Any scriptural evidence that evangelized Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath?

[Bob S]

The reason the Decalogue (Ten Commands) are no longer in effect, but have ended, is found in 2 Corinthians chapter three, wherein we find that the Ten Commands are: the ministration of DEATH, the letter which KILLS, and the ministration of CONDEMNATION which is contrasted with the new covenant (testament) of the spirit, that gives life.


2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Co 3:11 For if that which is DONE AWAY was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


The reason the Ten commands kills, brings death, and condemnation is due to the fact that the penalty under the law for breaking any of the Ten, was being put to death by stoning.


The penalty for killing - put to death:

Exo 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.


The penalty for not honoring your mother and father: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put todeath: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall beupon him.


The penalty for adultery: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with anotherman's wife, even hethat committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.


The penalty for breaking the sabbath by doing any work, such as picking up sticks for kindling: put to death by stoning:

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it isholy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth anywork therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


If the Ten Commands are still in effect, the penalty for breaking them is still in effect, thus those who insist on keeping the ended covenant that contained the Ten Commands, are breaking the law themselves, by not stoning to death those who break the commands.


You can't have one without the other.

Imagine you were doing a ride along with a police officer, and you see that he ignores traffic law violations: speeding, running red lights, reckless driving, drunk driving, etc.


During the conversation you have with the officer, he says, "yes, I believe in the traffic laws. I keep those laws, myself - I just don't enforce them".


Sabbath day keepers, and Ten Commandment keepers are saying, those commands are still in effect and we keep them, but we don't enforce the law, as is required BY the law.


The ten commands ended when the old covenant ended, because the ten are called “the covenant on two tables of stone” in scripture - thus when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended with it - including the fourth command.


Invariably some people will claim that the new covenant is simply the old covenant restated, because they want to keep the 7th day command in effect, but that argument won’t hold water.


Scripture says the new covenant is a BETTER covenant, founded on BETTER PROMISES - not the old one recycled.


And says if the old one was faultless, there’d be no need for a new covenant.


The truth of the matter is, God rested on the seventh day one time only - not weekly - but did not command anyone else to keep a seventh day sabbath at that time.


You won’t find the word sabbath anywhere in Genesis, nor find Abraham or anyone else in Genesis resting on the 7th day - because there was no such command until God gave it to Israel as a covenant sign of His freeing them from slavery in Egypt, after their Exodus.


Moses said concerning the law God gave to Israel, which includes the Decalogue:


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT this covenant with our fathers, but with US even-us, who are all of us here alive this day.


And God says why and to who He first gave the command to keep the 7th day:


Deu 5:15 And REMEMBER that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the LORD thy God commanded THEE to keep the sabbath day.


The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths YE shall keep: for it is a SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that ye May know that I amthe LORD that doth sanctify YOU.


The Old Covenant ten has been replaced by the two love commands, neither of which include the requirement to keep the 7th day, or any day.


The two love commands are different from the old ten, because they are kept out of love, not out of fear of the punishment of death by stoning for breaking them.


Some fallacious arguments: Jesus kept the sabbath - of course He did, because the old covenant law was still in effect until He died on the cross.


Another one: Paul kept the sabbath over 80 times in Acts - Paul was found every sabbath preaching to the sabbath keeping Jews (who were only there to hear Paul evangelize on the 7th day), that Jesus is their Messiah.


If he preached in the synagogue on Sunday,he’d be preaching to empty seats.


The fact is, when the apostles assembled together for church, and to collect offerings, it was on the first day of the week:


Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first dayof the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace beunto you.


1Co 16:2 Upon the first dayof the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as Godhath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Peter wrote that Paul's writings were hard to understand. I have had some who are Saturday keepers use Peter to deny 2Cor 3:6-11 really means that the ten commandments have been done away, verse 11 KJV. Done away surely is not hard to understand as is the remainder of verses 6-10. Those verses explain that the Holy Spirit replaced the ten commandments as the guide for all mankind. This, of course, was the promise Jesus made to the disciples before His accession.

