Proof the Earth is Flat

[Lost4words]

Not if the sun is to one side of the moon and further away from from earth than the moon. How can one section of a sphere (edge or not) be lit by the sun if the sun is not shining on that section? It seems to me that you are arguing a FE concept of the moon. A surface can only reflect the sun's light if the sun is shining on it.

And once again, where does the moon's light go in all the phases other than a full moon if the moon is self-luminous? If it is self-luminous, moon phases should not happen.

Totally agree.

 

[d taylor]

A person, "if the moon is a sphere lit by the sun", will see light emitting from all around the moon, regardless of the moons position. Because there is always an area of the moon in the full moon phase

The illustration show this. all the black dots on the shadow side will see light from all around the moon.

But in real life that is not seen showing that the moon 1. is not a sphere and 2, the moon is not lit by the sun.

 

[JacksBratt]

Here's a question...

The moon is at the "half moon phase". When the sun went down the illuminated portion of the moon was from the side the sun was on.. In other words, the illuminated side of the half moon faced west.

Later on, the moon, still in it's "half moon" phase still had the illuminated side facing west.

However, the sun, now much later, was moving down and underneath me. All the while the moon's illuminated side.. faced west..


If the sun is reflecting off of the moons surface.. as the night goes on and the sun moves down underneath me and, eventually, coming up in the east... Why does the illuminated part of the moon not follow the movement of the sun...

This would mean, eventually, when the sun is straight down below me.. the moon should be full again..

Then, continuing this scenario.. the moon should be a 3/4 moon with the illuminated side facing eastward..

Yet.. The moon moves across the sky.. in the half moon phase and it stays fixed.. the same half.. facing the same way... All the while the sun goes down around and underneath me.

 

[Phil G]

A person, "if the moon is a sphere lit by the sun", will see light emitting from all around the moon, regardless of the moons position. Because there is always an area of the moon in the full moon phase

The illustration show this. all the black dots on the shadow side will see light from all around the moon.

But in real life that is not seen showing that the moon 1. is not a sphere and 2, the moon is not lit by the sun.

View attachment 283305

The illustration you posted previously (and by the way it is also a poor illustration – how can the sky be dark in the daytime except by an eclipse??) which is supposed to be showing what the new moon should look like can only happen at a partial or total solar eclipse because at least part of the sun is being covered by the moon and the sun’s actual light becomes visible from behind the moon. It is not the moon’s surface shining! This is an example of what it looks like:

What you are claiming should happen even at non-eclipse new moons can only happen if the moon tracks across the sun with respect to the earth, not above or below it. And again it is not the moon’s surface shining but sunlight appearing from behind the moon.

At a non-eclipse new moon the sun is not behind the moon but either above or below it. And so the moon will not have any sunlight appearing around its edge except the tiny sliver visible from earth on which the sun does actually shine and then it will be visible only with specialised equipment.

Here is a link to a website displaying a photo taken at the very minute of a (non-eclipse) new moon. I’m not going to post the photo here as the site requires prior permission if it’s to be used for anything other than strictly private purposes but the photo is the first one on the webpage.

Thierry Legault - World record : the youngest New Moon - July 8 2013

The site warns ‘Caution ! The very thin crescent of the New Moon cannot be observed visually whatever the instrument (naked eye, binoculars, telescope...). Moreover, pointing a celestial object that close to the Sun is dangerous for the observer and his equipment if it is not performed under the control of an experienced astronomer and with the proper equipment.’

The equipment used was… ‘Takahashi FSQ-106ED with focal reducer (D=106mm, F=400mm) on Losmandy Titan German equatorial mount, IDS 3370 monochrome camera (CMOSIS 2048x2048 sensor), low-pass infrared filter 850nm. Processing: combination of 4000 calibrated (flat-field) images, gradient removal by wavelets, contrast/brightness, colorization. The Moon has been pointed with the help of the GOTO system of the mount and tracked at the precise lunar speed calculated for the instant of shooting.’

