The Ghastly Eternal Torment Dogma

[GenemZ]

"But the fearful and unbelieving shall have their part in the Lake that burns with fire and brimstone which is the second death." -Rev. 21:8

Second death.. The unbeliever will be resurrected to appear before the Lord.



If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and
throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled
than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal
fire." Mat 18:8

Those thrown into the Lake of Fire will have bodies! But, not for long will they.


The unbeliever's resurrection body to stand before the Lord will not have everlasting life. So? When he is thrown into the Lake of Fire? He will die a second time. Second death! Physically and spiritually dead forever!

Yet... the unbeliever's soul will continue to exist. For the human soul was created in God's Image. Like God.. it will be around forever.

As for me? I may choose to take swims in the Lake of Fire. Nothing will hurt me in my resurrection body. No torment. No death.... A heavenly "sauna."

 

[FineLinen]

Second death.. The unbeliever will be resurrected to appear before the Lord. But, his resurrection body will not have everlasting life. So? When he is thrown into the Lake of Fire? He will die a second time. Second death! Dead forever! Yet... his soul will continue to exist. For the soul was created in God's Image. It will be around forever.

As for me? I may choose to take swims in the Lake of Fire. Nothing will hurt me in my resurrection body. No torment. No death....

You, young lad, are in for a rude awakening of unprecedented dimensions.

Perhaps after a few more years of His mighty dealings, you will hopefully awaken to not simply being justified by His love and grace, to being made the righteousness of God in Him.

At the close of that process, overcomer comes into view.

These are they who follow the Lamb withersoever He goes.

 

[GenemZ]

You, young lad, are in for a rude awakening of unprecedented dimensions.

Young lad? I am 71 years old! We are not in the Millennium yet. Got that kid?

The Lord did say we must "convert" and become like little children if we are to be great in His Kingdom.

Becoming young at heart.. is being off to a good start.

I was already an old man when I was twenty. The Lord renews our inner man daily if we are eating the right doctrine.

 

[Saint Steven]

Now then Steve...……….please post the Scriptures which say,
"Those in the Lake of Fire who bowed their knee and confessed that Jesus is Lord have BENN REMOVED FROM THE LOF and have been given a mansion in heaven"

What part of EVERY don't you understand?
EVERY knee and EVERY tongue in heaven and on earth and under the earth.
Are we missing anyone?

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Der Alte]

...

What part of EVERY don't you understand?
EVERY knee and EVERY tongue in heaven and on earth and under the earth.
Are we missing anyone?
Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

The concept of "in context" is unknown among UR-ites.
Contrary to what UR-its say, scripture does NOT say that all mankind will bow "in reverent love for their Maker." etc.
Exomolgeo occurs eleven times in the NT, in addition to Phil 2:11. In the other 10 it never means “whole-heartedly… without reservation (no holding back)”etc.

Matthew 3:6 “confessing their sins,” Matthew 11:25 “thank,” Mark 1:5 “confessing their sins,” Luke 10:21 “thank,” Luke 22:6 “promised,” Acts of the apostles 19:18 “confessed their deeds,” Romans 14:11 “confess,” Romans 15:9 “confess Christ,” James 5:16 “confess your faults,” Revelation 3:5 “confess his name”​

…..Scripture says that every knee will bow but only believers will do so freely, willingly in love and faith, the others will be conquered enemies. How will the enemies of Jesus feel?

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day,(fn) Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.[(fn) "That day" -the day of judgment.]​

After judgment there are no more chances for reconciliation.
The word of God says every knee will bow. It must be important because it is repeated 3 times.

1. Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
2. Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
3. Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;​

But the " the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, murderers, sexually immoral, those who practice magic, idolaters, liars," Rev 21:8, etc. who denied God and Christ all their lives will be forced to their knees, i.e. Jesus’ footstool, and forced to proclaim that Jesus is Lord.
This is another important point it is recorded 8 times in scripture. The followers of UR ignore these verses.

1. Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2. Matthew 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
3. Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
4. Luke 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Luke 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
5. Acts of the apostles 2:34-35
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool..
6. Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
7. Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;.
8. Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.​

What does “make your enemies your footstool mean?” Joshua, the OT type of Jesus, shows us in Josh. 10.