Jesus said He came to fulfill the law and the prophets. Fulfill means to bring to an end and Paul confirms that in 2Cor 3:6-11. Paul further tells us in Gal 3:19 that the law was until Jesus and Col 2:16-17 Paul wrote that no one should judge us for not observing the Sabbath because it was a shadow of Jesus coming. Heb 4 tells us that today, if we hear His voice we can have rest in Him. Our Sabbath rest is indeed in Jesus.

God honors our worship on any day. The new covenant doesn't specify what day, it only tells us not to forsake gathering together. We need fellowship to keep us strengthened.

 

[guevaraj]

A covenant between God and the people of Israel. So if you are Jewish, it is your covenant (see Rom 9:4). If you are not Jewish, are are outside of this covenant, unless you get circumcised (or get a proselyte bath, if you are woman). It is the new covenant which breaks down the difference between Jews and Gentiles, Jewish and Gentile Christian (Eph 2:11-21). Yes, the covenant with Israel is forever, this race will not perish until the end of times (Mt 24:34). But this does not mean that the signs of this covenant will be the signs of the New covenant.

Brother, nothing you have quoted says that we are not Israelites. It reminds us that we started out as Gentiles, but we who have "come in" to "all Israel" are now Israelites as revealed in Romans 11:25-31. Romans 11:25-31 reveals that those of us who have "come in" are "part" of "all Israel" and are no longer Gentiles but Israelites. We have "come in" to the "part" of "all Israel" that accepts Jesus. Not all Jews rejected Jesus as you assume. There is a "part" of "all Israel" that remained faithful to God and accepts the new covenant with Jesus that no longer kills animals but prays in Jesus' name for the forgiveness of sins.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. (Romans 11:25-31 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Kenny'sID]

BTW Where is the "sarcasm emoticon"?

Man made rules dont think sarcasm appropriate?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Peter wrote that Paul's writings were hard to understand. I have had some who are Saturday keepers use Peter to deny 2Cor 3:6-11 really means that the ten commandments have been done away, verse 11 KJV. Done away surely is not hard to understand as is the remainder of verses 6-10. Those verses explain that the Holy Spirit replaced the ten commandments as the guide for all mankind. This, of course, was the promise Jesus made to the disciples before His accession.

Jesus said He came to fulfill the law and the prophets. Fulfill means to bring to an end and Paul confirms that in 2Cor 3:6-11. Paul further tells us in Gal 3:19 that the law was until Jesus and Col 2:16-17 Paul wrote that no one should judge us for not observing the Sabbath because it was a shadow of Jesus coming. Heb 4 tells us that today, if we hear His voice we can have rest in Him. Our Sabbath rest is indeed in Jesus.

God honors our worship on any day. The new covenant doesn't specify what day, it only tells us not to forsake gathering together. We need fellowship to keep us strengthened.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

This doesn't say anything about the Commandments being "done away with" What it is saying is to keep the Commandments in our hearts. We obey God and His commandments because we love Him. We can not have the Holy Spirit if we keep Gods law because we have to, we should obey because we want to. The commandments are not meant to be a punishment. It's God moral law so we can be more like Him and be prepared for Gods return.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

 

[Bob S]

No where in the New Testament states Gods law was done away with- hence why its repeated even in the last chapter of the Bible.
Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The New Covenant was to confirm Gods law in our hearts. Not to obey because it was a "legal requirement" because we love God and want to keep His Commandments.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Why is it SDAs take the privilege to try to make it sound like the writer of Revelations is referring to the ten commandments when nowhere in the New Testament does commandments have a ten before commandments?

Jesus, in Jn 15 said He kept His Father's commandments and asked us to keep His commands. Then He goes on to say this: 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

1Jn 3: 19-24 tells us we belong to the truth if we believe and love others as Jesus loves us. If we take Jn seriously, and we certainly should, this is the life we all should live.

