COVID-19. I disagree with my pastors.

[rturner76]

I think we need to have healthy immune systems in order to fight disease. Unfortunately, many doctors are more concerned with money than with people's health. It's not hard to find doctors who talk about keeping the immune system healthy, even specifically in regard to covid. But, you're not going to find them by watching the news.

It is also a quick fix to throw antibiotics at people than pressure them to change some habits in order to boot that immunity. Things like sugar and processed foods are hard on the body and most people prefer not to eat a healthy diet, drink tea, exercise, and get vitamins in themselves. Mu brother in law has a Chinese medicine clinic and their whole philosophy of medical care is to get your immune system (and chi) as strong as possible BEFORE you get sick. In the USA we see a doctor AFTER we get sick.

 

[Angeltp]

My city allows churches to assemble outdoors as long as they comply with the mask and social distancing requirements.

My church has signs, free masks and free hand sanitizer to comply with the city regulations. We assemble but the younger church members refuse to wear a mask citing various opinions based on the bible (God will protect me), medical opinions on covid (just the flu), etc. News crews show up to video tape the event. The next day the church is contacted by city officials to discuss our compliance issues.

I think the younger Christians are simply not compassionate. They haven't taken Love Your Neighbor to heart. I wish I saw more of a movement to contribute to food banks and medical charities and pray for our neighbors.

My pastors say we have the right to assemble. They focus more on government intervention instead of compliance and compassion for others.

I know the Holy Spirit directs each individual in their own way. I am wondering if I should say something to my pastors OR simply be accepting of their journey. Any ideas?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Genius logic, I'm impressed by your intelligence! Good plan. Everybody stop wearing masks and donate the money you save to Africans. That should fix things. Do you think you are immune to this virus? If you don't leave home no problem but don't spread your disease to my 80-year-old mother. Aren't you a Christian? Try caring about other people. It's one of those things us Christians do (I guess, not so sure now)

So in other words if I wore a crappy mask that covered my face but was in reality only 1% effective against the virus then I'm caring and loving people...... yeah..... right.

 

[Angeltp]

Hi! I am facing the same issue in my church. We worship in a close setting and majority of worshippers do not wear masks when they come to church, my pastor wears his own mask on his jaw. His claim is that he can’t contract the virus because he has faith in God.I have made my intent known to him that he is not handling the situation right.I think you should talk to your pastor

 

[Sophrosyne]

Speaking of saving lives, we build our immune systems by exposure to germs and naturally fighting illness. Those who have been super-sanitizing themselves and their children, using antibiotics unnecessarily and introducing other poisons into their bodies are placing a great risk to their health by degrading their immune systems. When the masks and gloves come off, those people will not have the same resistance as those of us who care for our bodies and live normal lives. I hope the fallout from that situation doesn't pose a REAL health emergency.

I recall being told about children who were always getting sick from anything and it was because their mom sanitized everything and kept her kids away from other sick kids. The doctor told her to take her kids outside and make them eat dirt and in time they built up strong immune systems and had no more issues.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Hi! I am facing the same issue in my church. We worship in a close setting and majority of worshippers do not wear masks when they come to church, my pastor wears his own mask on his jaw. His claim is that he can’t contract the virus because he has faith in God.I have made my intent known to him that he is not handling the situation right.I think you should talk to your pastor

If people aren't distancing properly and you are afraid of being infected I would just avoid going to church as masks without distancing is a bad bet to "be safe".

 

[Cis.jd]

The 44% is with masks that are hard to get as the health care industry has gobbled them all up. The effectiveness of readily available masks is unknown and could be as low as 5% even. I strongly recommend social distancing over any idea that the other persons crappy mask is going to "save" you from his possible infection.
If a mask is only 5-10% effective then I find them worthless and a temptation to feel safe wearing one and not maintain a safer distance than normal. There is talk that the virus may be expelled by some in aerosol form (not droplets) such that the mask "holes" is larger than the virus particles are basically greatly reducing its "stopping power and even allowing particles that contact and stay on a mask to be sucked in by the wearer logically.

You can make your own with just a bandanna.
It's not about "how effective" it is because no one believes it grants full immunity. Masks are just the best and simplest thing we can do outside.
Social distancing is obviously the best method however people do need to go out for errands or to visit someone so just wear a mask during these moments.

 

[Hazelelponi]

So just sneeze and cough on people? Polite people cough or sneeze into a handkerchief.

Actually, it's more polite to cough or sneeze into the crook of your arm (elbow area) because of the whole, can't wash hands immediately thing..

 

[Hazelelponi]

I recall being told about children who were always getting sick from anything and it was because their mom sanitized everything and kept her kids away from other sick kids. The doctor told her to take her kids outside and make them eat dirt and in time they built up strong immune systems and had no more issues.

It's still going on, they believe the rise in serious food allergies (nuts etc) and asthma in children is due to non-exposure with the very young (prior to age 1-1/2 or 2)

There's a lot to be said for exposure to germs, allergens and foods at young ages...

I do think we still have yet to determine whether exposure to COVID will produce long term immunity though. There's a good chance it will help, but we really don't know yet. There are a few cases so far of reinfection, but those cases are rare enough to wonder if the individual had a false negative while still ill or some other potential reason(s)..

I do believe whether or not we agree on effectiveness of mask wearing, with the higher level of elderly in our churches we should wear masks, if only to protect the mental health of others....

When it comes to our church family remember, we should not cause our weaker brothers and sisters to fall into what may be for them, sin... pressuring them in areas they feel uncomfortable isn't something we should do. (1 Corinthians 8:6-13 while about eating foods, can be extrapolated to other areas of our lives and fellowship as well)

I believe when it comes to worship, we should watch out for them, as we may bear a greater responsibility here for their spiritual well being...

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

And yet there is zero evidence that masks actually prevent the transmission of disease, particularly outside sterile environments. I have a dozen studies, all pre-politicized covid, that say cloth masks are useless and do nothing to stop the transmission of viruses. So I would submit there is no wisdom in wearing a mask.

I'm sorry but that is a pretty poor excuse and that is one that lacks wisdom to my thinking.

If masks can prevent water droplets from spreading into the air around you, then clearly it will have an impact on COVID which relies on attaching itself to such things.

If water droplets are more likely to be produced by shouting and singing, then preaching and worship as Christians know it, should be conducted with great care.

If COVID can survive for over a day indoors, then Christians congregating indoors is a dangerous thing.

From this it is quite reasonable to take that the stance that indoor Christian services are at an increased risk of spreading the disease.

And since my Pastor is a scientist currently working on developing a vaccine, and he encourages the use of masks as well as limited numbers in the church, then I think I'll go along with that.

 

[Dave L]

Do you truly care for the dead? To be brutally honest I'm not God I cannot care about 160,000 people in this country dying nor can I care about the millions dying in Africa over the years from disease and starvation that if we had not shut down the country that money could have saved perhaps 10 million peoples lives across the planet. If you put the money you spend on masks could you save the life of a half dozen starving children with it? I don't know. The thing is people have this idea that they are saving lives by wearing a mask when most likely they are just delaying deaths of people that will sooner or later get infected and maybe die anyway because we cannot live in isolation forever.

What if you kill someone by breathing on them which could have been prevented by "common sense" measures lake wearing a substantial mask?

 

[Dave L]

You always respond with a question? Did you even read my post? What you are saying to people are media talking points without fact. I gave you facts, perhaps do the same?

Jesus does this all the time. Also, it keeps you from getting banned by being blunter.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Jesus does this all the time. Also, it keeps you from getting banned by being blunter.

Lol.... good idea. I have a tendency to being blunt, so your idea here might be a good thing!

 

[Markie Boy]

Exactly. I have all the conservative things and yet a name on an ego trip and a monster because I wear and advocate mask here

I am in the same boat - very conservative, morally and politically. But realize mask wearing helps - to what degree people argue, but it does help. And for this I get labeled a liberal.

I have seen some Trad Catholic leaders really push back on the mask thing - totally uncharitable - and just one more reason I'm no longer Catholic. They have made politics their religion, as they preach politics way more than salvation.

 

[rturner76]

So in other words if I wore a crappy mask that covered my face but was in reality only 1% effective against the virus then I'm caring and loving people...... yeah..... right.

You have no idea what "percentage" of effect your mask has unless it states on the box. Even a bandana is better than nothing. You don't seem to understand that you caching it is only half of what it's for. It's also so you don't spread it. Ask any biologist if a blast of virus-laden air bein shot out of your face 100 miles an hour then swirling around the room is safer than covering that sneeze with pretty much anything to catch the spray. Oh, but why should we listen to our leading and local doctors, experts, biologists, and the government? I mean we have you and your personal opinion based on your best guess which is much more accurate information. I dunno, maybe it would be a better choicer to believe the people who have PhDs in biology or a medical degree than a nobody on the internet.

 

[rturner76]

I am in the same boat - very conservative, morally and politically. But realize mask wearing helps - to what degree people argue, but it does help. And for this I get labeled a liberal.

I have seen some Trad Catholic leaders really push back on the mask thing - totally uncharitable - and just one more reason I'm no longer Catholic. They have made politics their religion, as they preach politics way more than salvation.

My parish has been completely shut down until a couple of weeks ago and even now you must call ahead and tell them you are attending so they can limit the number of people there providige space for distancing and masks are mandatory. So I don't know what Catholics you are referring to but there is at least one parish that respects the law and the virus. It may not be a good idea to make such sweeping generalizations about the Church as a whole.

However, if you are aware of a publication put out by that magisterium that does advice against compliance, I would be very interested to read it because that attitude would not be kosher to me. I would want to discuss it with my Priest because that is not keeping the church body safe to go against the government on this issue..

 

[Arc F1]

Did the flu kill over 150,000 people in America last year? What about the common cold? Answer: No. COVID19 is far more deadly.

So a little deadly is OK? What is the cut off point? Ibuprofen kills people yet everyone still takes it. Cars kill people yet we still let love ones risk their lives everyday. What I'm trying to figure out is why now all of a sudden people care. My guess is the media attention has people scared. If the news constantly reported on flu deaths every single day people would probably react the same way.

 

[topher694]

If you are not wearing a mask in a public place you need to be called out. You're a Christian right? Act like one and show at least half a care for other human beings. You might not have symptoms. You might never get symptoms, you could still have the virus and smear it all over everywhere you go. I don't care if your mother dies a horrible wretched death. By not complying that is what you are telling the world.

Wow, a Christian complaining about having compassion. That's a new one. There is no "other way" to see this. Either wear a mask or risk other people's lives. 1+1=2. Any questions? It's easy math. It's not at all selfish for me to want my mom to keep living. It IS selfish to risk other's lives because you don like wearing a mask or even a bandana is better than nothing and then feeling righteous for spreading disease everywhere is something I have never heard of. People are not self righteous for asking others not to risk the health of their parents. There is literally no good reason not to. People just don't like being told what to do like 5 year olds. Real men and real women do what's requires of them. Get over your disdain for society and participate. You don't look smarter, if fact it's the opposite.

It's like people don't have the basic understanding of cause and effect. I've known about cause/effect since I was 2

And thank you for proving my point and twisting my words. Why don't you actually go back and read everything before making uninformed comments, you know that way 1 + 1 might actually = 2.

I am a pastor. And unlike you. I choose to have compassion for EVERYONE, not just whomever it is fashionable at the moment, AND treat everyone with respect, which apparently you missed.

It's attitudes like yours that are the problem.

 

[Redwingfan9]

I'm sorry but that is a pretty poor excuse and that is one that lacks wisdom to my thinking.

If masks can prevent water droplets from spreading into the air around you, then clearly it will have an impact on COVID which relies on attaching itself to such things.

If water droplets are more likely to be produced by shouting and singing, then preaching and worship as Christians know it, should be conducted with great care.

If COVID can survive for over a day indoors, then Christians congregating indoors is a dangerous thing.

From this it is quite reasonable to take that the stance that indoor Christian services are at an increased risk of spreading the disease.

And since my Pastor is a scientist currently working on developing a vaccine, and he encourages the use of masks as well as limited numbers in the church, then I think I'll go along with that.

Do what you want but don't expect other Christians to follow suit.

 

[Archivist]

So a little deadly is OK? What is the cut off point? Ibuprofen kills people yet everyone still takes it. Cars kill people yet we still let love ones risk their lives everyday. What I'm trying to figure out is why now all of a sudden people care. My guess is the media attention has people scared. If the news constantly reported on flu deaths every single day people would probably react the same way.

Perhaps you have not been following the news. We are dealing with a worldwide pandemic that has killed over 155,000 in this nation alone. It is highly contagious. CDC doctors have said that we could lower the number of deaths significantly if everyone would wear a mask and practice social distancing.

Cars kill people? Yes, they do. That's why we require that people wear seat belts and why cars have airbags. That's why safety features like automatic emergency braking, lane keep assist, advanced cameras, and rear-seat reminder systems are in newer cars.