The point here is that visually the sun was located at about 5° directly above the moon in the sky at the time of the photo and so the only visible part of the moon was a tiny sliver at its top and then only with specialised equipment. There is no reason whatsoever that, from earth, any other part of the moon should have been seen to be lit by the sun’s light if the moon is a sphere lit by the sun at the new moon phase, simply because the sun’s light was not shining anywhere else on the moon’s surface that was visible from earth.

But if the moon is self-luminous, all of its surface facing the earth should have been lit and visible with this same equipment. It wasn’t.

Again I ask please explain how a self-luminous moon exhibits phases. And again, what Bible verses define the moon as self-luminous?

 

[SPF]

LOL.... Ya... let's not believe what many people are doing.... because.. nobody has put up the money to test it...

You actually think that someone is going to fund a study to see if moonlight is cold? Seriously?


Even if they did.. there is no way it would be published.... How do you go about dealing with that Pandora's box of "what the heck do we say"?

Nope... it's better to just get some dude with letters behind his name, to tell everyone that it cannot be true....

A paper? LOL

I'm confused, why would the fact that the moon puts of "cold light" be controversial? Either it does or it doesn't. But let's just for the sake of discussion assume that this truth about the moon putting off cold light is super damaging to what NASA is trying to tell us and it must be kept a secret.

What confuses me is that you said this with regards to people trying to disprove the cold light theory from the moon:

Well, now, as is usually the case.. there are "armchair" scientists and others who are trying to explain all kinds of reasons for this simple observation...

It is precisely because you said that there were only "armchair scientists" that are trying to disprove this theory. The phrase you chose was clearly meant to discredit and demean and allow you to fallaciously ignore what any "armchair scientist" says because they aren't a real scientist?

Thus, if it is only real scientists that you rely on, wouldn't it stand to reason that a real scientist would have delivered the news about the cold light moon? I think though that it appears that in reality, the only people that have claimed the moon light is cold are indeed these armchair scientists.

But light is not seen, why because the sun does not light the moon and the moon is not a sphere.

Again no half of the moon is being lit by the sun, it does not matter if you are seeing only a quarter of a lit moon there is still a full moon there giving off light on a science sphere moon. So a quarter moon seen from the earth if the moon is a sphere lit by the sun it should look like this photo. But it is never seen this way.
View attachment 283222
Only like this.
View attachment 283223

d taylor, do you not understand why the lighting in the two pictures is different? You do realize that in one picture the sun is directly behind the moon, and in the other picture the sun is in a different location entirely. In what universe would you expect that the pictures ought to look identical when the sun is in entirely different locations in the two pictures?

And again - can you provide ANY explanation as to how the moon produces its own light?

 

[Phil G]

Here's a question...

The moon is at the "half moon phase". When the sun went down the illuminated portion of the moon was from the side the sun was on.. In other words, the illuminated side of the half moon faced west.

Later on, the moon, still in it's "half moon" phase still had the illuminated side facing west.

However, the sun, now much later, was moving down and underneath me. All the while the moon's illuminated side.. faced west..


If the sun is reflecting off of the moons surface.. as the night goes on and the sun moves down underneath me and, eventually, coming up in the east... Why does the illuminated part of the moon not follow the movement of the sun...

This would mean, eventually, when the sun is straight down below me.. the moon should be full again..

Then, continuing this scenario.. the moon should be a 3/4 moon with the illuminated side facing eastward..

Yet.. The moon moves across the sky.. in the half moon phase and it stays fixed.. the same half.. facing the same way... All the while the sun goes down around and underneath me.

Oh hello again, that didn't take long! The answer to your question is obvious - The sun hasn't moved much with respect to the moon so the same portion of the moon remains lit, and is so all over the world. It's the earth rotating, not the sun moving!

Looks like you've got the FE bug alright!

 

[SPF]

Oh, and I'm really confused - what shape is the moon supposed to actually be? I mean, it certainly looks like a sphere, but it's not?

 

[Phil G]

Oh, and I'm really confused - what shape is the moon supposed to actually be? I mean, it certainly looks like a sphere, but it's not?

Depends on which FE believer you speak to!

 

[JacksBratt]

I'm confused, why would the fact that the moon puts of "cold light" be controversial? Either it does or it doesn't. But let's just for the sake of discussion assume that this truth about the moon putting off cold light is super damaging to what NASA is trying to tell us and it must be kept a secret.

What confuses me is that you said this with regards to people trying to disprove the cold light theory from the moon:It is precisely because you said that there were only "armchair scientists" that are trying to disprove this theory. The phrase you chose was clearly meant to discredit and demean and allow you to fallaciously ignore what any "armchair scientist" says because they aren't a real scientist?

Thus, if it is only real scientists that you rely on, wouldn't it stand to reason that a real scientist would have delivered the news about the cold light moon? I think though that it appears that in reality, the only people that have claimed the moon light is cold are indeed these armchair scientists.



d taylor, do you not understand why the lighting in the two pictures is different? You do realize that in one picture the sun is directly behind the moon, and in the other picture the sun is in a different location entirely. In what universe would you expect that the pictures ought to look identical when the sun is in entirely different locations in the two pictures?

And again - can you provide ANY explanation as to how the moon produces its own light?

No, I cannot explain any way that the moon would give it's own light. However, the fact that it's cooler and the moon phases and eclipses do strange things and don't line up with what NASA says.. is reason for further investigation.. which, I believe, will never happen as the more you know.. the more you realize that you don't know... and.. this information would just raise more questions.

NASA or Never A Straight Answer.. has never been good with phenomenon that they cannot "splain" away.

 

[JacksBratt]

Oh hello again, that didn't take long! The answer to your question is obvious - The sun hasn't moved much with respect to the moon so the same portion of the moon remains lit, and is so all over the world. It's the earth rotating, not the sun moving!

Looks like you've got the FE bug alright!

There you go again... Like it's some sort of "one up" you have on someone for accusing them of believing something that they have said, many times that they don't believe...

I'll admit.. the FE idea is interesting.. However, I have not seen enough evidence to proof it as factual.. I have seen problems with it... and problems with the globe too.

Do you have a problem with those that don't believe in either model.. We MUST be black or white.. We MUST believe one or the other?

Even though it has no effect on my daily life, my beliefs, the decisions in my life? But.. YOU.. have to goad me due to your inability to accept that it's not the way you think... and there are those of us who are able to question things that we have been taught for decades..

I don't know why you care so much.. Like it's offensive to you or something.

So.... look.. people believe the earth is flat... Some are very well versed in the science of this universe.. Maybe you could go and debate them. Their numbers are growing..

I can also have questions about the moon being it's own light source and question things I see in my own backyard..

If it stresses you to the point that you have to accuse people.. maybe you should just avoid the topic.

As for your "the earth is rotating but not the sun moving.. The moon is orbiting too.

Somehow..

The moon starts in the east.. with a west facing illuminated side from the sun in the west.

Then.. the moon is in the west still with a west facing illuminated side.. but the sun... is at my feet and soon to be rising in the east.

I find that curious..

 

[Phil G]

There you go again... Like it's some sort of "one up" you have on someone for accusing them of believing something that they have said, many times that they don't believe...

I'll admit.. the FE idea is interesting.. However, I have not seen enough evidence to proof it as factual.. I have seen problems with it... and problems with the globe too.

Do you have a problem with those that don't believe in either model.. We MUST be black or white.. We MUST believe one or the other?

Even though it has no effect on my daily life, my beliefs, the decisions in my life? But.. YOU.. have to goad me due to your inability to accept that it's not the way you think... and there are those of us who are able to question things that we have been taught for decades..

I don't know why you care so much.. Like it's offensive to you or something.

So.... look.. people believe the earth is flat... Some are very well versed in the science of this universe.. Maybe you could go and debate them. Their numbers are growing..

I can also have questions about the moon being it's own light source and question things I see in my own backyard..

If it stresses you to the point that you have to accuse people.. maybe you should just avoid the topic.

As for your "the earth is rotating but not the sun moving.. The moon is orbiting too.

Somehow..

The moon starts in the east.. with a west facing illuminated side from the sun in the west.

Then.. the moon is in the west still with a west facing illuminated side.. but the sun... is at my feet and soon to be rising in the east.

I find that curious..

What I find curious is that you never seem to post anything challenging to the flat earth position. For someone who is not a flat earth believer, you seem to take that position all the time. And to me if it (metaphorically of course) looks like a duck... you know the rest.

 

[Phil G]

As for your "the earth is rotating but not the sun moving.. The moon is orbiting too.

Somehow..

The moon starts in the east.. with a west facing illuminated side from the sun in the west.

Then.. the moon is in the west still with a west facing illuminated side.. but the sun... is at my feet and soon to be rising in the east.

I find that curious..

The moon takes nearly 30 days to orbit. The earth takes nearly 24 hours to rotate. That's the difference.

 

[SPF]

No, I cannot explain any way that the moon would give it's own light. However, the fact that it's cooler and the moon phases and eclipses do strange things and don't line up with what NASA says.. is reason for further investigation.. which, I believe, will never happen as the more you know.. the more you realize that you don't know... and.. this information would just raise more questions.

NASA or Never A Straight Answer.. has never been good with phenomenon that they cannot "splain" away.

This is a long read, but I suspect that as a person seeking the truth this will be appealing to you.

The fact of the matter is that the moon does not put off some sort of cooler light.

Testing a Flat-Earth Prediction: Is the Moon’s Light Cooling?

 

[JacksBratt]

What I find curious is that you never seem to post anything challenging to the flat earth position. For someone who is not a flat earth believer, you seem to take that position all the time. And to me if it (metaphorically of course) looks like a duck... you know the rest.

The FE needs no help being challenged. Guess I'm just not red faced angry enough like most are when it comes to people who are sold solid on the FE view...
Nor am I spitting mad when FE earth questions are raised against the globe.

Guess.. because there are lots of people out there, ready to insult, ridicule and bash anyone that believes different than the masses.

 

[JacksBratt]

The moon takes nearly 30 days to orbit. The earth takes nearly 24 hours to rotate. That's the difference.

Still doesn't explain why the moon is to my west.... the sun is below me and the illuminated side is still the westward side of the moon.

 

[JacksBratt]

This is a long read, but I suspect that as a person seeking the truth this will be appealing to you.

The fact of the matter is that the moon does not put off some sort of cooler light.

Testing a Flat-Earth Prediction: Is the Moon’s Light Cooling?

Thanks I'll check it out later.

 

[Phil G]

The FE needs no help being challenged. Guess I'm just not red faced angry enough like most are when it comes to people who are sold solid on the FE view...
Nor am I spitting mad when FE earth questions are raised against the globe.

Guess.. because there are lots of people out there, ready to insult, ridicule and bash anyone that believes different than the masses.

Yes things can get heated on this topic. The video you posted before also ridiculed a spherical earth position and to be honest, I could only watch 12 minutes of it because of that.

 

[Phil G]

Still doesn't explain why the moon is to my west.... the sun is below me and the illuminated side is still the westward side of the moon.

It makes sense when you think about. The same side still faces the sun as it has done through the night. The same side still faces the earth as it has done through the night. The earth rotates quickly. There is no reason why the moon phase should change as visible from earth in a matter of hours.

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes things can get heated on this topic. The video you posted before also ridiculed a spherical earth position and to be honest, I could only watch 12 minutes of it because of that.

Yep, I cannot condone all of what people say in a video.. some I never post due to vulgar language.. even though they may state a point that is valid.. in any case.. there will be a lot of things said and there is no way I agree with all of it.

Usually I will give a time stamp location where my point is being reinforced.

 

[JacksBratt]

It makes sense when you think about. The same side still faces the sun as it has done through the night. The same side still faces the earth as it has done through the night. The earth rotates quickly. There is no reason why the moon phase should change as visible from earth in a matter of hours.

Well, standing here on the ground.. It certainly doesn't line up... visually.