Remember it is not what we do that gives us eternal life, it is what Jesus did.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why is it SDAs take the privilege to try to make it sound like the writer of Revelations is referring to the ten commandments when nowhere in the New Testament does commandments have a ten before commandments?

Jesus, in Jn 15 said He kept His Father's commandments and asked us to keep His commands. Then He goes on to say this: 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

1Jn 3: 19-24 tells us we belong to the truth if we believe and love others as Jesus loves us. If we take Jn seriously, and we certainly should, this is the life we all should live.

Remember it is not what we do that gives us eternal life, it is what Jesus did.

What other commandments is He referring to? God only made the Commandments once. Well twice, the same Commandments in Stone after the first was broken.

God made a really big deal out of the 10 Commandments. He wrote it with His finger. It was written in Stone (a symbol to be everlasting). The Commandments was in the Holy tabernacle. After, it was referred to as the "commandments" in the Old Testaments and carried over to the New Testaments the same way.
There is no other reference to any other commandments.

Yes, it is very important to God that we love each other and keep His commandments.

Why would you not want to keep His commandments? Do you want to lie, steal, cheat, murder, covet ? Do you think God wants us to do those things?

 

[Bob S]

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

This doesn't say anything about the Commandments being "done away with"

SDAs use the King James version to try to prove the Investigative Judgement yet I specified the KJV in my post and you in yours instead used another version. The KJV version indeed uses the term done away. The version you used says the ten were transitory. Transitory means temporary. They were temporary until Jesus fulfilled the law and gave us the new covenant.

What it is saying is to keep the Commandments in our hearts.

Don't you wish. If it did then you would have a reason to keep the ritual forth commandment.

We obey God and His commandments because we love Him. We can not have the Holy Spirit if we keep Gods law because we have to, we should obey because we want to. The commandments are not meant to be a punishment. It's God moral law so we can be more like Him and be prepared for Gods return.

The fourth commandment is not a moral command, it is a ritual command. The remainder of the ten commandments are found in the new covenant law of love which is the command Jesus gave us in Jn 15: 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Notice Jesus did not say TEN commands now did he.

 

[guevaraj]

Why is it SDAs take the privilege to try to make it sound like the writer of Revelations is referring to the ten commandments when nowhere in the New Testament does commandments have a ten before commandments?

Brother, those that accept "the error of the lawless" want to love disobeying the ten commandments when God started to show us how to love with the ten commandments. The new covenant does not end the ten commandments but adds to them for a "surpassing glory" than the previous "glory" of the ten commandments. "Surpassing" means more than not less than the ten commandments.

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! (2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NIV)​

United in our hope for the return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[SabbathBlessings]

h

SDAs use the King James version to try to prove the Investigative Judgement yet I specified the KJV in my post and you in yours instead used another version. The KJV version indeed uses the term done away. The version you used says the ten were transitory. Transitory means temporary. They were temporary until Jesus fulfilled the law and gave us the new covenant.


Don't you wish. If it did then you would have a reason to keep the ritual forth commandment.


The fourth commandment is not a moral command, it is a ritual command. The remainder of the ten commandments are found in the new covenant law of love which is the command Jesus gave us in Jn 15: 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.


Notice Jesus did not say TEN commands now did he.

If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.This includes the very important 4th Commandment that starts with "Remember" along with all of the other laws of God.

My command is this: love each other as I have loved you does not replace God's law. He is asking us to love each other.

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
- Isaiah 66:23

Sabbath Is a Day of Rest and Worship | Sabbath Truth

 

[Bob S]

What other commandments is He referring to? God only made the Commandments once. Well twice, the same Commandments in Stone after the first was broken.

