The Lake Of Fire

[Der Alte]

You said in post #670........
"I have shown you TONS of scriptures yet you continue to claim there are "NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES to support such an idea." This strikes me as intellectually dishonest."

Steve, what is intellectually dishonest is what you just posted when you said..........
"And the Bible indicates that people did in fact have what you would call "a second chance" after death when Christ descended into the realm of the dead between his death and resurrection."

Now you did not post the Scriptures you mentioned. Is that because you do not know where your comment came from???? I will do it for you......

1 Peter 3:18-20 ....
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

NOW THE.......WHERE IN THOSE SCRIPTURES ARE THE WORDS YOU SAID WERE THERE........
"And the Bible indicates that people did in fact have what you would call "a second chance" after death when Christ descended into the realm of the dead between his death and resurrection."

WHERE ARE THEY STEVE???? Christ suffered, He paid the price for our sin, He died, He rose again, He preached to the lost in Torments in Sheol, who were disobedient and Noah was faithful and his family was saved.

WHERE ARE THE WORDS........
"And the Bible indicates that people did in fact have what you would call "a second chance" after death?

Now THAT my friend is intellectual dishonesty as all can see that THERE IS NOT ONE WORD THAT SUGGESTS A SECOND CHANCE AFTER DEAT!!!!

Again I say with all honest and conviction that, there is no where in the Bible that says the people in the Lake of Fire who do what you just said are then REMOVED FROM THE LAKE OF FIRE!!!!

May I add some support to your post. As you have noted the UR-ites claim that there is a second chance in the grave/hell/lake of fire and that their claim is supposedly supported by 1 Pet 3:18-20.

1 Peter 3:18-20 ....
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."
NOW THE.......WHERE IN THOSE SCRIPTURES ARE THE WORDS YOU SAID WERE THERE........
"And the Bible indicates that people did in fact have what you would call "a second chance" after death when Christ descended into the realm of the dead between his death and resurrection."​

If Jesus' mission in the grave/hell/lake of fire was to save all the unrighteous then Jesus' mission was a failure only a few, eight souls, Noah and his family, were saved, everyone else was destroyed.

 

[FineLinen]

What does that comment have to do with the wicked lost in the Lake of Fire being saved and removed from the LOF????????

All wicked, all potential righteous who are accounted righteous, must live with the Father of glory in His fiery Presence. There are roads within Him that lead to His perfect consummation.

The identical "many made sinners" = the "many made righteous."

Hell exists. Not as a place, like Dante's lurid and sadistic descriptions, but as the fire of God's love which burns away all that is not like Him. It exists to purify, as the refiner's fire spoken of in scripture. It exists to bring all things back to Himself, no matter how long it will take. For the most evil of people (you know, the usual suspects, Hitler, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, King Leopold of Belgium) it may well take the ages of ages spoken of in the Bible. For others, the purification may be very short, like the Holy Monks of Mt. Athos.

Isn't this more just of God than creating souls you know will fall into sin with no plan of redeeming them and being willing to see them, as sentient beings, suffer anguish forever? Isn't this more in line with His love?

 

[FineLinen]

Isn't it wonderful to have a tag team partner????

Acquaint yourself with sarkikos & sarkinos.

 

[Major1]

Acquaint yourself with sarkikos & sarkinos.

Wouldn't that apply to everyone????

Aren't we all fleshly??

 

[Major1]

All wicked, all potential righteous who are accounted righteous, must live with the Father of glory in His fiery Presence. There are roads within Him that lead to His perfect consummation.

The identical "many made sinners" = the "many made righteous."

All men were made sinners in Adam's disobedience.

ALL men who come to Christ and accept His work on the cross are made righteous IN Christ.

1 Corth. 15:22.........
"For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

Romans 5:19......
"For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous."

However.......none of that applies to your thesis of Universal salvation with the wicked lost in the Lake of Fire being able to be saved and removed from the LOF.

From Made Righteous in Christ - Lesson 10 in God's Great Salvation

How does God make us Righteous in His sight?

God has done three wonderful things to make us perfectly righteous in His sight:
(1) He has ended our old life in Adam.
(2) He has given us a new life in Christ.
(3) He has given us Faith so that we can believe and be saved.
(4) He has given Christ to us as our righteousness.

To put it simply, God gets rid of all that we are and gives us Christ as our righteousness. Let us see how God does this.

God has ended our old life in Adam.
Through the blood of Christ, God has removed our sins from us forever.
Through FAITH He has cleared us of all charges against us. He has justified us freely by His grace.

 

[FineLinen]

Wouldn't that apply to everyone????

Aren't we all fleshly??

The purpose of God is to bring us by stages of His intervention in our twisted tri-partate being from sarkikos & sarkinos to the realm of spiritual maturity.

