Paul Reveals the timing of Revelation 20

[sovereigngrace]

sovereign grace,

1. You are grasping at straws.

2. I never said I was totally dependent on Revelation 20 for the position of the rapture and second coming. It is definitive of who is in the First Resurrection when it only mentions the martyrs. Are you going to deny this?
Are you going to say living believers and dead believers are in a plain statement in the book of Revelation when they are not?
You can’t say yes to these two questions unless you spiritualize it away.
Jerrykelso

The first resurrection occurred 2000 years ago. You deny that victorious reality in order to support Pretrib.

Where is your Pretrib rapture in Revelation?
Where is your 7-year trib in Revelation?
Where is your 3rd coming in Revelation?

 

[sovereigngrace]

baberean2,

You misuse the Dispensational theology
and use it as a crutch to beat over the head and make false accusations by made up semantics that are either half truths or no truths.
You keep repeating the same mantras thinking they are going to stick and they won’t except to your same crowd.

2. The resurrection of the dead only is a literal statement of scripture in Revelation 20:4 you cannot refute.
You have to go further into deduction and build up straw men and all kinds of semantics and unfair posting shenanigans.
You don’t have to like the truth of the resurrection of the dead only or you don’t have to disagree but you can’t deny the truth of it.
The literal statement of Revelation 20:4 trumps the further deduction system you use in the cycle theory you use. Jerry kelso

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

The Greek word for "first" (as in first resurrection) is protos. It is a contracted superlative meaning foremost (in time, place, order and/or importance). So which is the "first" (or protos) resurrection - Christ's or the resurrection that occurs at the second coming? This is a pretty simply question.

Which is the foremost resurrection in time?
Which is the foremost resurrection in place?
Which is the foremost resurrection in order?
Which is the foremost resurrection in importance?

Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in time.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in place.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in order.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in importance.

Many overlook the phrase "hath part." Whatever that refers to will seal this debate. The unfortunate thing for Premils is that it is present tense. So whatever resurrection it is speaking of, believers currently have their "part" in it. Whatever “the first resurrection” is, participation in it qualifies humans’ to escape the horrors of eternal punishment (the second death). In this experience Christians identify with Christ’s victorious resurrection.

The Greek for “that hath part” is echo méros. The Greek verb echo correctly interpreted “that hath” in the King James Version is written in the present tense and in the active voice. Therefore, we can view the relevance and vitality of “the first resurrection” as being both current and ongoing. Christ’s victory over death is not simply a past event that has no active bearing upon what we are today; it is ongoing reality in the lives of God’s people. The Greek word translated “part” in the text is the word meros meaning share, allotment or portion. This reading tells us that all those that have come to the joy of saving faith in Christ have become partakers in the resurrection life, and through this will escape the horrors of the second death – eternal wrath.

This passage is describing the reality and result of our mystical union with Christ. The expression “in Christ” [Gr. en Christo] is found 216 times in the New Testament and refers to our federal and covenantal standing. It shows us that our spiritual status is totally derived from and dependent upon relationship with Christ.

 

[BABerean2]

The resurrection of the dead only is a literal statement of scripture in Revelation 20:4 you cannot refute.
You have to go further into deduction and build up straw men and all kinds of semantics and unfair posting shenanigans.
You don’t have to like the truth of the resurrection of the dead only or you don’t have to disagree but you can’t deny the truth of it.
The literal statement of Revelation 20:4 trumps the further deduction system you use in the cycle theory you use. Jerry kelso

If the resurrection at the beginning of Revelation 20 is supposed to be the "first" bodily resurrection of the dead found in the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John was very confused because the Two Witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in chapter 11.


Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.



Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


.

 

[jerry kelso]

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

The Greek word for "first" (as in first resurrection) is protos. It is a contracted superlative meaning foremost (in time, place, order and/or importance). So which is the "first" (or protos) resurrection - Christ's or the resurrection that occurs at the second coming? This is a pretty simply question.

Which is the foremost resurrection in time?
Which is the foremost resurrection in place?
Which is the foremost resurrection in order?
Which is the foremost resurrection in importance?

Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in time.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in place.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in order.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in importance.

Many overlook the phrase "hath part." Whatever that refers to will seal this debate. The unfortunate thing for Premils is that it is present tense. So whatever resurrection it is speaking of, believers currently have their "part" in it. Whatever “the first resurrection” is, participation in it qualifies humans’ to escape the horrors of eternal punishment (the second death). In this experience Christians identify with Christ’s victorious resurrection.