God made a really big deal out of the 10 Commandments. He wrote it with His finger. It was written in Stone (a symbol to be everlasting). The Commandments was in the Holy tabernacle. After, it was referred to as the "commandments" in the Old Testaments and carried over to the New Testaments the same way.
There is no other reference to any other commandments.

Yes, it is very important to God that we love each other and keep His commandments.

Why would you not want to keep His commandments? Do you want to lie, steal, cheat, murder, covet ? Do you think God wants us to do those things?

If you believe that keeping the ten commands will somehow spring you into eternal life then maybe you should read some of the other things that you shall not do such as Gal 5:
16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. See 2Cor3:6-11

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul did not write one thing about keeping ritual laws found in the Sinai covenant. Yes the ten were important to the Israelites just as the Royal Law of Love is important to Christians. The ironic thing is that the ten commandments didn't mention anything about the greatest commands about loving God or our fellow man. Those commands are found in the book of the law.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If you believe that keeping the ten commands will somehow spring you into eternal life then maybe you should read some of the other things that you shall not do such as Gal 5:
16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. See 2Cor3:6-11

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul did not write one thing about keeping ritual laws found in the Sinai covenant. Yes the ten were important to the Israelites just as the Royal Law of Love is important to Christians. The ironic thing is that the ten commandments didn't mention anything about the greatest commands about loving God or our fellow man. Those commands are found in the book of the law.

Never did I say if only if you obey the Commandments will that get you in heaven. God is going to judge us according to our works. But He also says:

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Gods law is important to Him as clearly stated in the Bible. I guess we will all see when He comes. I want to keep Gods laws because I love Him and He asked us to.

As a FYI I like the New Kings James Version and I usually quote using NKJV. I like the KJV as well.

 

[DamianWarS]

AFAIK, it was a decision of the united nations to let the week begin with Monday.

It would be hard to find a calendar in Germany that does not place Monday as the first day of the week. And have you ever heard the term weekend? If one places the beginning of the new week between Saturday and Sunday, he would talk about a week's turning or so, but not week-end.
But I know that the Korean calendars my wife gets every new years place Sunday at the start of week.

And Canada/USA. The term "weekend" came before Monday was repositioned as the first day of the week. Just Google an old calendar of any country you wish and see what day is first. Somehow people figured out what weekend meant and still called Sunday the Christian Sabbath even though Sunday was the first day of the week. In modern Greek today the word used for Monday literally means "the second" (and Tuesday "the third", Wednesday "the fourth", etc...) so regardless where Monday is placed in Greece Sunday is implicitly first.

 

[eleos1954]

That's not answering the request. That's not an example of someone keeping the Sabbath prior to Moses. The word "Sabbath" is not even mentioned in that passage.

What does "any other commandment" mean to you? I means what it says ..... any other commandments.

It also doesn't say thou shalt not have any other gods before me ... not to take the Lords name in vain .... honor they mother and father etc.

Because it doesn't mention some (or specifically all) of the other 10 commandments does that mean we are to ignore them????? Of course not.

From Adam & Eve to Mt. Sinai the commandments were given orally until they were written (codified) and this is evidenced by the behavior of the people up to that time.

One Example: (and there are many)

Ezekiel 18:5-9
“If a man is righteous and does what is just and right— if he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols (commandment 1) of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor's wife (commandment 7) or approach a woman in her time of menstrual impurity, does not oppress anyone, but restores to the debtor his pledge, commits no robbery (commandment 8), gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment (love thy neighbor), does not lend at interest or take any profit, withholds his hand from injustice, executes true justice between man and man, walks in my statutes, and keeps my rules by acting faithfully—he is righteous; he shall surely live, declares the Lord God.

The way to behave (rules/statutes) is all over the OT .... and the correct behavior describes that within the 10 commandments.

Jesus taught from the OT.

James 1:17

Contemporary English Version
Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father who created all the lights in the heavens. He is always the same and never makes dark shadows by changing.

God does not change.

Where in His Word does is say the 7th day of the Lord thy God was changed by Jesus?