 

[Major1]

May I add some support to your post. As you have noted the UR-ites claim that there is a second chance in the grave/hell/lake of fire and that their claim is supposedly supported by 1 Pet 3:18-20.

1 Peter 3:18-20 ....
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."
NOW THE.......WHERE IN THOSE SCRIPTURES ARE THE WORDS YOU SAID WERE THERE........
"And the Bible indicates that people did in fact have what you would call "a second chance" after death when Christ descended into the realm of the dead between his death and resurrection."​

If Jesus' mission in the grave/hell/lake of fire was to save all the unrighteous then Jesus' mission was a failure only a few, eight souls, Noah and his family, were saved, everyone else was destroyed.

You can add to anything I post brother!!!!!

I welcome your support and I agree with your additions.

 

[Major1]

The purpose of God is to bring us by stages of His intervention in our twisted tri-partate being from sarkikos & sarkinos to the realm of spiritual maturity.

When we as sinners are truly saved, our SPIRITUAL souls are are as saved at the moment of accepting Christ as they will be saved after 100 years of walking with Him.

Salvation is an event, not a process. The Bible says in Ephesians 1:13-14 that It happened in the first moment of belief.

Then "Sanctification" is the life long work of the Holy Spirit counseling us to adjust our behavior to be conformed to the image and likeness of Jesus, BUT sanctification is not salvation but the results of being saved.

 

[Major1]

All wicked, all potential righteous who are accounted righteous, must live with the Father of glory in His fiery Presence. There are roads within Him that lead to His perfect consummation.

The identical "many made sinners" = the "many made righteous."

Again, as usual..........would you please post the Bible Scriptures that validate what you just said......."must live with the Father of glory in His fiery Presence."

I am fairly acquainted with the Bible, however I can not seem to remember that phrase!

So help us all out....OK?

 

[FineLinen]

When we as sinners are truly saved, our SPIRITUAL souls are are as saved at the moment of accepting Christ as they will be saved after 100 years of walking with Him.

Salvation is an event, not a process. The Bible says in Ephesians 1:13-14 that It happened in the first moment of belief.

Salvation in Scripture is in three tenses of past, present & future.

Our soul life is not our spirit life. The active word of the Spirit of the Lord separates the soul from spirit. It is alive and active encompassing anakrino and oxus, as sharp as a surgeons scalpal and a sharp sword.

 

[Major1]

Salvation in Scripture is in three tenses of past, present & future.

Our soul life is not our spirit life. The active word of the Spirit of the Lord separates the soul from spirit. It is alive and active encompassing anakrino and oxus, as sharp as a surgeons scalpal and a sharp sword.

I can understand how you would be confused on salvation. Allow me to help your understanding.

Actual salvation takes place at the very moment we accept Christ. When we accept Christ as Saviour we are at that very moment saved. We will not be MORE saved tomarrow than we are today.

1.
Salvation past is actually the act of accepting Christ & is called justification.

2.
Salvation "present" is called sanctification which is growing in knowledge and faith.

3.
Salvation future is actually called glorification. That happens at death when our spirit is actually presented to God in heaven. We must be "Glorified" in order to stand before a Perfect God in a Perfect heaven.

Acts 2:38..........
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

Notice this verse is talking about those who are actually getting saved. When you “repent” and you are getting “remission” for your sins – you are in fact RIGHT THEN AND THERE SAVED.

You cannot truly repent and receive full forgiveness and remission for your sins unless you are first willing to accept Jesus as your personal Savior.

Now that I have helped you...please help me by answering what I asked you ...

Again, as usual..........would you please post the Bible Scriptures that validate what you just said......."must live with the Father of glory in His fiery Presence."

 

[Saint Steven]

Now you know very well that YOU have not done anything close to that and THAT to me is what intellectual dishonesty is !!!!

Sorry to have to break this to you but... No one is required to play by your twisted rules.
Your loaded question is only that. (a loaded question)

 

[Saint Steven]

And to answer your question........YES, if God spoke to anyone verbally today, the next question SHOULD be what book, what chapter and what verse.

If that is not the case then the words thought to be God's are simply your imagination.

Sorry to hear that you and God are not on speaking terms.

 

[Saint Steven]

NOW THE.......WHERE IN THOSE SCRIPTURES ARE THE WORDS YOU SAID WERE THERE........
"And the Bible indicates that people did in fact have what you would call "a second chance" after death when Christ descended into the realm of the dead between his death and resurrection."

WHERE ARE THEY STEVE????

Ephesians 4:7-10
But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

 

[FineLinen]

What does that comment have to do with the wicked lost in the Lake of Fire being saved and removed from the LOF????????

The wicked are NOT lost in the Lake of theion and theioo. The Lake of all lakes is not only for the wicked with all the various degrees of rebellion and sin. The Lake of Theos is for those who have not died in their earthly life, but be not troubled.

"A believer is someone who dies before he dies. An unbeliever needs to die after he dies."

 

[FineLinen]

Would you please post the Bible Scriptures that validate what you just said......."must live with the Father of glory in His fiery Presence."

The essence of God is FIRE (LIGHT LOVE SPIRIT). These are not characteristics of Abba, they are His essential element: His essence.

Our God IS consuming Fire.

"So don’t turn a deaf ear to these gracious words. If those who ignored earthly warnings didn’t get away with it, what will happen to us if we turn our backs on heavenly warnings? His voice that time shook the earth to its foundations; this time—he’s told us this quite plainly—he’ll also rock the heavens:

“One last shaking, from top to bottom, stem to stern.”

The phrase “one last shaking” means a thorough housecleaning, getting rid of all the historical and religious junk so that the unshakable essentials stand clear and uncluttered. Do you see what we’ve got? An unshakable kingdom! And do you see how thankful we must be? Not only thankful, but brimming with worship, deeply reverent before God.

For God is not an indifferent bystander. He’s actively cleaning house, torching all that needs to burn, and he won’t quit until it’s all cleansed. God himself is Fire! -MSG-

 

[Der Alte]

...

The wicked are NOT lost in the Lake of theion and theioo. The Lake of all lakes is not only for the wicked with all the various degrees of rebellion and sin. The Lake of Theos is for those who have not died in their earthly life, but be not troubled.
"A believer is someone who dies before he dies. An unbeliever needs to die after he dies."

What would be really helpful is scripture to support this. Just saying.

 

[Major1]

The essence of God is FIRE (LIGHT LOVE SPIRIT). These are not characteristics of Abba, they are His essential element: His essence.

Our God IS consuming Fire.

"So don’t turn a deaf ear to these gracious words. If those who ignored earthly warnings didn’t get away with it, what will happen to us if we turn our backs on heavenly warnings? His voice that time shook the earth to its foundations; this time—he’s told us this quite plainly—he’ll also rock the heavens:

“One last shaking, from top to bottom, stem to stern.”

The phrase “one last shaking” means a thorough housecleaning, getting rid of all the historical and religious junk so that the unshakable essentials stand clear and uncluttered. Do you see what we’ve got? An unshakable kingdom! And do you see how thankful we must be? Not only thankful, but brimming with worship, deeply reverent before God.

For God is not an indifferent bystander. He’s actively cleaning house, torching all that needs to burn, and he won’t quit until it’s all cleansed. God himself is Fire! -MSG-

Again.....I do not agree with your opinion. To say that the "Essence of God of Fire",
is to say that His NATURE is fire.

Now to be clear, when speaking of God's 'nature', I am referring to His characteristics, His attributes, His qualities. That is the NATURE to which makes up His essence.

I do agree and the Scriptures indeed tell us that God deals in to elements.....
1. Blood.
2. FIRE.

However I can not find in the Scriptures anything that says God's nature is fire.
That is completely YOUR PERSONAL OPINION.

Christianity claims that the God of all things is unique in that He alone has the following divine characteristics (in no particular order):

1. IMMORTAL.
2. OMNISCIENCE He knows all things.
3. OMNIPOTENCE He is all powerful.
4. OMNIPRESENCE He is everywhere at the same time.
5. SELF-EXISTENT God is the only thing that had no beginning,
6. HOLINESS Holy means pure, undefiled.
7. TRIUNE NATURE The one God is a single "trinity" consisting of three distinct "persons".
8. The Nature of God
   
9. BUT I CAN NOT FIND ANYWHERE IN THE SCRIPTURES THAT GOD'S NATURE IS FIRE.

 

[Major1]

The wicked are NOT lost in the Lake of theion and theioo. The Lake of all lakes is not only for the wicked with all the various degrees of rebellion and sin. The Lake of Theos is for those who have not died in their earthly life, but be not troubled.

"A believer is someone who dies before he dies. An unbeliever needs to die after he dies."

The problem linnen is that YOU NEVER post any scriptures that support your opinions.

Because of that fact hen your opinions have to be ignored as they are only opinions.

 

[Major1]

The wicked are NOT lost in the Lake of theion and theioo. The Lake of all lakes is not only for the wicked with all the various degrees of rebellion and sin. The Lake of Theos is for those who have not died in their earthly life, but be not troubled.

"A believer is someone who dies before he dies. An unbeliever needs to die after he dies."

You mean to tell us all that you are basing your whole theology of the Lost in the Lake of fire on two words----"Theion and Theioo" which in the Greek language means......
"brimston and was THOUGHT to have divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having power to purify, and to ward off disease".

Are you kidding me?????