The Greek for “that hath part” is echo méros. The Greek verb echo correctly interpreted “that hath” in the King James Version is written in the present tense and in the active voice. Therefore, we can view the relevance and vitality of “the first resurrection” as being both current and ongoing. Christ’s victory over death is not simply a past event that has no active bearing upon what we are today; it is ongoing reality in the lives of God’s people. The Greek word translated “part” in the text is the word meros meaning share, allotment or portion. This reading tells us that all those that have come to the joy of saving faith in Christ have become partakers in the resurrection life, and through this will escape the horrors of the second death – eternal wrath.

This passage is describing the reality and result of our mystical union with Christ. The expression “in Christ” [Gr. en Christo] is found 216 times in the New Testament and refers to our federal and covenantal standing. It shows us that our spiritual status is totally derived from and dependent upon relationship with Christ.

S

If the resurrection at the beginning of Revelation 20 is supposed to be the "first" bodily resurrection of the dead found in the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John was very confused because the Two Witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in chapter 11.


Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.



Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


.

sovereign grace,

I see you can’t refute and cannot deny it is true.
The pre-trib rapture is beyond a shadow of the real biblical truth. Jerrykelso

 

[sovereigngrace]

S


sovereign grace,

I see you can’t refute and cannot deny it is true.
The pre-trib rapture is beyond a shadow of the real biblical truth. Jerrykelso

This is all words, with no evidence. This sums up Pretrib. No proof-texts, no supporting texts and no workable hermeneutics. But this post poignantly and symbolically shows what we are dealing with.

This avoidance will not cut it today. That is why your doctrine is on the ropes.

 

[sovereigngrace]

If the resurrection at the beginning of Revelation 20 is supposed to be the "first" bodily resurrection of the dead found in the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John was very confused because the Two Witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in chapter 11.

There are so many holes in Pretrib it is like a sieve.

 

[BABerean2]

The pre-trib rapture is beyond a shadow of the real biblical truth. Jerrykelso

Jerry,

You may have accidentally spoken the truth in your statement above.

The Pretrib doctrine is beyond the real biblical truth...


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


.

 

[jerry kelso]

This is all words, with no evidence. This sums up Pretrib. No proof-texts, no supporting texts and no workable hermeneutics. But this post poignantly and symbolically shows what we are dealing with.

This avoidance will not cut it today. That is why your doctrine is on the ropes.

sovereign grace,

1. My doctrine can’t be cut off if it is on the ropes.

2. Your doctrine’s wings are clipped off completely and cannot fly and it has crash landed no more to fly again. Jerrykelso

 

[sovereigngrace]

sovereign grace,

1. My doctrine can’t be cut off if it is on the ropes.

2. Your doctrine’s wings are clipped off completely and cannot fly and it has crash landed no more to fly again. Jerrykelso

All the talk means nothing on forums like this, it is biblical evidence that speaks. You have dismissed repeated and clear Scripture that demonstrates a climactic return of Christ. You have presented nothing to support your opinion.

It is time to finally cough up your evidence:

Where exactly is your Scripture that teaches your theory of (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a further coming of Christ?

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry,

You may have accidentally spoken the truth in your statement above.

The Pretrib doctrine is beyond the real biblical truth...


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


.

baberean2,

1. I see you couldn’t refute the truth of the resurrection of the dead only in the book of Revelation.
You can’t refute and you can’t deny this scriptural truth.
You can’t show a literal statement that says the dead believers are resurrected with believing Christians either. Now you can’t refute these truths or deny these truth. If you can deny these truths with a Yes which you haven’t yet and never will.
Jerrykelso

 

[sovereigngrace]

baberean2,

1. I see you couldn’t refute the truth of the resurrection of the dead only in the book of Revelation.
You can’t refute and you can’t deny this scriptural truth.
You can’t show a literal statement that says the dead believers are resurrected with believing Christians either. Now you can’t refute these truths or deny these truth. If you can deny these truths with a Yes which you haven’t yet and never will.
Jerrykelso

What are you talking about? What is your point? It is as clear as mud.

