The Big Question

[ViaCrucis]

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 26:14 - New Revised Standard Version

Yep, Paul says Jesus spoke Aramaic to him on the Damascus road.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 3 - New Revised Standard Version

Yep, clergy aren't to be married to more than one wife.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 6:16 - New Revised Standard Version

Yep, having sex with temple prostitutes isn't okay because our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit.

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 1:27 - New Revised Standard Version

Yep, turning away from the true God to the worship of idols is considered a bad thing, and the various cult sex that existed in the ancient world among those icky Gentile Pagans? Just icky. Of course if you kept reading you'd know what Paul's actual point here was.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

When you dont care about accuracy nothing makes sense.

Are you really coming in here, quote-mining passages from the Bible that you neither understand and don't seem to care about, and then accusing everyone else of not caring about accuracy?

Seriously dude, whatever your agenda is here the only thing you're accomplishing is demonstrating your own ignorance about various religions.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JaphethShemHam]

The Keys of the kingdom have nothing to do with "priesthood".

-CryptoLutheran

Smh.....did you not read the rest of the verse? Bind is a function of keys, but what should I expect from people who can't even number the 10 commandments correctly? How many people are those exactly? So The Big Question remains.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Smh.....did you not read the rest of the verse?

You meaning binding and loosing? Oh I'm fully aware of what the Keys are, again it has nothing to do with "priesthood".

In John 20 Jesus breathes on His apostles and says, "Receive the Holy Spirit, whoever's sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whoever's sins you retain are retained." (John 20:22-23)

This is the basis of Confession and Absolution. It has nothing to do with "priesthood". Christ gave His Church the authority to pronounce forgiveness of sins, the Apostles ordained bishops and presbyters--pastors--to continue and to safeguard their apostolic work. And the Church has always recognized that the Office of the Keys is exercised through the pastoral office.

This has nothing to do with "priesthood" and everything to do with the pastoral exercise of pronouncing forgiveness of sins in Christ's name and stead for the benefit of all the Faithful. That as ministers of Word and Sacrament pastors are charged with this sacred duty and ministry.

The only ἱεράτευμα (hierateuma) or "priesthood" in Christianity is the universal priesthood of all believers. The word "priest" in reference to Christian clergy comes from the Greek word πρεσβύτερος (presbyteros), presbyter. From Greek πρεσβύτερος, to Latin presbyter, shortened in early English to prester, and then to "priest". The word "priest" then came to be used to refer to religious officiators from other religions, for example the ancient Jewish kohanim are called "priests" in English, the hiereis and hiereia of ancient Greek Paganism are called "priests" and "priestesses" respectively in English. Etc.

However, in Christianity, clergy aren't "priests" the way the ancient Jewish kohanim were, or the way the ancient Greco-Roman priests and priestesses were.

Christian clergy are ministers of Word and Sacrament, pastors, not "priests" not hiereis.

Bind is a function of keys, but what should I expect from people who can't even number the 10 commandments correctly? How many people are those exactly? So The Big Question remains.

You do realize, of course, that there is no de facto way to number the 10 Commandments, right? As the text doesn't actually number them. The text says that God spoke these "ten words", but the text doesn't number them--that numbering of the 10 comes long after and has been done so differently depending on who you ask. Pretending that there is a right and wrong way to number the 10 Commandments demonstrates that you yourself don't have a clue what you're talking about.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JaphethShemHam]

You meaning binding and loosing? Oh I'm fully aware of what the Keys are, again it has nothing to do with "priesthood".

In John 20 Jesus breathes on His apostles and says, "Receive the Holy Spirit, whoever's sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whoever's sins you retain are retained." (John 20:22-23)

This is the basis of Confession and Absolution. It has nothing to do with "priesthood". Christ gave His Church the authority to pronounce forgiveness of sins, the Apostles ordained bishops and presbyters--pastors--to continue and to safeguard their apostolic work. And the Church has always recognized that the Office of the Keys is exercised through the pastoral office.

This has nothing to do with "priesthood" and everything to do with the pastoral exercise of pronouncing forgiveness of sins in Christ's name and stead for the benefit of all the Faithful. That as ministers of Word and Sacrament pastors are charged with this sacred duty and ministry.

The only ἱεράτευμα (hierateuma) or "priesthood" in Christianity is the universal priesthood of all believers. The word "priest" in reference to Christian clergy comes from the Greek word πρεσβύτερος (presbyteros), presbyter. From Greek πρεσβύτερος, to Latin presbyter, shortened in early English to prester, and then to "priest". The word "priest" then came to be used to refer to religious officiators from other religions, for example the ancient Jewish kohanim are called "priests" in English, the hiereis and hiereia of ancient Greek Paganism are called "priests" and "priestesses" respectively in English. Etc.

