That aside, God has always given judges and law enforcement, plus the military and armies, authority to punish evil doers, through the law and judges, or through the military and armies.

Read Romans 13:

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,

Rom 13:4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

And this:

1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

 

[John Mullally]

If you are not responsible for the personal failures of the people you vote for and put into power over others, then you are also not responsible for the free-willed actions of women who choose to abort their babies.

Do you think that Christians should take responsibility for the personal failures of the people they vote for? If I felt that way I would not vote. I vote substance - I vote issues - not tabloid gossip.

The "Free-will action of a woman to abort her baby" is called murder. I have a conscience. I choose to vote for candidates that are not enablers of that action.

 

[John Helpher]

It’s neocon chickenhawks that are so quick to go to war, not Christians.

I agree, but that being the case, there's a lot of Christians out there who say that going to war is good, which means they're aren't really Christian. That's not surprising. Even in his own day, Jesus had the same problem. At one point he turned to a group of his own followers and said, "Why do you call me, 'Lord', but do not obey me"? (Luke 6:46)

And in case you haven’t figured it out, Trump is against going to war at the drop of a hat,

Wasn't it just a few months ago that he was sending missiles into Iran to assassinate a top military commander, an action which easily could have led to war? And, even if he was sure it would not lead to war, why is he assassinating his enemies anyway? That's the exact opposite of what Jesus said to do.

That aside, God has always given judges and law enforcement, plus the military and armies, authority to punish evil doers, through the law and judges, or through the military and armies.

What did Jesus say about how we should treat our enemies? Is he the boss, or not?

 

[chad kincham]

I did alot of research, nearly every abortion happens in the first 2/3 months. And most of them are not for reasons like I do not want to be a parent. Some are victims of rape, some have medical problems that would cause the death of the mother or the fetus or both.

99,5% of abortions are for convenience, not for true medical necessity.

They find all kinds of reasons to justify abortions, because it’s a billion dollar industry to kill the unborn, so clinics keep a doctor on retainer as a so called consultant, to come up with a reason an abortion is necessary - the mental health of the mother is one rationale they come up with frequently.

By 2 months the fetus (Latin term for baby) has a beating heart.

By 3 months, the fetus is fully formed with head, torso, arms, legs, hands, and feet.

We have a 12 week (3 month) sonogram showing our son sucking his thumb.

Democrats also are for completely unrestricted abortion, right up to the day the baby is born!

BTW every medical manual of human embryology states that human life begins at conception.

 

[John Helpher]

Do you think that Christians should take responsibility for the personal failures of the people they vote for?

Depends on what they know about the person at the time. There is the possibility that you could genuinely, ignorantly support a person who really does have evil intentions and is very good at hiding them. Even then, I don't think that would guarantee escape from accountability as God can protect the sincere even from their own ignorance.

However, you are not ignorant of Trump's character. That audio recording of him bragging about sexually assaulting women, and getting away with it because of his fame and wealth, came out months before election day in 2016. It was widely published.

You still voted for him. You chose to give him power, even knowing his character. Heck, that's precisely why so many people voted for him; they didn't want a nice guy. They wanted Trump precisely because of his bad character. You're just having trouble finally dropping that mask of respectability and fully coming out of the closet. Deep down, you don't want to hide behind respectability, but for now you still believe you need it.

But, a time is coming when you won't need to hide behind respectability any more. The masks will drop and, whether for good or bad, people will show who they really are deep, down inside. Praise god for that.

 

[JSRG]

The bible also says if you cause a woman to miscarry you must pay a fine...the bible also says the punishment for murder is death. If god considered the unborn child a human the punishment would be death...thats gods law...and god and Jesus are the same.

The fine is for when someone accidentally causes the premature birth (Exodus 21:22). An accidental killing of someone is not punished by death in the Bible... that is reserved for intentional ones. In fact, the Israelites were commanded to set up cities where those who accidentally killed someone could flee to (Numbers 35, Joshua 20) for protection against someone who wanted to avenge the accidental death.

 

[John Helpher]

By 2 months the fetus (Latin term for baby) has a beating heart.