 

[jerry kelso]

What are you talking about? What is your point? It is as clear as mud.

sovereign grace,

It is clear as mud, the only ones in the First Resurrection are the martyrs in Revelation 15:1-3 who sing their song of Moses and the Lamb at the throne before the 7 vials are poured out. That is evident in a plain scripture in Revelation 20:4-6. No living believers in a plain statement. That is the point.
Jerrykelso

 

[sovereigngrace]

sovereign grace,

It is clear as mud, the only ones in the First Resurrection are the martyrs in Revelation 15:1-3 who sing their song of Moses and the Lamb at the throne before the 7 vials are poured out. That is evident in a plain scripture in Revelation 20:4-6. No living believers in a plain statement. That is the point.
Jerrykelso

But the first resurrection is Rev 20, not Rev 15:1-3. Are there two 1st resurrections in your understanding?

 

[jerry kelso]

But the first resurrection is Rev 20, not Rev 15:1-3. Are there two 1st resurrections in your understanding?

sovereign grace,

1. They are in Heaven before the vials and there is no logical reason to happen right on the Day of the Lord.
They have to be at the marriage of the Lamb. When you understand the Hebraic perspective of the marriage you will understand why they have to be there for close to a year if not a year.

2. It is put in after the literal 1000 years has already started which mentions the Battle of Armageddon and the Beast and the false prophet being thrown in the lake of fire.
So it cannot happen before Armageddon like in your scenario.
The reason it is put there is to show that they will rule and reign for a 1000 years. So they are not resurrected right before Armageddon and coming back down and not after the start of the literal 1000 years. That makes no sense.

3. Even if you put the First Resurrection in your scenario all you have is the dead believers and the wicked which doesn’t really happen till the literal 1000 years is over with.

4. The conclusion is that the resurrection of the dead only is in in Revelation 20:4-6 to show they will rule and reign for the literal 1000 years and to show the resurrections are 1000 years apart.
Jerrykelso

 

[sovereigngrace]

sovereign grace,

1. They are in Heaven before the vials and there is no logical reason to happen right on the Day of the Lord.
They have to be at the marriage of the Lamb. When you understand the Hebraic perspective of the marriage you will understand why they have to be there for close to a year if not a year.

2. It is put in after the literal 1000 years has already started which mentions the Battle of Armageddon and the Beast and the false prophet being thrown in the lake of fire.
So it cannot happen before Armageddon like in your scenario.
The reason it is put there is to show that they will rule and reign for a 1000 years. So they are not resurrected right before Armageddon and coming back down and not after the start of the literal 1000 years. That makes no sense.

3. Even if you put the First Resurrection in your scenario all you have is the dead believers and the wicked which doesn’t really happen till the literal 1000 years is over with.

4. The conclusion is that the resurrection of the dead only is in in Revelation 20:4-6 to show they will rule and reign for the literal 1000 years and to show the resurrections are 1000 years apart.
Jerrykelso

So there are 2 first resurrections? Wow! And notably not one of them is the real first resurrection that occurred 2000 years ago.

Also, please don't tell me you are talking about a 7-day Jewish wedding myth that some Pretribbers invented to support their error. That is another aberration that has been exposed a long time ago as a hoax.

 

[jerry kelso]

So there are 2 first resurrections? Wow! And notably not one of them is the real first resurrection that occurred 2000 years ago.

Also, please don't tell me you are talking about a 7-day Jewish wedding myth that some Pretribbers invented to support their error. That is another aberration that has been exposed a long time ago as a hoax.

sovereign grace,

1. I’ve got to go to sleep now.

2. I will suffice to say it is not two first resurrections. That is a made up accusation to try and prove people wrong.

3. I told you before the First Resurrection is all the believers. Christ the firstfruits they that are Christ at his coming ( the pre-trib rapture for all those in Christ.
Tribulation saints are all martyrs except the 144,000 who are raptured to Heaven, and the two witnesses who are raptured to Heaven.
You think they all have to be at one time which is not true. They have to all be believers.
The wicked is different because they are all at one time.
The First Resurrection are all believers at different time.
The Second Resurrection are all sinners.
First Believers, Second unbelievers. Good night! Don’t be uptight believe the real truth and it will set you free. Jerrykelso

 

[sovereigngrace]

sovereign grace,

1. I’ve got to go to sleep now.

2. I will suffice to say it is not two first resurrections. That is a made up accusation to try and prove people wrong.

3. I told you before the First Resurrection is all the believers. Christ the firstfruits they that are Christ at his coming ( the pre-trib rapture for all those in Christ.
Tribulation saints are all martyrs except the 144,000 who are raptured to Heaven, and the two witnesses who are raptured to Heaven.
You think they all have to be at one time which is not true. They have to all be believers.
The wicked is different because they are all at one time.
The First Resurrection are all believers at different time.
The Second Resurrection are all sinners.
First Believers, Second unbelievers. Good night! Don’t be uptight believe the real truth and it will set you free. Jerrykelso

So there is an ongoing physical resurrection of tbe righteous happening for 7 years in between your supposed rapture and your 3rd coming?

