Any scriptural evidence that evangelized Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath?

[George95]

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[chad kincham]

Is there any evidence in the Bible indicating that evangelized Gentiles are expected to keep the Sabbath? If not, is there any scriptural evidence against it? Or are the Scriptures rather silent in this regard?

The reason the Decalogue (Ten Commands) are no longer in effect, but have ended, is found in 2 Corinthians chapter three, wherein we find that the Ten Commands are: the ministration of DEATH, the letter which KILLS, and the ministration of CONDEMNATION which is contrasted with the new covenant (testament) of the spirit, that gives life.


2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Co 3:11 For if that which is DONE AWAY was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


The reason the Ten commands kills, brings death, and condemnation is due to the fact that the penalty under the law for breaking any of the Ten, was being put to death by stoning.


The penalty for killing - put to death:

Exo 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.


The penalty for not honoring your mother and father: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put todeath: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall beupon him.


The penalty for adultery: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with anotherman's wife, even hethat committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.


The penalty for breaking the sabbath by doing any work, such as picking up sticks for kindling: put to death by stoning:

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it isholy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth anywork therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


If the Ten Commands are still in effect, the penalty for breaking them is still in effect, thus those who insist on keeping the ended covenant that contained the Ten Commands, are breaking the law themselves, by not stoning to death those who break the commands.


You can't have one without the other.

Imagine you were doing a ride along with a police officer, and you see that he ignores traffic law violations: speeding, running red lights, reckless driving, drunk driving, etc.


During the conversation you have with the officer, he says, "yes, I believe in the traffic laws. I keep those laws, myself - I just don't enforce them".


Sabbath day keepers, and Ten Commandment keepers are saying, those commands are still in effect and we keep them, but we don't enforce the law, as is required BY the law.


The ten commands ended when the old covenant ended, because the ten are called “the covenant on two tables of stone” in scripture - thus when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended with it - including the fourth command.


Invariably some people will claim that the new covenant is simply the old covenant restated, because they want to keep the 7th day command in effect, but that argument won’t hold water.


Scripture says the new covenant is a BETTER covenant, founded on BETTER PROMISES - not the old one recycled.


And says if the old one was faultless, there’d be no need for a new covenant.


The truth of the matter is, God rested on the seventh day one time only - not weekly - but did not command anyone else to keep a seventh day sabbath at that time.


You won’t find the word sabbath anywhere in Genesis, nor find Abraham or anyone else in Genesis resting on the 7th day - because there was no such command until God gave it to Israel as a covenant sign of His freeing them from slavery in Egypt, after their Exodus.


Moses said concerning the law God gave to Israel, which includes the Decalogue:


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT this covenant with our fathers, but with US even-us, who are all of us here alive this day.


And God says why and to who He first gave the command to keep the 7th day:


Deu 5:15 And REMEMBER that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the LORD thy God commanded THEE to keep the sabbath day.


The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths YE shall keep: for it is a SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that ye May know that I amthe LORD that doth sanctify YOU.


The Old Covenant ten has been replaced by the two love commands, neither of which include the requirement to keep the 7th day, or any day.


The two love commands are different from the old ten, because they are kept out of love, not out of fear of the punishment of death by stoning for breaking them.


Some fallacious arguments: Jesus kept the sabbath - of course He did, because the old covenant law was still in effect until He died on the cross.


Another one: Paul kept the sabbath over 80 times in Acts - Paul was found every sabbath preaching to the sabbath keeping Jews (who were only there to hear Paul evangelize on the 7th day), that Jesus is their Messiah.


If he preached in the synagogue on Sunday,he’d be preaching to empty seats.


The fact is, when the apostles assembled together for church, and to collect offerings, it was on the first day of the week:


Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first dayof the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace beunto you.


1Co 16:2 Upon the first dayof the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as Godhath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

 

[JohnT]

I used to feel condemned because I did things on saturdays like switch on central heAting or cook a.simple meal or do any we had activities

YOU NAILED IT!

The whole thing about the pseudo spiritual reasons for maintaining the Sabbath is to produce false condemnation and an overwhelming sense of guilt that one feels defeated, dejected, and unworthy of the love of God.