Joshua 10:17 And it was told Joshua, saying, The five kings [who fought against Israel] are found hid in a cave at Makkedah….
Joshua 10:22 Then said Joshua, Open the mouth of the cave, and bring out those five kings unto me out of the cave.
Joshua 10:23 And they did so, and brought forth those five kings unto him out of the cave, the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, and the king of Eglon.
Joshua 10:24 And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them.
…
Joshua 10:26 And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening.​

The enemies of Joshua, the OT type of Jesus, were made Joshua’s footstool, as Jesus' enemies will be, then destroyed. They did not become faithful, obedient members of his army.

 

[GenemZ]

What part of EVERY don't you understand?
EVERY knee and EVERY tongue in heaven and on earth and under the earth.
Are we missing anyone?

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

What business will reconciled souls have being under the earth?

Will the Abyss have been renovated and be used for a special vacation getaway perhaps?

 

[Saint Steven]

What business will reconciled souls have being under the earth?

Will the Abyss have been renovated and be used for a special vacation getaway perhaps?

I can't say that I understand it either, but apparently so.

Ezekiel 31:16
I made the nations tremble at the sound of its fall when I brought it down to the realm of the dead to be with those who go down to the pit. Then all the trees of Eden, the choicest and best of Lebanon, the well-watered trees, were consoled in the earth below.

 

[Saint Steven]

Sin originates from our flesh. Evil originated from a perfect being.

We are born sinners and many come to recognize sin as bad.

Evil on the other hand is thinking that justifies sinning. Evil justifies wrong doing.

Sin starts with an impulse that transforms into lust. Evil is that lust proving that what lust desires if good and to be approved of.

God forgives sin the moment we recognize our sin and admit it is sin. (1 John 1:9)

Evil resists what 1 John 1:9 requires. It rationalizes the need for confession away.

Sin is taken care of by confession.

To escape the consequences of evil, one must first accept truth and repent of the lie that evil wishes to propagate.

Evil originated with Satan. Lucifer desired to replace God with his own system. Satan had no sin nature at the time he conceived of evil. Lucifer created lies as his means to glorify and justify his desire for denying wrongdoing towards God.

Adam was tempted by evil from the outside which resulted in Adam becoming a sinner.
Satan had no outside evil to tempt him. Satan invented the lie while yet in a sinless state.

Sin requires confession. "Admitting wrongdoing."
Evil requires learning truth and then turning to repentance. "Transformation of how one thinks and changing."

You can confess sin, but you still remain a sinner able to sin again.
Repentance transforms one's thinking by accepting truth which results in a new expression of your person.

Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed response. Very thought-provoking.

Are you aware of any scriptures that support this comparison? (between sin and evil)

 

[Major1]

What part of EVERY don't you understand?
EVERY knee and EVERY tongue in heaven and on earth and under the earth.
Are we missing anyone?

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Steve, What part of...……..
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, THAT WHOSOVER BELIEVETH IN HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Do you not seem able to grasp??????

I agree that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ.

You have posted that Scripture now 7 times. Now for the 7th time...……...
POST THE SCRIPTURE WHICH SAYS THAT THOSE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE WHO ADMITT JESUS IS THE CHRIST ARE THEN DECLARED SAVED AND ARE REMOVED FROM THE TORMENTS OF THE LAKE OF FIRE".

Talk is cheep and you keep saying the same thing. It is way past time to end the talk and post the scriptures that support what you talk about.

 

[Major1]

I can't say that I understand it either, but apparently so.

Ezekiel 31:16
I made the nations tremble at the sound of its fall when I brought it down to the realm of the dead to be with those who go down to the pit. Then all the trees of Eden, the choicest and best of Lebanon, the well-watered trees, were consoled in the earth below.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

Hell—Sheol or Hades, the unseen world: equivalent to, "I cast him into oblivion" (compare Isa 14:9-11).
They shall be comforted—because so great a king as the Assyrian is brought down to a level with them. It is a kind of consolation to the wretched wicked lost to have companions in misery. (Hell).

 

[Major1]

What business will reconciled souls have being under the earth?

Will the Abyss have been renovated and be used for a special vacation getaway perhaps?

Do you think that the Bible teaches that there are different degrees of punishment in Lake of Fire?

If so, would that then speak to those who have never heard of Jesus Christ and died with out accepting Him?

 

[Major1]

Young lad? I am 71 years old! We are not in the Millennium yet. Got that kid?

The Lord did say we must "convert" and become like little children if we are to be great in His Kingdom.