Leviticus 17:11 says "the life is in the blood". I don't know if this is a suggestion that life starts at the formation of a circulatory system in the context of a fetus being officially alive as a human (as opposed to a lump of cells), but, the circulatory system develops pretty early, around 5 weeks.

Democrats also are for completely unrestricted abortion, right up to the day the baby is born!

Some democrats may feel this way, but it is a political exaggeration to lump them all together like this.

I mean, consider it the other way; I'm sure you've probably heard someone making a general comment about some problem with Republicans which you felt was unfairly broad, right?

 

[chad kincham]

What did Jesus say about how we should treat our enemies? Is he the boss, or not?

And Jesus allows use of armed defense to protect ourselves from evil doers:

Luk 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no SWORD, let him sell his garment, AND BUY ONE.

Speaking of a sword, the New Testament also says:

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Rulers are what? Ministers of God who uses a sword to execute wrath upon evil doers.

That includes war against evil doers, when necessary to stop them.

That includes using a drone to take out a terrorist General when caught in the middle of executing a terrorist plot.

 

[chad kincham]

Some democrats may feel this way, but it is a political exaggeration to lump them all together like this.

Biden, Hillary, all Democrat leaders are for unrestricted abortion.

 

[John Helpher]

Biden, Hillary, all Democrat leaders are for unrestricted abortion.

Do you have a source for that?

 

[chad kincham]

Some democrats may feel this way, but it is a political exaggeration to lump them all together like this.

Biden, Hillary, all Democrat leaders have come out for totally unrestricted abortion.

 

[John Helpher]

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Rulers are what? Ministers of God who uses a sword to execute wrath upon evil doers.

That includes war against evil doers, when necessary to stop evil doers.

That includes using a drone to take out a terrorist General when caught in the middle of executing a terrorist plot.

Okay, so how do you reconcile that with Jesus saying we should love our enemies?

 

[John Helpher]

Biden, Hillary, all Democrat leaders have come out for totally unrestricted abortion.

Do you have a source for that?

 

[chad kincham]

Do you have a source for that?

just their own words, spoken publicly.

 

[chad kincham]

Okay, so how do you reconcile that with Jesus saying we should love our enemies?

Because there’s a difference between individuals and governments,

Governments are authorized by God to protect people by enforcing laws and punishing criminals - and authorized to have a military as well, to protect the nation, which can involve killing the bad guys.

Individuals have no authority to judge anyone to be worthy of death, with the exception of a self defense killing.

Just like in our society. A judge can order an execution to serve justice, but individual citizens have no authority to judge someone to be worthy of death.

We are to love one another, but governments exist, by the authority of God - and execute justice legally by courts, and martially by armies.

That’s no contradiction.

Here’s an example:

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not THE SWORD in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth EVIL..

 

[John Helpher]

just their own words, spoken publicly.

Okay, but when someone asks for a source, they're asking you to provide evidence for the claim. If they've said these things, provide a source for that. There's a lot of fake news going around, so it makes sense to confirm claims. Do you have something more than just, "words they've spoken"?

 

[chad kincham]

Do you have a source for that?

The Washington Post:

Until last summer, Charlie Camosy served on the board of Democrats for Life. But the Catholic professor of theological ethics said he stepped down when it became clear all the major Democratic presidential candidates had become too extreme for him on the issue of abortion

“They were trying to make sure people like me were not welcome in the party,” said Camosy, who teaches at Fordham University in New York City.

Camosy, a registered independent who says he has voted for Democrats down-ballot but not for president in recent years, joined the American Solidarity Party last summer. The tipping point, he said, was when even Buttigieg, seen as more moderate by many voters, was “parroting” the language of the Democratic Party’s 2016 platform, which includes no restrictions to abortion access and opposes a long-standing measure — known as the Hyde Amendment— that prohibits the use of taxpayer money to pay for abortions.

In a recent survey of all the Democratic candidates, The Washington Post asked whether there should be restrictions on abortion at any point during a healthy pregnancy. Six of the candidates, including Buttigieg, Warren and Sanders, said they support no restrictions.