Many adherents of that group promoting those ideas hold up an impossible ideal: perfection as the way to merit the favor of God. Collectively, they are law mongers, having no sense of love and grace.

Romans 8 (IN CONTEXT)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Therefore, what matters most to God is not our accomplishments; rather, it is our intentions.
Paul states the same principle, but in a different context:

2 Corinthians 5:
1 We want you to know, brothers, about the grace of God that has been given among the churches of Macedonia,
2 for in a severe test of affliction, their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part.
3 For they gave according to their means, as I can testify, and beyond their means, of their own free will,
4 begging us earnestly for the favor of taking part in the relief of the saints—
5 and this, not as we expected, but they gave themselves first to the Lord and then by the will of God to us.
6 Accordingly, we urged Titus that as he had started, so he should complete among you this act of grace.

The God of the Bible is not a stingy accountant; instead, He is a rich grace giver. Here is proof (and why I believe that people from that church unknowingly worship a false god.

Romans 8:
God's Everlasting Love

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
36 As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

[Indeed, SINCE God is for us, then WHO is it that condemns us? It is the ENEMY of our soul.

If anyone nudges those 2 sentences above a little further, then they can see the basis for my objections to that theology. ]

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[chad kincham]

JESUS kept the Sabbath.

Follow His steps ... or not.

Of course He did - the old covenant and the Decalogue were in effect until Jesus died on the cross.

 

[chad kincham]

Keeping the Sabbath isn't a convenience ... it's in the heart of the 10 commandments.

Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath (even in His death).

1 Peter 2:21

21For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in His footsteps:

Simple ...

Choose to follow the Lamb ..... or not.

The reason the Decalogue (Ten Commands) are no longer in effect, but have ended, is found in 2 Corinthians chapter three, wherein we find that the Ten Commands are: the ministration of DEATH, the letter which KILLS, and the ministration of CONDEMNATION which is contrasted with the new covenant (testament) of the spirit, that gives life.


2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glorywas to be done away:

2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Co 3:11 For if that which is DONE AWAY was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


The reason the Ten commands kills, brings death, and condemnation is due to the fact that the penalty under the law for breaking any of the Ten, was being put to death by stoning.


The penalty for killing - put to death:

Exo 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.


The penalty for not honoring your mother and father: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put todeath: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall beupon him.


The penalty for adultery: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another mans wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.


The penalty for breaking the sabbath by doing any work, such as picking up sticks for kindling: put to death by stoning:

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth anywork therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


If the Ten Commands are still in effect, the penalty for breaking them is still in effect, thus those who insist on keeping the ended covenant that contained the Ten Commands, are breaking the law themselves, by not stoning to death those who break the commands.


You can't have one without the other.

Imagine you were doing a ride along with a police officer, and you see that he ignores traffic law violations: speeding, running red lights, reckless driving, drunk driving, etc.


During the conversation you have with the officer, he says, "yes, I believe in the traffic laws. I keep those laws, myself - I just don't enforce them".


Sabbath day keepers, and Ten Commandment keepers are saying, those commands are still in effect and we keep them, but we don't enforce the law, as is required BY the law.


The ten commands ended when the old covenant ended, because the ten are called “the covenant on two tables of stone” in scripture - thus when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended with it - including the fourth command.


Invariably some people will claim that the new covenant is simply the old covenant restated, because they want to keep the 7th day command in effect, but that argument won’t hold water.


Scripture says the new covenant is a BETTER covenant, founded on BETTER PROMISES - not the old one recycled.


And says if the old one was faultless, there’d be no need for a new covenant.


The truth of the matter is, God rested on the seventh day one time only - not weekly - but did not command anyone else to keep a seventh day sabbath at that time.


You won’t find the word sabbath anywhere in Genesis, nor find Abraham or anyone else in Genesis resting on the 7th day - because there was no such command until God gave it to Israel as a covenant sign of His freeing them from slavery in Egypt, after their Exodus.


Moses said concerning the law God gave to Israel, which includes the Decalogue:


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT this covenant with our fathers, but with US even us, who are all of us here alive this day.


And God says why and to who He first gave the command to keep the 7th day:


Deu 5:15 And REMEMBER that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the LORD thy God commanded THEE to keep the sabbath day.


The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths YE shall keep: for it is a SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that ye May know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify YOU.


The Old Covenant ten has been replaced by the two love commands, neither of which include the requirement to keep the 7th day, or any day.


The two love commands are different from the old ten, because they are kept out of love, not out of fear of the punishment of death by stoning for breaking them.


Some fallacious arguments: Jesus kept the sabbath - of course He did, because the old covenant law was still in effect until He died on the cross.


Another one: Paul kept the sabbath over 80 times in Acts - Paul was found every sabbath preaching to the sabbath keeping Jews (who were only there to hear Paul evangelize on the 7th day), that Jesus is their Messiah.


If he preached in the synagogue on Sunday,he’d be preaching to empty seats.


The fact is, when the apostles assembled together for church, and to collect offerings, it was on the first day of the week:


Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first dayof the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace beunto you.


1Co 16:2 Upon the first dayof the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as Godhath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Sin that carries a death sentence.

Cursing God, Leviticus 24:10–16

Women brides who are not virgins, Deuteronomy 22:13–21

Sexual intercourse between a man and a woman engaged to another man in a town, since she did not cry out, Deuteronomy 22:23-24; both parties should be stoned to death.

Forced sexual intercourse between a man and a woman engaged to another man in a field, where no one could hear her cries and save her, Deuteronomy 22:25-27; the man should be stoned.

Sexual intercourse between two men, Leviticus 20:13.

You do realize that is old testament and those crimes no longer carry those punishments?

Also, unless one chooses to sin as such as a lifestyle, never asking forgiveness, all those sins are forgivable.

 

[DamianWarS]

I know in advance that you will not accept this, but you are using the wrong word "conflating" Also, because the advent of the church worshiping on Sunday can be found on the Day of the feast of Pentecost.

It was on a Sunday that Holy Spirit came upon the Disciples (Acts 2) FYI Pentecost is ALWAYS on the 50th day following the last Sabbath in the 8 day feast of Passover. The 50th day after any Saturday is ALWAYS on a Sunday.

Therefore, why did God create that day for the beginning of the church and you SDA folk mistakenly say that we are to worship on Saturday?

I'm not SDA. Sunday is reserved for new beginnings it's the first day of creation and the first day Christ is resurrected. God utters first "Let there be light" on Sunday and this foreshadows Christ as he is our light. This is why it is called the day of the Lord or the Lord's day and why we celebrate Christ on this day.

Sabbath is a day of rest that is Friday Sundown to Saturday sundown. In greek still today the name for Friday is literally preparation day. Saturday is Sabbath and Sunday is literally "The Lord's Day". I don't keep the Sabbath according to the law but what I do know is Sunday is not the Sabbath.

 

[Aussie Pete]

They are referring to ceremonial laws not the Sabbath: Best explanation is here:Doesn't Colossians 2:14 wipe out the weekly Sabbath? | Sabbath Truth

Let’s first take a look at the apostle Paul's words in Colossians 2:14–17: “Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. … So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.”

When some read about the sabbath days that were shadows and that passed away at the cross, they think that Paul was referring to the weekly Sabbath, the fourth of the Ten Commandments. Is this accurate? It’s important to get this right, because our interpretation of the apostle’s actual meaning can lead us into deeper truth or into deeper error.


Two Sabbaths


First, there is nothing in the Ten Commandment law about food, drink, festivals, new moons, or sabbath days (plural). All these were actually separate laws that God gave for the physical and spiritual health of His Old Testament people; these were called ceremonial laws.


Second, Paul wrote plainly that he was speaking of “sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come,” and not of the weekly Sabbath, which is a memorial of something that happened in the past, at the creation. The contrast between a shadow and a memorial is quite clear. Indeed, the fourth commandment does not tell us to keep the seventh day as a type of something to come. It says: “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. ... For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it” (Exodus 20:8, 11).

Moreover, to show that he had something other than the weekly Sabbath in mind, Paul distinctly mentioned “sabbaths,” plural,” which are a shadow of things to come.” (The word “sabbath” in the Greek can be singular or plural according to Strong’s and Greek lexicons.)


Festivals and Shadows


The King James uses the word “holyday,” and some will contend that it refers to the weekly Sabbath, while the expression “sabbath days” refers to yearly sabbaths. The American Standard Version uses “feast day” instead of “holyday,” and this likely a clearer translation. The word translated “holyday” is from the Greek heorte, and in John 5:1, this same word is used to designate one of the yearly festivals of the Jews: “After this there was a feast [heorte] of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.” This is one of the holy days that Paul spoke of as having been nailed to the cross.


The “shadows” Paul mentions pointed to Jesus as a Savior from sin and were observed with that in mind. But the weekly Sabbath was made for man before sin entered into the world, before man would need atonement. The shadows pointing forward to His death as an atonement for sin certainly were not instituted until after sin. Therefore, since the weekly Sabbath was instituted before sin, just as was the marriage institution, it was not a shadow of Christ’s death as a Savior from sin; and His death did not end the Sabbath day any more than it brought marriage to an end. Both the Sabbath and marriage came to us in a perfect world.

Paul’s language shows he was referencing the shadowy ceremonies that pointed forward to and ended at the cross. Notice again, carefully, his words in Colossians 2:14: “Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.” Paul mentions that these laws were “against us” and “contrary” to us. Would it be contrary to Christians to refrain from idolatry, using God’s name in vain, dishonoring parents, murder, theft, adultery, lying, and coveting—the sins rebuked by the Ten Commandments? Thus, the apostle must have been talking of another law—a law that enjoined food offerings, drink offerings, the observance of festivals, new moons, and yearly sabbaths.


Why Are These Laws Contrary to Us?


Why would the observance of these ceremonies after the death of Christ be contrary to the Christian faith? The yearly sabbath of the Passover involved killing a lamb that represented Jesus, the Lamb of God. The apostle Paul taught directly, “Indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us" (1 Corinthians 5:7). Thus, to keep offering a sacrificial lamb after His death would be to imply that Jesus had not accomplished atonement. Such an observance would be contrary to the teachings of Christianity.


Many other shadowy requirements of the ceremonial law pointed to the death of Jesus on the cross, as well. All these festivals, food and drink offerings, and sabbaths that were nailed to the cross, Paul declared to be “a shadow of things to come.” Then he adds, "But the substance is of Christ." That is, the substance that cast these shadows was Christ’s body on the cross.

Think of it this way—late in the afternoon when a tall tree casts its shadow eastward, one can begin at the farthest end of the shadow and follow it until he or she gets to the tree that casts the shadow, and there the shadow ceases to be. Likewise, we can go back to the time when “through one man [Adam] sin entered the world, and death through sin,” and there a merciful God promised to send a Redeemer (Genesis 3:15), a Substitute, to die in man’s place. To keep man continually reminded of this fact, and to supply him with a means of expressing his faith in the coming sacrifice, God instituted these ceremonies. All of these were included in the law that was not written on tables of stone.

Follow these shadowy ceremonies all the way from Eden to the time of Moses, and then through the wilderness journey and on for hundreds of years after the settlement in Canaan, and at last to Calvary—and there they cease. So it would be "against us" and "contrary" to our faith to observe these ceremonies after Jesus' death. Not so with the other law. It is just as necessary to refrain from idolatry, using God’s name in vain, dishonoring the Sabbath, murder, adultery, and theft after the cross as before. Indeed, it was the violation of these principles that caused the death of Christ. Could they have been set aside or changed to accommodate the carnal mind, Jesus need not have died.

Now with these truths before us, let us again read Colossians 2:14–17 and see how plainly Paul revealed that he did not mean that the weekly seventh-day Sabbath had been nailed to the cross: "Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. … So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."

Sorry, I disagree. This morning, after our meeting, (It's Sunday here) I had to clean up after the cat. Is that working on the Sabbath? For sure it is. Do I care? Not in the least. The Sabbath was made for me, not for God. I'll be going to the supermarket today because they had run out of what I wanted last night. Sabbatarians would not dream of such disobedience. I live by grace, not by law. God's standards are way higher than the 10 commandments. They were put in place to lead us to Christ. The Law is the shadow, not the reality (Hebrews 10:1), it is not based on faith (Galatians 3:12), it is for sinners (1 Timothy 1:9-11), not saints. I'll not kowtow to modern day Pharisees who want to enslave me. Lord Jesus gives me liberty, not to do as I please, but to be led by the Spirit. Love, joy, peace.......... there is no law against those things.

 

[guevaraj]

Is there any evidence in the Bible indicating that evangelized Gentiles are expected to keep the Sabbath? If not, is there any scriptural evidence against it? Or are the Scriptures rather silent in this regard?

Brother, here is the evidence that the "covenant" of the Sabbath is an unconditional "sign" of our relationship with God "forever".

The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’ ” (Exodus 31:16-17 NIV)​

Because in the next passage we learn that those of us who have "come in" are "part" of "all Israel" and are no longer Gentiles but Israelites.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. (Romans 11:25-31 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You won’t find the word sabbath anywhere in Genesis

The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.

The fact is, when the apostles assembled together for church, and to collect offerings, it was on the first day of the week.

Really? Genesis 2:3...
The first day you could handle money, not on Shabbat

 

[helmut]

Then please forgive me cultural ignorance.

AFAIK, it was a decision of the united nations to let the week begin with Monday.

It would be hard to find a calendar in Germany that does not place Monday as the first day of the week. And have you ever heard the term weekend? If one places the beginning of the new week between Saturday and Sunday, he would talk about a week's turning or so, but not week-end.
But I know that the Korean calendars my wife gets every new years place Sunday at the start of week.

 

[helmut]

Brother, here is the evidence that the "covenant" of the Sabbath is an unconditional "sign" of our relationship with God "forever".

A covenant between God and the people of Israel. So if you are Jewish, it is your covenant (see Rom 9:4). If you are not Jewish, are are outside of this covenant, unless you get circumcised (or get a proselyte bath, if you are woman). It is the new covenant which breaks down the difference between Jews and Gentiles, Jewish and Gentile Christian (Eph 2:11-21).

Yes, the covenant with Israel is forever, this race will not perish until the end of times (Mt 24:34). But this does not mean that the signs of this covenant will be the signs of the New covenant.

 

[Tony B]

There is no verse in the Bible that tells us gentiles to keep the Sabbath. In fact when you look at Acts 15:28-29 the Apostles gave the gentiles only the following orders:
"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things."

But there is a passage in Isaiah 56 that reads like this:

"Let no foreigner who is bound to the Lord say, “The Lord will surely exclude me from his people.” And let no eunuch complain, “I am only a dry tree.” For this is what the Lord says: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant — to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will endure forever.
And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord to minister to him, to love the name of the Lord, and to be his servants, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant — these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

That's a valuable passage, don't you think?

And consider this as well: even if we gentiles were not "forced" to keep the Sabbath - would it not be a much better testimony to other people to keep it? If the people around us see us working on Sundays while we claim to be Christians, they would think we don't take God very seriously and we would be negligent with other commands as well. Simply because "keeping the Sabbath" is like the best known "Christian rule".

Plus, according to 1Jn 2:6 we shall live as Jesus did. And Jesus kept the Sabbath (except when He did good works, healing people and such). So, the priority-list might look like this:
1) Helping our neighbour on Sabbath if he really needs it
2) Resting on Sabbath

I thought 'there is no longer Jew nor Gentile', but 'we are all made one in Christ Jesus'. That being the case, won't the rules apply to all.

 

[Tony B]

And Jesus also got circumcised

That's an Old Testament Covernant requirement, there is now a new Covernant, a New Testament...the old Covernant has been fulfilled by One, and a new Covernant has been established with faith in The One as its base, not works of religious law.

 

[helmut]

But the Messiah's statement in Matthew 24:20 seems to suggest that the full reality of the Sabbath day has yet to be revealed.

Matthew 24 is about to questions asked by the disciples:

Mt 24:1 ... “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.” 3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

We should carefully distinguish what in Mt 24 is about the time of the destruction of Jerusalem (70 AD) and what about the end of times. Jesus Himself seems to have been unsure about this distinction:

Mrt 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. [This is about 70 AD] 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. 36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. [This seems to be about the end of the world]

So, to which time belong the advice to pray so the flight from Jerusalem will not be on a Sabbath? Certainly to 70 AD, and this is an advice for Jews. The Church remembered the words of Jesus and fled from Jerusalem, while the Jews who fled into Jerusalem were slaughtered or enslaved in 70 AD.

 

[JohnT]

I'm not SDA. Sunday is reserved for new beginnings it's the first day of creation and the first day Christ is resurrected. God utters first "Let there be light" on Sunday and this foreshadows Christ as he is our light. This is why it is called the day of the Lord or the Lord's day and why we celebrate Christ on this day.

Sabbath is a day of rest that is Friday Sundown to Saturday sundown. In greek still today the name for Friday is literally preparation day. Saturday is Sabbath and Sunday is literally "The Lord's Day". I don't keep the Sabbath according to the law but what I do know is Sunday is not the Sabbath.

I was attempting to make the case for Sunday worship and I see I was not as successful as I thought. Those from that church condemn everyone who does not do as they do, scornfully calling them names "Sunday Worshipers" etc. that sometimes there is a "bleed over" My apologies for confusion.

 

[JohnT]

You do realize that is old testament and those crimes no longer carry those punishments?

Also, unless one chooses to sin as such as a lifestyle, never asking forgiveness, all those sins are forgivable.

You REALLY have to wonder at the absence of joy and grace that comes from a church that seems to ENJOY condemning others; attempting to have adherents knuckle under their child-like name-calling when others do not do things as the "perfect church" does.

Oh, yes, I really want to be a slave to their man-made rules to be perfect.

BTW Where is the "sarcasm emoticon"?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sorry, I disagree. This morning, after our meeting, (It's Sunday here) I had to clean up after the cat. Is that working on the Sabbath? For sure it is. Do I care? Not in the least. The Sabbath was made for me, not for God. I'll be going to the supermarket today because they had run out of what I wanted last night. Sabbatarians would not dream of such disobedience. I live by grace, not by law. God's standards are way higher than the 10 commandments. They were put in place to lead us to Christ. The Law is the shadow, not the reality (Hebrews 10:1), it is not based on faith (Galatians 3:12), it is for sinners (1 Timothy 1:9-11), not saints. I'll not kowtow to modern day Pharisees who want to enslave me. Lord Jesus gives me liberty, not to do as I please, but to be led by the Spirit. Love, joy, peace.......... there is no law against those things.

We are saved by grace, but God clearly asks us to obey His law. Grace alone will not save you. God asks us us to "do". Why is there so many references in the bible on Gods law? This includes the 4th Commandment that is the only Commandment that references "Holy" and "Blessed". The only one that starts with the word "Remember" and yet every seems to think this is the one Commandment that was done away with. God wrote his Holy law on stone to be everlasting. This is not just the Lord's day it was also made for man Mark 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

Gods law/commandments is repeated over and over. Take a look for yourself. If it wasn't that important to God, it would not be written in the Bible so many times. Here are just a few- I am not sure how it can get more clearer than these scriptures.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Mathew 5:19
Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

Mathew 19:17
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

2 John 1:6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I was attempting to make the case for Sunday worship and I see I was not as successful as I thought. Those from that church condemn everyone who does not do as they do, scornfully calling them names "Sunday Worshipers" etc. that sometimes there is a "bleed over" My apologies for confusion.

It has nothing to with what any man says you should do or not do. The only voice that matters is what God asks us to do.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That's an Old Testament Covernant requirement, there is now a new Covernant, a New Testament...the old Covernant has been fulfilled by One, and a new Covernant has been established with faith in The One as its base, not works of religious law.

No where in the New Testament states Gods law was done away with- hence why its repeated even in the last chapter of the Bible.
Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The New Covenant was to confirm Gods law in our hearts. Not to obey because it was a "legal requirement" because we love God and want to keep His Commandments.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.