Becoming young at heart.. is being off to a good start.

I was already an old man when I was twenty. The Lord renews our inner man daily if we are eating the right doctrine.

You still have a ways to go to catch me brother!

 

[FineLinen]

I agree that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ.

A couple of questions for you.

1. What is the scope of the confession in all realms of heaven, earth, and underworld?

2. Is the confession forced or by constraint?

3. What does being "in" the Name of Jesus mean?

 

[GenemZ]

I can't say that I understand it either, but apparently so.

Ezekiel 31:16
I made the nations tremble at the sound of its fall when I brought it down to the realm of the dead to be with those who go down to the pit. Then all the trees of Eden, the choicest and best of Lebanon, the well-watered trees, were consoled in the earth below.

Realm of the dead?

The dead are? Dead means?

Jesus said.. Let the dead bury their own dead.

UNBELIEVERS = DEAD!


Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!” Mk 12:26-27

Moses was not told that God "was" the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
But, that God was BEING the God of Abraham Isaac, and Jacob. Indicating that they are not dead, though their bodies no longer were.

That is why believers are said to "sleep" when their soul leaves the body. Believers are never called "dead."

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know
nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name
is forgotten." Ecc 9:5​

Name is forgotten by God! Unbeliever = dead.

For God is God of the living (believers), not the dead (unbelievers)!

 

[GenemZ]

Do you think that the Bible teaches that there are different degrees of punishment in Lake of Fire?

If so, would that then speak to those who have never heard of Jesus Christ and died with out accepting Him?

How can there be different degrees of punishment? The Lake of Fire is not going to have a shallow section for new swimmers. Sorry to be so blunt.

In the mean time... We will be so constantly pleased and amazed by the life the Lord will have us walk in.

When God decided to make man in His image? He had to leave room for man to be sovereign to reflect the nature of God.

Something that can not be touched, even by God. For we have been given an element of sovereignty that no one else can touch. That sovereignty was installed into our volition.

To answer the wise guy.. Yes, God was able to make a rock so heavy that even God can not lift it. Its called our volition. That is why men end up in the Lake of Fire. For its God's desire that none shall perish. Its only by men's sovereignty that they do.

 

[Major1]

How can there be different degrees of punishment? The Lake of Fire is not going to have a shallow section for new swimmers. Sorry to be so blunt.

In the mean time... We will be so constantly pleased and amazed by the life the Lord will have us walk in.

When God decided to make man in His image? He had to leave room for man to be sovereign to reflect the nature of God.

Something that can not be touched, even by God. For we have been given an element of sovereignty that no one else can touch. That sovereignty was installed into our volition.

To answer the wise guy.. Yes, God was able to make a rock so heavy that even God can not lift it. Its called our volition. That is why men end up in the Lake of Fire. For its God's desire that none shall perish. Its only by men's sovereignty that they do.

I only asked as I have given this a lot of thought and TO ME it seems to answer the question always posed by our dear friends in that they say...……..
"How could a loving God send innocent people to the Lake of Fire who have never heard of Jesus Christ"

Yes, I know......No one is innocent but that is THEIR argument.

IMO, I believe that there are very, very few who have not heard the name of Jesus Christ.
CHRISTMAS.
EASTER.
TV.
RADIO.

There is just too much information in the world for that to be an excuse IMO!

Although the Bible does not specifically say there are different levels of punishment in hell, it does seem to indicate that the judgment will indeed be experienced differently for different people.

A clear passage is Luke 10, where Jesus speaks of comparative punishment. First, Jesus says this about a village that rejects the gospel in verse #12 …...
“I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town”.

Then He speaks to Bethsaida and Chorazin in verse #14.....
“It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you”.

Whatever punishment the former residents of Sodom, Tyre, and Sidon were experiencing in hell, the Galilean towns that refused to hear Christ would experience more. It seems to me that the level of punishment in hell seems to be tied to the amount of light a person rejects.

If that is the case, then a person who had NEVER heard the gospel would still be eternally in the LOF but his punisment would not be the same degree say as the Pharisees who knew Jesus, knew the Law, knew the Scriptures and still killed the Messiah.

Just a thought!

 

[Major1]

A couple of questions for you.

1. What is the scope of the confession in all realms of heaven, earth, and underworld?

2. Is the confession forced or by constraint?

3. What does being "in" the Name of Jesus mean?

EVERY means EVERY.