 

[John Mullally]

you could genuinely, ignorantly support a person who really does have evil intentions and is very good at hiding them.

But, a time is coming when you won't need to hide behind respectability any more. The masks will drop and, whether for good or bad, people will show who they really are deep, down inside. Praise god for that

Has it ever crossed your mind that Trump could be a flawed human being that does not have evil intentions and that you are a party to slander? You see him as being good at hiding evil intentions - maybe he got to be so good at that because the evil intentions are not there. Maybe you have been gas-lighted - we have had 3 years of Russian collusion accusations and all we have to show for it is FBI malfeasance and the destruction of evidence on the Mueller team itself.

That day is coming where the intents of the heart will be revealed indeed.

 

[JSRG]

The Washington Post:

Until last summer, Charlie Camosy served on the board of Democrats for Life. But the Catholic professor of theological ethics said he stepped down when it became clear all the major Democratic presidential candidates had become too extreme for him on the issue of abortion

“They were trying to make sure people like me were not welcome in the party,” said Camosy, who teaches at Fordham University in New York City.

Camosy, a registered independent who says he has voted for Democrats down-ballot but not for president in recent years, joined the American Solidarity Party last summer. The tipping point, he said, was when even Buttigieg, seen as more moderate by many voters, was “parroting” the language of the Democratic Party’s 2016 platform, which includes no restrictions to abortion access and opposes a long-standing measure — known as the Hyde Amendment— that prohibits the use of taxpayer money to pay for abortions.

In a recent survey of all the Democratic candidates, The Washington Post asked whether there should be restrictions on abortion at any point during a healthy pregnancy. Six of the candidates, including Buttigieg, Warren and Sanders, said they support no restrictions.

It would have been better if you had given an actual link to the article, which is here for the record.

But anyway, that's your backup. Now let's compare what your source says to what you claimed:

Biden, Hillary, all Democrat leaders are for unrestricted abortion.

Well, first, the part you did quote doesn't back you up, as it says nothing about Biden, Hillary, or "all Democratic leaders." But rather oddly, you don't quote the entire final paragraph. Here it is in full with the sentence you removed bolded:

"In a recent survey of all the Democratic candidates, The Washington Post asked whether there should be restrictions on abortion at any point during a healthy pregnancy. Six of the candidates, including Buttigieg, Warren and Sanders, said they support no restrictions. Biden and Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) responded that abortion should be unrestricted until the point of fetal viability, usually considered to be between 24 and 28 weeks of pregnancy."

Is there any particular reason why, when offering a quote from this article, you omitted the last sentence of that paragraph, which directly contradicts your claim?

Maybe Biden changed his mind and became more extreme later, but it's hard for me to take the claim seriously when apparently the best source you can find for backup actually contradicts the claim.

I don't like Biden myself, mind you... but again, it's important to judge him by what he's actually said, and (so far) evidence has not been presented that he--or Hillary, or "all Democratic leaders"--favors no abortion regulation at all, and in fact the evidence presented has stated the opposite for Biden.

 

[DamianWarS]

Abortion isn't a choice; it's taking an innocent life. Abortion advocates like to fancy themselves as "pro-choice," but such a term is misleading. It wouldn't make sense if I were to say that stealing is wrong, but I would never interfere in other people's right to choose to steal, and therefore conclude that theft shouldn't be a crime.

Many verses in the Bible testify to the fact that there is life in the womb. One such verse is Luke 1:41: "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

How can any Christian vote for politicians who support abortion? That goes against God's teaching in the Bible not to murder (Exodus 20:13).

your line in the sand is abortion, perhaps others are honesty and integrity. no politician is perfect but Trump seems to be lacking grossly in Christian morals and is using a Christian platform transactionally not sincerely. when we participate in this we too are turning the gospel into a transaction. Simon the Sorcerer tried to buy the gospel as a parlour trick and this is what Peter told him in Acts 8:20-23 "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin." IMHO this rebuke perfectly fits Trump. I'm not telling you how to vote but keep away from this transaction sentiment as far as possible.