 

[Timtofly]

That day the penitent thief would be with Him in spirit in Paradise.

The spirit is with God from conception. Are you in your spirit or do you have the Holy Spirit? Being spiritually dead means we are separated from our spirit. In Christ we do not get our spirit, we get the Holy Spirit, until the day we die, and then we are changed into an incorruptible body in Paradise. No one is joined to their spirit until the 5th and 6th seal in Revelation 6.

That day the thief's soul and incorruptible body was with God in Paradise. Flesh and blood cannot enter Paradise. Only a soul with an incorruptible body can enter Paradise. An incorruptible body was not available until the Cross. That is why all OT souls were in Abraham's bosom. Jesus won the victory over the sting of death. All OT and those in Christ, since the Cross, now have an incorruptible body free from the second death. They died physically, but death can not keep them in the ground, nor grave. Paul says in 2 Corinthians to be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord. And that is only possible in an incorruptible body.

 

[jerry kelso]

So there is an ongoing physical resurrection of tbe righteous happening for 7 years in between your supposed rapture and your 3rd coming?

sovereign grace,

I posted a couple of times and it didn’t go through.
I’ve also been moving and still unpacking.
Maybe a third time will be a blessing.

1. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23; Every man in his own order.
Jesus was the Firstfruits of resurrection, of those that fell asleep and raptured to Heaven.
There were some that resurrected at that time but not all.

2. They that are Christ at his coming are all that are in Christ which are the Old Testament saints and the church age saints who were perfected together in salvation by Calvary Hebrews 11:40.
This fits the Pre- trib rapture because the church is seen in Heaven before the tribulation Revelation 4:1; 9; 5:9-10. These two chapters show that the church is represented by the 24 elders for they will rule and reign on the earth.
Revelation 11:18 show the rewards of the saints and prophets in the middle of the tribulation.
They are in Heaven at the end in Revelation 19:7-10 at the marriage of the Lamb and are seen coming out of Heaven to do battle at Armageddon Revelation 19:11-15.

3. The Two Witnesses are killed and resurrected either in the middle of the tribulation or at the end of the tribulation depending on your reading.
Either way, it doesn’t matter they will be resurrected by themselves.

4. The 144,000 Jews will be sealed for protection through the trumpet judgements 9:4.
They will be raptured as the manchild in Revelation 12:6. for they are birthed by the sun clothed woman who is Israel.
The other part of her seed is called the remnant of her seed who have the testimony of Jesus verse 17.
Others believe they are the remnant which is impossible because they would be in the same company as the remnant of her seed verse17.
They were Firstfruits of the tribulation which means they were raised first before those in Revelation 15:1-3;20:4-6. Every man in his own order.

5. There are two appearings; coming for and coming with.
2 Thesssalonians 2:1
The coming of the Lord and our gathering together unto him.
Those that wrote and were trying to tell people they missed the gathering unto him by saying the Day of the Lord had already come. Wrong!!!!!!!
The day of the Lord had not come because the Lord had not come to gather them together which is the pre- trib rapture.
It doesn’t make any sense to insert a post rapture for the whole purpose is to come from Heaven to do battle.

6. Your 3 Comings are just ways to avoid the truth. Jerry kelso

 

[sovereigngrace]

sovereign grace,

I posted a couple of times and it didn’t go through.
I’ve also been moving and still unpacking.
Maybe a third time will be a blessing.

1. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23; Every man in his own order.
Jesus was the Firstfruits of resurrection, of those that fell asleep and raptured to Heaven.
There were some that resurrected at that time but not all.

Could you not answer yes or no instead of going round the world to say something still extremely ambiguous and hazy?

2. They that are Christ at his coming are all that are in Christ which are the Old Testament saints and the church age saints who were perfected together in salvation by Calvary Hebrews 11:40.

This fits the Pre- trib rapture because the church is seen in Heaven before the tribulation Revelation 4:1; 9; 5:9-10.

No it does not. It supports the Amil/Postmil and Posttrib/Premil views that the dead in Christ go to be with Christ upon death. This is a moot point.

These two chapters show that the church is represented by the 24 elders for they will rule and reign on the earth.

Really? So where is your physical rapture/resurrection in Revelation that sees the saints move from earth to heaven before a tribulation? Nowhere. You have to force that into the sacred text to support your beliefs. Where is the Church mentioned here? This totally negates a crucial Pretrib theory that the non-mention of the word ekklesia or “Church” in Revelation 6-19 proves they are not on earth, and are in fact raptured. This shows the duplicity of Pretrib.

Because Pretrib has nothing, they render the 24 elders the Church. This is classic eisegesis. There is nothing in Scripture that suggests this. The 24 elders actually expose The Pretrib apartheid - always trying to separate the people of God. The symbolism must refer to the joining of the Old Testament and New Testament saints upon death in some way. 12 tribes and 12 apostles are clearly in view.

Revelation 11:18 show the rewards of the saints and prophets in the middle of the tribulation.
They are in Heaven at the end in Revelation 19:7-10 at the marriage of the Lamb and are seen coming out of Heaven to do battle at Armageddon Revelation 19:11-15.

So, you have shown no rapture yet, you have no mention of the Church, yet, you insist on arguing Pretrib. You are building your whole paradigm upon nothing. That exposes the nonsensical nature of Pretrib. The whole theory is built upon silence.

Amil/Postmil and Posttrib/Premil sees the dead in Christ currently in heaven before the one and only second coming. This is happening now.

3. The Two Witnesses are killed and resurrected either in the middle of the tribulation or at the end of the tribulation depending on your reading.
Either way, it doesn’t matter they will be resurrected by themselves.

In the middle of your imaginary 7 year trib that you are unable to show.

You have zero proof for a 7 years trib between Revelation 4-19. It actually adds up to a period of 19 years, 4 ½ days and 3 hours.

4. The 144,000 Jews will be sealed for protection through the trumpet judgements 9:4.
They will be raptured as the manchild in Revelation 12:6. for they are birthed by the sun clothed woman who is Israel.
The other part of her seed is called the remnant of her seed who have the testimony of Jesus verse 17.

Others believe they are the remnant which is impossible because they would be in the same company as the remnant of her seed verse17.
They were Firstfruits of the tribulation which means they were raised first before those in Revelation 15:1-3;20:4-6. Every man in his own order.

Exactly, This woman is the Church. The Church has been ongoing since before Christ.

5. There are two appearings; coming for and coming with.

Here we go again: while sweeping statements and zero biblical evidence to support them. This is why every Bible believing Christian should reject Pretrib.

2 Thesssalonians 2:1
The coming of the Lord and our gathering together unto him.
Those that wrote and were trying to tell people they missed the gathering unto him by saying the Day of the Lord had already come. Wrong!!!!!!!
The day of the Lord had not come because the Lord had not come to gather them together which is the pre- trib rapture.

Really? Do you ever take the time to read what happens on the day of the Lord? Obviously not! Because if you did, you would immediately become an Amillennialist.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3 confirms this saying: “we which are alive and remain unto the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

This coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant shout. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations. I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s coming that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies. Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of this Coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful that none escape. That is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for the Pretrib theory of a subsequent 7yrs trib.

2 Peter 3:3-13 tells us: “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming [Gr. parousia]? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

How can anyone survive this? They cannot! It's impossible! Well the second coming is the end for the wicked, the righteous inherit the new heavens and new earth; not some suppose future thousand years that is polluted by sin, sinners, Satan, death and ongoing corruption. The appearing of Christ spells the end for all unrighteousness. Anything that is not glorified is consumed. Peter demonstrates here that when Jesus comes back the heavens, earth and all that is on the earth, and the elements are going to dissolve. His glory and unchallenged reign will be set up on the new renewed earth.

Revelation 20:11-15 – 21:1-5: “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away (or departed); and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away (or departed). And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”

Here is Christ returning enthroned, whereupon the general judgment occurs. This lines up with multiple Scripture of a general judgment at the second coming.

It doesn’t make any sense to insert a post rapture for the whole purpose is to come from Heaven to do battle.

It is taught throughout the Word.

6. Your 3 Comings are just ways to avoid the truth. Jerry kelso

Your 3 Comings are just ways to avoid the truth.