He created the day and is the only one who could change it.

On the contrary He kept the 7th day Sabbath (and declared Himself Lord of it) and so did all the apostles.

 

[eleos1954]

If a Gentile believes in Jesus then there are no other Gods. I am surprised that you would make that claim?

A Gentile is asked to love others as Christ has loved us. That is a commandment. That is divine love and a love that is not conditional.

Cain killing Abel was the opposite of love.

Theft is the opposite of love.

Jesus fulfilled the law not you.

Evidentially you are not reading my other posts ...

Yes, Jesus did fulfill the law, and we are not condemned by it, but that does not mean we are to continue in sin .... when a believer accepts Christ the Holy Spirit makes us aware of our sin ... and helps us to overcome it. It is the work of the Holy Spirit in the believer ..... NOT OUR works. They Holy Spirit brings us to repentance.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (He does the cleansing ... not us)

Are we to ignore the work HE does in us? No ... we give glory, honor and praise to the Lord for the work HE does in us. He reveals His will to us. What is His will? To turn from sin.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance (refrain from sin). What is sin? Transgression of the law.

How is love defined in relation to the Lord?

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

HIS work ...... not ours ...... Thank you Jesus for helping us overcome our sin. AMEN!

 

[eleos1954]

Of course He did - the old covenant and the Decalogue were in effect until Jesus died on the cross.

Decalogue is still in effect .... without the law ... we would not know what sin is.

 

[eleos1954]

The reason the Decalogue (Ten Commands) are no longer in effect, but have ended, is found in 2 Corinthians chapter three, wherein we find that the Ten Commands are: the ministration of DEATH, the letter which KILLS, and the ministration of CONDEMNATION which is contrasted with the new covenant (testament) of the spirit, that gives life.


2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glorywas to be done away:

2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Co 3:11 For if that which is DONE AWAY was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


The reason the Ten commands kills, brings death, and condemnation is due to the fact that the penalty under the law for breaking any of the Ten, was being put to death by stoning.


The penalty for killing - put to death:

Exo 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.


The penalty for not honoring your mother and father: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put todeath: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall beupon him.


The penalty for adultery: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another mans wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.


The penalty for breaking the sabbath by doing any work, such as picking up sticks for kindling: put to death by stoning:

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth anywork therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


If the Ten Commands are still in effect, the penalty for breaking them is still in effect, thus those who insist on keeping the ended covenant that contained the Ten Commands, are breaking the law themselves, by not stoning to death those who break the commands.


You can't have one without the other.

Imagine you were doing a ride along with a police officer, and you see that he ignores traffic law violations: speeding, running red lights, reckless driving, drunk driving, etc.


During the conversation you have with the officer, he says, "yes, I believe in the traffic laws. I keep those laws, myself - I just don't enforce them".


Sabbath day keepers, and Ten Commandment keepers are saying, those commands are still in effect and we keep them, but we don't enforce the law, as is required BY the law.


The ten commands ended when the old covenant ended, because the ten are called “the covenant on two tables of stone” in scripture - thus when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended with it - including the fourth command.


Invariably some people will claim that the new covenant is simply the old covenant restated, because they want to keep the 7th day command in effect, but that argument won’t hold water.


Scripture says the new covenant is a BETTER covenant, founded on BETTER PROMISES - not the old one recycled.


And says if the old one was faultless, there’d be no need for a new covenant.


The truth of the matter is, God rested on the seventh day one time only - not weekly - but did not command anyone else to keep a seventh day sabbath at that time.


You won’t find the word sabbath anywhere in Genesis, nor find Abraham or anyone else in Genesis resting on the 7th day - because there was no such command until God gave it to Israel as a covenant sign of His freeing them from slavery in Egypt, after their Exodus.


Moses said concerning the law God gave to Israel, which includes the Decalogue:


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT this covenant with our fathers, but with US even us, who are all of us here alive this day.