Thank you for the questions as it gives me the opportunity to once again give out the TRUTH of God's Word to those who are reading what we say. THANKS AGAIN!!!!!!!

1.
The heretic that knowingly writes false prophecies to mislead people, will need to answer to Jesus. Every knee will bow to the Lord Jesus, Every knee, not just the save but also the unsaved.

The Atheist will bow down to Jesus, the Muslim will bow down to Jesus, the Buddhist will bow down to Jesus, every person in hell will bow the knee to Christ, every knee will one day bow down to Jesus because he is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. These are not just titles given, they are His authority over all of Creation!

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Romans 14:12

Bible says “Everyone” will give an account to God about your life! Not just the unsaved but also the saved. What have you done with your life? Have you lived to serve The Lord or serve yourself? Don’t waste your life in selfish deceit.

2.
There confession will be by their own admission.
Every single human being will eventually recognize Jesus Christ as God and Lord of all. There will be no getting around it at that point. Everyone will bow on that day. Believers will do so with reverence and joy, while unbelievers will make this recognition to their shame and regret because no matter what they confess, they will not and can not change their location which is in the Lake of Fire.

I have asked every single Universalist on this web site and YOU in particular 12 times to post ANY Scriptures which say that the people in hell who bow their knee to Christ and acknowledge Him as Lord of Lords will then be saved and removed from the Lake of Fire. NO ONE and that includes YOU have done so. WHY??????
BECAUSE THERE ARE NO SCRIPTURES WHICH SAY THAT ANYONE LEAVES THE LAKE OF FIRE.

I really do not like saying this to you or anyone else but my dear brother...….you guys are all TALK and no action, No Proof, No validation, No Scriptures. Just TAL, Talk and more TALK.

Who are you trying to convice......YOU????

3.

1. In Christ Jesus you were given grace before the world was created. Second Timothy 1:9, “He gave us grace in Christ Jesus before the ages began.”
   
   
2. In Christ Jesus you were chosen by God before creation. Ephesians 1:4, “[God] chose us in [Christ] before the foundation of the world.”
   
   
3. In Christ Jesus you are loved by God with an inseparable love. Romans 8:38–39, “I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
   
   
4. In Christ Jesus you were redeemed and forgiven for all your sins. Ephesians 1:7, “In [Christ] we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses.”
   
   
5. In Christ Jesus you are justified before God and the righteousness of God in Christ is imputed to you. Second Corinthians 5:21, “For our sake [God] made [Christ] to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”
   
   
6. In Christ Jesus you have become a new creation and a son of God. Second Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.” Galatians 3:26, “In Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.”
7. Six Things It Means to Be in Christ Jesus

I pray that you will never grow weary of exploring and exulting in the inexhaustible privilege of being “in Christ Jesus.”

 

[Major1]

I can't say that I understand it either, but apparently so.

Ezekiel 31:16
I made the nations tremble at the sound of its fall when I brought it down to the realm of the dead to be with those who go down to the pit. Then all the trees of Eden, the choicest and best of Lebanon, the well-watered trees, were consoled in the earth below.

Absolutely "astounding"!

 

[FineLinen]

I only asked as I have given this a lot of thought and TO ME it seems to answer the question always posed by our dear friends in that they say...……..
"How could a loving God send innocent people to the Lake of Fire who have never heard of Jesus Christ"

The Lake of Fire is the destination for the entire broken creatures of sin.

The problem all of us have is that by no choice of our own, (unwillingly), we have inherited a disposition of sin. We sin because that is are nature by birth.

Today, (and every day), 15K. children under age 5 die worldwide. They have not had time to prove their depravity, nor "accepted Christ as their Saviour".

There is no get out of jail free card!

We must be changed from "made sinners" to "made righteous" ! ! !

 

[GenemZ]

I only asked as I have given this a lot of thought and TO ME it seems to answer the question always posed by our dear friends in that they say...……..
"How could a loving God send innocent people to the Lake of Fire who have never heard of Jesus Christ"

Yes, I know......No one is innocent but that is THEIR argument.

The answer is found here. It all starts here. If they refuse this much there is no reason to present Christ to them other than to watch their negative reaction of rejection.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the
godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their
wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them,
because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the
world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—
have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so
that people are without excuse."​

Romans 1:18-20