However, in Christianity, clergy aren't "priests" the way the ancient Jewish kohanim were, or the way the ancient Greco-Roman priests and priestesses were.

Christian clergy are ministers of Word and Sacrament, pastors, not "priests" not hiereis.



You do realize, of course, that there is no de facto way to number the 10 Commandments, right? As the text doesn't actually number them. The text says that God spoke these "ten words", but the text doesn't number them--that numbering of the 10 comes long after and has been done so differently depending on who you ask. Pretending that there is a right and wrong way to number the 10 Commandments demonstrates that you yourself don't have a clue what you're talking about.

-CryptoLutheran

Well if you believe Jesus came from the Jews, then you should believe Jews know how to number the 10 commandments that Jesus also referred to, or are they all pretending and Catholics and Lutherans have the right numbers.

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 20:28 - New Revised Standard Version

 

[JaphethShemHam]

I finally received a welcome!

 

[ViaCrucis]

Well if you believe Jesus came from the Jews, then you should believe Jews know how to number the 10 commandments that Jesus also referred to, or are they all pretending and Catholics and Lutherans have the right numbers.

There is no "the right numbers". There is no objective standard by which to number the commandments, only that in the text it says these are ten--so however they are numbered is frankly irrelevant. Jews and Christians of all varieties recognize the same Decalogue, we number number them differently--the substance remains the same.

I simply don't understand why this matters to you. The actual religions of the world that care about the ten commandments don't seem to care (mostly, apparently a handful of particularly anti-Catholic Protestants who are ignorant about this seem to care, but ignorance isn't a good basis for criticism) about this, so why do you?

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 20:28 - New Revised Standard Version

Yep, pastors are important. Not sure what that has to do with anything you've been talking about though.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JaphethShemHam]

There is no "the right numbers". There is no objective standard by which to number the commandments, only that in the text it says these are ten--so however they are numbered is frankly irrelevant. Jews and Christians of all varieties recognize the same Decalogue, we number number them differently--the substance remains the same.

I simply don't understand why this matters to you. The actual religions of the world that care about the ten commandments don't seem to care (mostly, apparently a handful of particularly anti-Catholic Protestants who are ignorant about this seem to care, but ignorance isn't a good basis for criticism) about this, so why do you?


Yep, pastors are important. Not sure what that has to do with anything you've been talking about though.

-CryptoLutheran

I don't need to be insulting. I'll just leave this for all to see.

 

[Hawkins]

The oldest writing is by a Sumerian King, The Epic of Gilgamesh, which bears a striking similarity to Noah and the Flood, not to mention The Code of Hammurabi has the 10 commandments and is from the same area, which just so happens to be where Abraham pbuh emigrated from.

If God exists, He authenticated Moses and validate the Jews' version/account of the flood. There are a lot of myths regarding to the flood from the various ethnic groups, including Chinese. That actually indicates that such a flood existed however human capability can only convey it in the form of myths, with the Jewish account authenticated by God. If God doesn't exist, whoever said whatever doesn't matter.

As a coincidence, in the Chinese myth of the flood the goddess who saved Chinese is with a name pronounced as "Noah". This to a certain extent, may reflect a God-flood-Noah linking.

 

[Hawkins]

Did you know some Jews teach that China is the land of Nod, where Cain was sent, a derivative of Canaan, ie. Merchant.

I heard, some Chinese Christians believe that Chinese are the descendants of Shem.

 

[JaphethShemHam]

I heard, some Chinese Christians believe that Chinese are the descendants of Shem.

Well it's been established that haplotype J1 is the origin of Semitic people, Jews and Arabs. Ancestral Adam being haplotype A and Africa further down Haplotype E and the furthest down Haplotype R being Europeans. Interestingly the Chinese haplotype is between ancestral Adam and Africa, making it older than Shem and Ham.

 

[Hawkins]

Well it's been established that haplotype J1 is the origin of Semitic people, Jews and Arabs. Ancestral Adam being haplotype A and Africa further down Haplotype E and the furthest down Haplotype R being Europeans. Interestingly the Chinese haplotype is between ancestral Adam and Africa, making it older than Shem and Ham.

By the myth of flood, no one can be older than Shem and Ham, except for Noah. So Chinese are from one of Noah's sons anyway, and carried the flood story to the region. Ancient history is rather a subjective speculation though.