And God says why and to who He first gave the command to keep the 7th day:


Deu 5:15 And REMEMBER that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the LORD thy God commanded THEE to keep the sabbath day.


The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths YE shall keep: for it is a SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that ye May know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify YOU.


The Old Covenant ten has been replaced by the two love commands, neither of which include the requirement to keep the 7th day, or any day.


The two love commands are different from the old ten, because they are kept out of love, not out of fear of the punishment of death by stoning for breaking them.


Some fallacious arguments: Jesus kept the sabbath - of course He did, because the old covenant law was still in effect until He died on the cross.


Another one: Paul kept the sabbath over 80 times in Acts - Paul was found every sabbath preaching to the sabbath keeping Jews (who were only there to hear Paul evangelize on the 7th day), that Jesus is their Messiah.


If he preached in the synagogue on Sunday,he’d be preaching to empty seats.


The fact is, when the apostles assembled together for church, and to collect offerings, it was on the first day of the week:


Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first dayof the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace beunto you.


1Co 16:2 Upon the first dayof the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as Godhath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

***

The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.

God created the 7th day Sabbath .... placing His seal on His perfect creation week.

Blessed it and made it Holy (set apart from other days).

Genesis 2:3
So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

Jesus states the Sabbath was created for man (mankind .... not just the Jews). Sabbath keeping was in effect before Mt. Sinai ... that's why He said remember it .... remember from creation.

Mark 2:27

Berean Study Bible
Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Show me where Jesus said He changed that which He created and made holy?

If the 7th day sabbath is meaningless .... then why does Jesus state He is Lord of it? Why did He (even in His death) rest in the grave on the 7th day Sabbath? You think that was just "coincidence"? Even after His death the apostles kept the Sabbath ... did Jesus "forget" to tell them it wasn't required?

Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first dayof the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace beunto you.

Yes ... Jesus did appear to them (and to Mary as well) on the 1st day of the week ..... because He rested in the grave on the Sabbath (kept it) The verses says the apostles were gathered together out of fear.

The fact is, when the apostles assembled together for church, and to collect offerings, it was on the first day of the week:

You are adding to scripture ...... it does not say they assembled together for "church". They were to store it up .... have it ready ... set it aside.

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come.

The two love commands are different from the old ten, because they are kept out of love, not out of fear of the punishment of death by stoning for breaking them.

Matthew 22:40

Weymouth New Testament
The whole of the Law and the Prophets is summed up in these two Commandments."

ALL THE LAW is summed up (contained within) NOT done away with.

Another one: Paul kept the sabbath over 80 times in Acts - Paul was found every sabbath preaching to the sabbath keeping Jews (who were only there to hear Paul evangelize on the 7th day), that Jesus is their Messiah.

Gentiles attended synagog on the Sabbath as well.

Acts 13:42

New King James Version
So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

And says if the old one was faultless, there’d be no need for a new covenant.

What was faulty about it? The system could not save anybody. Shedding of animal blood is not sufficient.

The reason the sanctuary system was put in place was pointing to Jesus as the way to salvation. The system had no redeeming ability within it ... only Jesus saves. The Jews had gotten to the point where their trust was in the system and not in the Lord. The system and it's laws were put in place until the seed (promise) come .... and that seed was Jesus.

Galatians 3:19

New Living Translation
Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people.

The law in principle always existed, but it was codified in the context of Israel until Jesus came. Now that Jesus came, the law no longer comes to us as given to Israel, for there is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ (verse 28). It now comes to us as originally intended; as a moral principle that lives in us as Jesus. It is in this sense that the law was a schoolmaster. Our schoolmaster now Christ, who teaches us to live the principles of the law in our hearts.

The law is good .... the law stands.

Romans 7:12
So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

Matthew 5

17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[chad kincham]

Brother, here is the evidence that the "covenant" of the Sabbath is an unconditional "sign" of our relationship with God "forever".

The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’ ” (Exodus 31:16-17 NIV)​

Because in the next passage we learn that those of us who have "come in" are "part" of "all Israel" and are no longer Gentiles but Israelites.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. (Romans 11:25-31 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

If as you claim, that because we are supposedly spiritual Israel, that we are required to keep the sabbath, then we would be required to enforce the penalty for breaking the sabbath command as the same law requires be done, which is to Stone them to death.

The reason 2 Corinthians ch. 3 calls the ten commands given to Moses the letter that KILLS, the ministry of DEATH, and ministry of CONDEMNATION, is the penalty for breaking them is death by stoning.

God divorced Israel for spiritual adultery in Jeremiah 3:8 for adultery, which ended their covenant with God - and the Decalogue is called the COVENANT on two tables of stone - thus obviously when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended.

God allowed the Jewish temple to be destroyed because the mosaic covenant was no more, and ended the sabbaths:

Lam 2:5 The Lord was as an enemy: he hath swallowed up Israel, he hath swallowed up all her palaces: he hath destroyed his strong holds, and hath increased in the daughter of Judah mourning and lamentation.

Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and SABBATHS to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Lam 2:7 The Lord hath cast off his altar, he hath abhorred his sanctuary, he hath given up into the hand of the enemy the walls of her palaces; they have made a noise in the house of the LORD, as in the day of a solemn feast.

And in Galatians ch 4, Paul contrasts the two covenants, calling the one from Mount SINAI bondage.

Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?

Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman.

Gal 4:23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise.

Gal 4:24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount SINAI, bearing children for SLAVERY; she is Hagar.

Gal 4:25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the PRESENT JERUSALEM for she is in slavery with her children.

Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem ABOVE is free, and SHE is our mother.

Gal 4:27 For it is written, “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.”

Gal 4:28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Gal 4:29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now.

Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”

Gal 4:31 So, brothers, we are not children of the SLAVE but of the free woman.

The old covenant from Mount Sinai represents bondage, but we are under the new covenant.

In Acts 15:5 there were those claiming gentile believers must be circumcised AND KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES.

Peter responding to that, calls the law of Moses a yoke of bondage.

Act 15:7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Act 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,

Act 15:9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

Act 15:10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

Their conclusion after meeting together over the claim gentiles must keep the law of Moses, was:

Act 15:19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,

Act 15:20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

Brother, here is the evidence that the "covenant" of the Sabbath is an unconditional "sign" of our relationship with God "forever".

The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’ ” (Exodus 31:16-17 NIV)​

Because in the next passage we learn that those of us who have "come in" are "part" of "all Israel" and are no longer Gentiles but Israelites.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. (Romans 11:25-31 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, here is the evidence that the "covenant" of the Sabbath is an unconditional "sign" of our relationship with God "forever".

The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’ ” (Exodus 31:16-17 NIV)​

Because in the next passage we learn that those of us who have "come in" are "part" of "all Israel" and are no longer Gentiles but Israelites.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. (Romans 11:25-31 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[TruthSeek3r]

What does "any other commandment" mean to you? I means what it says ..... any other commandments.

You were citing Romans 13:9, which 1) belongs to the New Testament and 2) is talking about love as the essence of all moral commandments. Instead, I requested evidence of anyone keeping the Sabbath prior to Moses (which belongs to the Old Testament). So, no, you didn't answer the request.

It also doesn't say thou shalt not have any other gods before me ... not to take the Lords name in vain .... honor they mother and father etc.

Because it doesn't mention some (or specifically all) of the other 10 commandments does that mean we are to ignore them????? Of course not.

1) You keep insisting that there are only 10 commandments, when in reality you have 613 commandments to deal with, all ordained by God. As I already pointed out before, the two most important commandments are not even among those ten. I'll copy paste from a previous post:

Deuteronomy 6:4-5
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: 5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Leviticus 19:18
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

According to Jesus these are the two most important commandments of the Law, and they are not found among the 10 commandments:

Matthew 22:35-40
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.​

2) Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, I agree with you on this one, but that's it, you can't go further than that. I asked you for evidence of Sabbath observance prior to Moses, and you only provided evidence of a few moral laws being observed. You can't go from that and conclude that the Sabbath was observed, just like you can't conclude that any other of the Law's 613 commandments was also observed. Claiming that the Sabbath was observed prior to Moses 1) lacks evidence and 2) is just cherry picking a single commandment out of 613 for personal convenience.

From Adam & Eve to Mt. Sinai the commandments were given orally until they were written (codified) and this is evidenced by the behavior of the people up to that time.

Again, you only provided evidence of this for a few moral commandments, but nothing for any of the other 613 commandments (the Sabbath one included).

One Example: (and there are many)

Ezekiel 18:5-9
“If a man is righteous and does what is just and right— if he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols (commandment 1) of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor's wife (commandment 7) or approach a woman in her time of menstrual impurity, does not oppress anyone, but restores to the debtor his pledge, commits no robbery (commandment 8), gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment (love thy neighbor), does not lend at interest or take any profit, withholds his hand from injustice, executes true justice between man and man, walks in my statutes, and keeps my rules by acting faithfully—he is righteous; he shall surely live, declares the Lord God.

The way to behave (rules/statutes) is all over the OT .... and the correct behavior describes that within the 10 commandments.

Ezekiel is a post-Moses example, not pre-Moses. Any evidence of Sabbath observance prior to Moses?

Jesus taught from the OT.

James 1:17

Contemporary English Version
Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father who created all the lights in the heavens. He is always the same and never makes dark shadows by changing.

God does not change.

Where in His Word does is say the 7th day of the Lord thy God was changed by Jesus?

By the same token, circumcision couldn't have changed either. Therefore, all males should get circumcised physically, because there is no way God could have changed his mind from a literal meaning to a spiritual meaning ... oh wait.

He created the day and is the only one who could change it.

On the contrary He kept the 7th day Sabbath (and declared Himself Lord of it) and so did all the apostles.

Jesus was under the old covenant, so surely he obeyed it. And perfectly so. However, as far as I'm aware, there is no mandate to observe the Sabbath for evangelized Gentiles in the new covenant. Quite the contrary:

Acts 15:23-29
23 with the following letter: “The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers[c] who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you[d] with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, 25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Romans 14:5-9
5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

 

[JohnT]

We are saved by grace, but God clearly asks us to obey His law. Grace alone will not save you. God asks us us to "do". Why is there so many references in the bible on Gods law? This includes the 4th Commandment that is the only Commandment that references "Holy" and "Blessed

There you have it, folks: the the nutshell of their theology:

1. "Grace" is available ONLY if you obey their idea of the Law.
2. Grace alone is insufficient for salvation of anyone.
3. Go to church on no other day than Saturday.

 

[guevaraj]

God divorced Israel for spiritual adultery in Jeremiah 3:8 for adultery, which ended their covenant with God - and the Decalogue is called the COVENANT on two tables of stone - thus obviously when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended.

Brother, that passage doesn't refer to "all Israel". After Solomon, the nation divided into two camps: the largest with 10 tribes known as Israel and the smallest with two tribes known as Judah. The passage you mentioned speaks of the lost tribes of Israel who never returned after the Babylonian exile. Only the part of the nation known as Judah returned after 70 years and rebuild the temple. What duelists who think we are still Gentiles forget is that not "all Israel" rejected Jesus. There is a "part" of "all Israel" that remained faithful to God and we have "come in" to the "part" of "all Israel" that accepted Jesus. Romans 11:25-31 reveals that those of us who have "come in" are "part" of "all Israel" and are no longer Gentiles but Israelites.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. (Romans 11:25-31 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge