JaphethShemHam

Active Member
Jun 26, 2020
27
1
47
Boston
✟8,777.00
Country
United States
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
Before I ask The Big Question, that anyone from the Abrahamic faiths can answer, I will be as transparent about myself and my efforts as possible. Born and raised in the USA to a military family that was half Baptist and half Catholic I was always hearing from one side the other was going to hell, so I made every effort to "figure it out." After 2 divorces, 1 from a Baptist and 1 from a Catholic, I reverted to Islam and am now married without fear of divorce and have my first son due in December, which prompts The Big Question, because I want to teach my son everything right.

The Big Question is if descendants, population, prosperity, ect. are the greatest blessings, then why are the most spoken languages in the world not from the Abrahamic faiths? Here in America we "never forget" the holocaust, but what about all the people Stalin and Mao murdered? Yet their languages are the most populous.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_2020-06-26-20-02-29.jpg
    Screenshot_2020-06-26-20-02-29.jpg
    302.6 KB · Views: 2

Andrewn

Well-Known Member
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Jul 4, 2019
5,802
4,309
-
✟681,411.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Born and raised in the USA to a military family that was half Baptist and half Catholic I was always hearing from one side the other was going to hell, so I made every effort to "figure it out." After 2 divorces, 1 from a Baptist and 1 from a Catholic, I reverted to Islam
How did you revert to Islam if your parents, and you, were never Muslims before?

and am now married without fear of divorce
You don't have fear of divorce bec in Islam it's commonplace and easy to get?

The Big Question is if descendants, population, prosperity, ect. are the greatest blessings,
No, these are not the greatest blessings. Only someone who have no idea about God's character can make such a comment.

why are the most spoken languages in the world not from the Abrahamic faiths?
Is this your Big Question?!! What does this have to do with spiritual blessings?
 
Upvote 0

Aussie Pete

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 14, 2019
9,081
8,285
Frankston
Visit site
✟727,630.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Before I ask The Big Question, that anyone from the Abrahamic faiths can answer, I will be as transparent about myself and my efforts as possible. Born and raised in the USA to a military family that was half Baptist and half Catholic I was always hearing from one side the other was going to hell, so I made every effort to "figure it out." After 2 divorces, 1 from a Baptist and 1 from a Catholic, I reverted to Islam and am now married without fear of divorce and have my first son due in December, which prompts The Big Question, because I want to teach my son everything right.

The Big Question is if descendants, population, prosperity, ect. are the greatest blessings, then why are the most spoken languages in the world not from the Abrahamic faiths? Here in America we "never forget" the holocaust, but what about all the people Stalin and Mao murdered? Yet their languages are the most populous.
History is selective according to the world view of the historian. Stalin and Hitler were equally depraved but the USSR locked up most of its records until it fell apart and the archives were made public. Many myths about the USSR were dispelled. Most of the world saw China as a money pit to be excavated. It's difficult to complain about human rights violations when you have your hand in their in pocket. The Chinese outwitted the Western world big time.

I don't know for sure, but I believe that there was a fair amount of collective guilt about WW2. Hitler had laid out his plan for the conquest of Europe and the east while he was in prison. He stated that the Jews were the problem that faced Germany and they had to be exterminated. He went to war, and he carried out his "racial purification" program. Europe watched the lead up to WW2 and did precisely nothing to stop it. 6 million Jews paid the price for Europe's ostrich mentality. It seems that the world was determined that it would not happen again. Stalin outsmarted Roosevelt, who drove a wedge between him and Churchill. Roosevelt fantasised that the USSR would forsake communism and become a democracy. Churchill was never convinced.

One of the USA's great self delusions is that the whole world wants to be democratic. It does not - the Middle East is a prime example. Israel is the region's only real democracy, flawed as it may be. That may also contribute to a soft spot for Jews. They are in the "democracy club". Europe is more mercenary than the USA. They need the Arabs far more than they need Israel. There is much less pro Israel sentiment in Europe.

English is widely spoken simply because the British ruled a great deal of the world. French is also widely used. South America speaks Spanish because Spain conquered much of South America.
 
Upvote 0

JaphethShemHam

Active Member
Jun 26, 2020
27
1
47
Boston
✟8,777.00
Country
United States
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
Thanks AussiePete for the detailed response, but I'm thinking more along the lines of all the scriptural references to population from the Abrahamic blessings and the modern day inconsistencies. Without starting a whole class, the cliff notes from a random google search can be found here:
20 Bible verses about Blessings, To Abraham

As for AndrewN I'll save you the trouble of doing your own research.

1. Muslims revert because they believe we are all born Muslim and descendants of the Prophets Adam pbuh and Noah pbuh.

2. Divorce in Christianity is only allowed for adultery and polygamy is not allowed.

This thread is not about spiritual blessings, it's about demographics, let's stay on topic.
 
Upvote 0

Quid est Veritas?

In Memoriam to CS Lewis
Feb 27, 2016
7,319
9,272
South Africa
✟316,433.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
So neither Arabic nor Mandarin Chinese really has the most home language speakers, as both of those act as the Classical Language in their societies. Day to day life is conducted in dialects of the classical language, which have enough differentiation to really be 'different languages'.

So really we have a situation similar to French, Castillian Spanish, Catalan, Galician, Portuguese, Italian, Sardinian, etc. in the Romance language continuum. Each villager can understand the village next door, but gradually changes as you move further away, so that the first village can't understand the last village in the spectrum anymore. Thanks to Westphalian States and Centralisation, each of these 'vulgar tongues' has been standardised according to a set of the dialect (Tuscan for Italian, Langue d'oui for French, etc.). This then became a 'language', which is roughly just a dialect backed up by an army and bureaucracy.

Mandarin Chinese and Arabic are thus analogous to how Latin used to act as the lingua franca across a dialect continuum, so applying that standard, the most spoken language with the most descendants in the world is Latin.

English is however the most spoken if second language speakers are taken into account, as a result of Empire and the dominance of Britain since the 7 years war in the 18th and then shifting to American since WWII. For 250 or so years, English speakers have been dominant militarily and in the realm of technology, with outsized cultural influence, so this is easily explicable. Languages expand not just by being taught from mother to child, but also by adoption as a second language before replacing the first. That is how Latin replaced the other Italic languages and the Celtic ones, or how Arabic replaced Aramaic and Aramaic itself replaced Akkadian. This was by adoption, not descent.

That said, Latin has been the language of an Abrahamic religious tradition since at least the 4th century AD, and English from the 7th. So along with Arabic, the languages with an Abrahamic religious tradition easily dwarf all others. Abraham probably spoke a North-West Semitic language afterall, if not an East Semitic one even, so his continuous 'descendants' largely are not speaking a language derived from his - even modern Hebrew was recreated, as Jews in diaspora spoke Yiddish or Ladino or Mizraic Arabic or such.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: zippy2006
Upvote 0

Quid est Veritas?

In Memoriam to CS Lewis
Feb 27, 2016
7,319
9,272
South Africa
✟316,433.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
As an addendum, the origin of Arabic itself is debated. Proto-Arabic seems to have arose roughly in the Ghassanid bordelands near old Nabataea, although our earliest probable inscription is by a Lakhsmid. Others say it arose more in the Hejaz. Some place it with the South Semitic languages of Yemen, some as its own subfamily of Central Semitic, but either way, it was a sort of koine of various Semitic dialects. The fantasy of Arabic being continuously spoken and lacking borrowings from other languages, is clearly false on even the most rudimentary investigation. It does seem to have been more the language of the Ishmaelite Arabs though, of which Mohammed was one, rather than the Arabs in general. While we can't really say what Abraham spoke, it probably wasn't Arabic and likely in a separate branch of the Semitic languages from it. Regardless, the idea of descent is quite fluid, as the declaration of Ruth, or the admission of the Kenites, or Paul with neither Jew nor Gentile, makes plain. Abraham is the father of nations, not necessarily in a literal descent, which is as true for the traditional nations of Europe as it is for the Maghrebi, or the pure Arabs, or the Falasha or Khazarian Jews.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: zippy2006
Upvote 0

Andrewn

Well-Known Member
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Jul 4, 2019
5,802
4,309
-
✟681,411.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Muslims revert because they believe we are all born Muslim and descendants of the Prophets Adam pbuh and Noah pbuh.
Muslims believe that Islam is deen al fitrah: the religion of "original disposition" that all people are born with.

Fitra - Wikipedia

So, what is human's original disposition or natural disposition with which we are born?

Many Christians believe that human beings are born with an "original sin."

Original sin - Wikipedia

Jews believe we are born with an "evil disposition."

Yetzer hara - Wikipedia

Psychologists believe that we are born with an "id."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_e...//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego

All 3 concepts are more or less similar. Human beings are born with survival instincts that are beneficial in childhood but can be dangerous to the society if they continue unchecked in adolescence and adulthood. You cannot develop a civilized society without learning ethics and morals.

This is deen al fitrah that Islam promotes and keeps unchecked. Without true religion, the Torah says about Ishmael son of Abraham:

Gen 16:12 He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers."

Divorce in Christianity is only allowed for adultery and polygamy is not allowed.
If you live in the US, you have to follow civilized laws regarding divorce and polygamy and cannot practice deen al fitrah, here.

Born and raised in the USA to a military family that was half Baptist and half Catholic I was always hearing from one side the other was going to hell,
Your parents accusations to one another show that you were probably never taught true Christianity: the religion of compassion and tolerance that built hospitals and schools all over the world. But not all "Christians" are true Christians, many practice deen al fitrah (the original disposition). Perhaps you did not "revert" you Islam but have always been a Muslim.

Gal 3:6-7 Just as Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” know then that those who have faith are children of Abraham.

People do not follow God through "natural disposition" but through faith. You can speak any language and be a child of Abraham.

The Big Question is if descendants, population, prosperity, ect. are the greatest blessings, then why are the most spoken languages in the world not from the Abrahamic faiths?
The most-spoken language in the world is English. Most educated people around the world speak at least some English. People strive to learn English everywhere. If this is a Christian language, then you've got the answer to your Big Question. And the second language is Spanish, ditto.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

JaphethShemHam

Active Member
Jun 26, 2020
27
1
47
Boston
✟8,777.00
Country
United States
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
As an addendum, the origin of Arabic itself is debated. Proto-Arabic seems to have arose roughly in the Ghassanid bordelands near old Nabataea, although our earliest probable inscription is by a Lakhsmid. Others say it arose more in the Hejaz. Some place it with the South Semitic languages of Yemen, some as its own subfamily of Central Semitic, but either way, it was a sort of koine of various Semitic dialects. The fantasy of Arabic being continuously spoken and lacking borrowings from other languages, is clearly false on even the most rudimentary investigation. It does seem to have been more the language of the Ishmaelite Arabs though, of which Mohammed was one, rather than the Arabs in general. While we can't really say what Abraham spoke, it probably wasn't Arabic and likely in a separate branch of the Semitic languages from it. Regardless, the idea of descent is quite fluid, as the declaration of Ruth, or the admission of the Kenites, or Paul with neither Jew nor Gentile, makes plain. Abraham is the father of nations, not necessarily in a literal descent, which is as true for the traditional nations of Europe as it is for the Maghrebi, or the pure Arabs, or the Falasha or Khazarian Jews.
I have to say I am grateful for such an informative response and went down this road myself and came to a different conclusion, hence this thread.

If you look further down the list of top 100 native languages spoken you would find that 8 out of 100 are Sino-Tibetan dialects of chinese, keep in mind I am referring to language to point out religious population. For example, if the Mongol Empire existed today Chinese Folk religion would be the largest religion demographically within that empire's borders. Keep in mind the combined population of East Asian and South Asian is 4.6b and Caucasian is about .85b globally.

Personally I choose to pray in Arabic because it is a Semitic language and fulfills the prophecy of Noah that Shem will bless God and Abraham was commisioned first to do justice. However I call into the accuracy of the Torah as some Jews can't agree on how to spell all the words and modern Hebrew is a recreation by a secular government that not even Einstein wanted any part of. I disagree that Arabic dialects are different languages. I know Moroccans and Iraqis that understand each other perfectly by simply not speaking in their dialect, all prayers are in the same Arabic. That can't be said for all latin languages, so here remains The Big Question.
 
Upvote 0

Quid est Veritas?

In Memoriam to CS Lewis
Feb 27, 2016
7,319
9,272
South Africa
✟316,433.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
I have to say I am grateful for such an informative response and went down this road myself and came to a different conclusion, hence this thread.

If you look further down the list of top 100 native languages spoken you would find that 8 out of 100 are Sino-Tibetan dialects of chinese, keep in mind I am referring to language to point out religious population. For example, if the Mongol Empire existed today Chinese Folk religion would be the largest religion demographically within that empire's borders. Keep in mind the combined population of East Asian and South Asian is 4.6b and Caucasian is about .85b globally.

Personally I choose to pray in Arabic because it is a Semitic language and fulfills the prophecy of Noah that Shem will bless God and Abraham was commisioned first to do justice. However I call into the accuracy of the Torah as some Jews can't agree on how to spell all the words and modern Hebrew is a recreation by a secular government that not even Einstein wanted any part of. I disagree that Arabic dialects are different languages. I know Moroccans and Iraqis that understand each other perfectly by simply not speaking in their dialect, all prayers are in the same Arabic. That can't be said for all latin languages, so here remains The Big Question.
Well again, Arabic is not their home language. They are taught Arabic in school and at madrasseh, so this situation is exactly the same as how in Europe a Frechman and an Italian might communicate in Latin in olden days. If suddenly a rise in the vernaculars sweep the Middle East, where they stop using it as a lingua franca and eventually teaching it (as happened to Latin in the 20th century), then Arabic would be as 'dead' in 2 or 3 generations. It is simply a cultural institution, not a mother tongue descending from parent to child, although the vernaculars are its descendants. So as far as I am concerned, the Big Question is moot and hedged by all kinds of assumptions, such as Semitic languages being of descent from Shem (as some Semitic peoples are biblically listed as Hamite, or non-semitic speakers as descendants of Shem). This reminds me of Charles V, who is said to have spoken Latin to God, Spanish to men, Italian to women, and German to his horse. I don't think it matters what language you pray with, and languages are poor markers of descent, as they are malleable and change, with prestige languages often replacing local ones gradually thanks to historic forces - which is why Arabic has its present range in fact, not descent. Arabic would be incomprehensible to Abraham, just as Latin would be, but both are significantly associated with an Abrahamic legacy.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Andrewn
Upvote 0

JaphethShemHam

Active Member
Jun 26, 2020
27
1
47
Boston
✟8,777.00
Country
United States
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
The Big Question isn't about Arabic, it's about the 4.6 billion Asians that appear to be blessed with more descebdants than the Abrahamic faiths combined! You are mistaken about Arabic in the home and what mothers say to their children. All prayers are in Arabic, from the moment the baby is born and in the house. Muslims do not pray in different dialects, they pray in one Arabic of Semitic origin.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JaphethShemHam

Active Member
Jun 26, 2020
27
1
47
Boston
✟8,777.00
Country
United States
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
Muslims believe that Islam is deen al fitrah: the religion of "original disposition" that all people are born with.

Fitra - Wikipedia

So, what is human's original disposition or natural disposition with which we are born?

Many Christians believe that human beings are born with an "original sin."

Original sin - Wikipedia

Jews believe we are born with an "evil disposition."

Yetzer hara - Wikipedia

Psychologists believe that we are born with an "id."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_e...//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego

All 3 concepts are more or less similar. Human beings are born with survival instincts that are beneficial in childhood but can be dangerous to the society if they continue unchecked in adolescence and adulthood. You cannot develop a civilized society without learning ethics and morals.

This is deen al fitrah that Islam promotes and keeps unchecked. Without true religion, the Torah says about Ishmael son of Abraham:

Gen 16:12 He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers."


If you live in the US, you have to follow civilized laws regarding divorce and polygamy and cannot practice deen al fitrah, here.


Your parents accusations to one another show that you were probably never taught true Christianity: the religion of compassion and tolerance that built hospitals and schools all over the world. But not all "Christians" are true Christians, many practice deen al fitrah (the original disposition). Perhaps you did not "revert" you Islam but have always been a Muslim.

Gal 3:6-7 Just as Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” know then that those who have faith are children of Abraham.

People do not follow God through "natural disposition" but through faith. You can speak any language and be a child of Abraham.


The most-spoken language in the world is English. Most educated people around the world speak at least some English. People strive to learn English everywhere. If this is a Christian language, then you've got the answer to your Big Question. And the second language is Spanish, ditto.
I didn't say anything about my parents and your inflammatory choice of words reveal your own spirit more than anything.
English is the most spoken language and is also my native language and my origin and I can say for certain it is not the most spoken language for religious reasons or even judicial, it's spoken for commercial reasons. In Islam we have a teaching, he who is not kind, does not have faith.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Andrewn
Upvote 0

Quid est Veritas?

In Memoriam to CS Lewis
Feb 27, 2016
7,319
9,272
South Africa
✟316,433.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
4.6 billion Asians that appear to be blessed with more descebdants than the Abrahamic faiths combined!
You seem to have your facts mixed up there. More than half of the world population follows an Abrahamic faith. According to the Pew centre, about 54% of humanity does, with estimates ranging upwards from there to about 65% depending on source. Many of those of course, speak non-Semitic languages, such as the many Muslims of Indonesia and Bangladesh, or the Christians and Muslims of sub-Saharan Africa, so I can only conclude you are falsely equating language and religion here still. Abraham's spiritual descendants are the overall majority of humanity.

You are mistaken about Arabic in the home and what mothers say to their children. All prayers are in Arabic, from the moment the baby is born and in the house. Muslims do not pray in different dialects, they pray in one Arabic of Semitic origin.
And Catholics used to pray in Latin and held Church therein, till the mid 20th.

In South Africa where I am from, we have an old Islamic population from the 17th century, brought over by the Dutch, speaking mostly Afrikaans as their home language. Now in the 19th century, they requested the British to send them a learned imam. So the British asked the Ottomans for one, and a guy called Abu Bakr Effendi was despatched to the Cape. He found the population ignorant of many aspects of Islam, and while mumbling prayers in Arabic, they did not understand much of it - so he translated the Koran and prayers into Afrikaans, so that the people could have an idea what they were saying and founded madrasseh.

Now in Afrikaans the word for a magical intonation is Siem salla biem, which betrays its origins as an Arabic religious phrase, little understood. The same thing happened in English, where hocus pocus is derived from the Latin words of the Mass. A liturgical language is mostly just understood by the educated, with the great mass of the people usually having a rudimentary instruction long since forgotten, or in the process of being so, while repeating the rote formulaic phraseology from it. This is slightly different when the Liturgical language is the ancestor of the vernacular, as using your knowledge of the latter, you can vaguely understand a bit of the former, but pretending Arabic is fluently understood and passing from mother to child is simply nonsense. The religious overlay, the prayers, certainly; but not the language properly, which is why devout muslims spend so much on getting their children educated in it, before the long decay sets in. Just like Latin in Europe in the olden days, or Sumerian in ancient Assyria, in fact.
 
Upvote 0

Tom 1

Optimistic sceptic
Site Supporter
Nov 13, 2017
12,212
12,526
Tarnaveni
✟818,769.00
Country
Romania
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Before I ask The Big Question, that anyone from the Abrahamic faiths can answer, I will be as transparent about myself and my efforts as possible. Born and raised in the USA to a military family that was half Baptist and half Catholic I was always hearing from one side the other was going to hell, so I made every effort to "figure it out." After 2 divorces, 1 from a Baptist and 1 from a Catholic, I reverted to Islam and am now married without fear of divorce and have my first son due in December, which prompts The Big Question, because I want to teach my son everything right.

The Big Question is if descendants, population, prosperity, ect. are the greatest blessings, then why are the most spoken languages in the world not from the Abrahamic faiths? Here in America we "never forget" the holocaust, but what about all the people Stalin and Mao murdered? Yet their languages are the most populous.

If you take Christianity to be an Abrahamic faith, then English is the first or second language of many of the world’s Christians, largely because of the industrial revolutions across Europe and subsequent expansion. With the advent of Christianity questions of place, ethnicity, culture etc became irrelevant (to Christians anyway). Despite the obsession with Jerusalem the city within some Christian groups, we are called to worship ‘in spirit and truth’, with location, possessions, status etc not being relevant factors.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Andrewn
Upvote 0

JaphethShemHam

Active Member
Jun 26, 2020
27
1
47
Boston
✟8,777.00
Country
United States
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
Equating language with religion falsely would be what the Roman Jews did for the New Testament. The Book of Acts states that Jesus spoke Hebrew to his Apostles and elsewhere that they were given the power to speak all languages. We know that Aramaic was the language of Jesus time and there is a claim that the Book of Matthew was written in Aramaic, albeit from a Greek source, as all the Gospels were, but only Hebrew and Aramaic are Semitic and Abrahamic languages and Christians that speak those native languages are in very small number. Considering the scripture for the commisioning of the 12 and the process for replacing Judas after he died, there should have been a never ending Commission of 12 that spoke Hebrew or Aramaic or inevitably Syrian, which just is not how history played out. Even if you consider that the Gospels were written in Greek then the Greek Orthodox should have been the authority on interpreting their own language, instead they ended becoming communist and now bankrupt chain smokers that cant even win a medal in their own Olympics. My point is over half the Christian population is Catholic and would be declared apostasy in the time of Jesus. A quick read of 1Timothy 3 reveals the rules for a Bishop which Catholicism clearly does not follow and their practice of celibacy has produced rampant homosexual pedophilia that contradicts the Noahide laws to be fruitful and multiply. That being said I do not consider anyone that declares catholic in their creed to be of the Abrahamic faith, ie. Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodist all do or anyone that teaches Abraham pbuh and Sarah pbuh had the same father! Of the over 20k denominations of Christianity very few can trace their "royal priesthood" to Jesus. So here again remains The Big Question, if 1.2b Catholics are the chosen, then why are 6.1b people blessed with more descendants or how ever you want to slice it.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,462
26,892
Pacific Northwest
✟732,319.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Before I ask The Big Question, that anyone from the Abrahamic faiths can answer, I will be as transparent about myself and my efforts as possible. Born and raised in the USA to a military family that was half Baptist and half Catholic I was always hearing from one side the other was going to hell, so I made every effort to "figure it out." After 2 divorces, 1 from a Baptist and 1 from a Catholic, I reverted to Islam and am now married without fear of divorce and have my first son due in December, which prompts The Big Question, because I want to teach my son everything right.

The Big Question is if descendants, population, prosperity, ect. are the greatest blessings, then why are the most spoken languages in the world not from the Abrahamic faiths? Here in America we "never forget" the holocaust, but what about all the people Stalin and Mao murdered? Yet their languages are the most populous.

Why would one think that descendants, population, prosperity, etc are the "greatest blessings?

How do you figure that Stalin's language (Russian) is one of the most populous? Now, Mandarin? Absolutely one of the most spoken languages in the world, and that is largely because China is an incredibly populous nation.

After Mandarin, the most widely spoken languages in the world are:

1. Spanish
2. English
3. Hindi
4. Arabic
5. Bengali
6. Portuguese
7. Russian

There are certainly a lot of Russian speakers, again, Russia is a big country with a large population.

So I guess I don't understand this "Big Question", because the assumption that things like prosperity and cultural influence are "the greatest blessings" isn't an assumption I share and don't see a reason for accepting it; and just from a purely statistical perspective while it's true that the Stalinist and Maoist regimes were brutally horrific, it does not follow that the largest number of speakers are Russian and Mandarin, only Mandarin is. As can be seen, Spanish, English, Hindi, Arabic, Bengali, and Portuguese are all more widely spoken than Russian is.

I suppose, yes, Russian is a more widely spoken language than, say speakers of Taushiro, which as of the last time these things were recorded all the way back in 2002, there was only one known native speaker. So, relatively speaking, Russian is a far more widely spoken language than a lot of languages.

Is there a point here that I'm missing?

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,462
26,892
Pacific Northwest
✟732,319.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Equating language with religion falsely would be what the Roman Jews did for the New Testament.

Huh?

The Book of Acts states that Jesus spoke Hebrew to his Apostles

In antiquity Jewish Palestinian Aramaic is often called "Hebrew", meaning "the language of the Hebrews". Actual Hebrew had fallen out of disuse for centuries among Palestinian Jews. So when you read "Hebrew" in ancient sources such as the books of the New Testament or elsewhere, it is almost always going to mean Aramaic, specifically the dialect of Aramaic that was spoken by Palestinian Jews.

and elsewhere that they were given the power to speak all languages. We know that Aramaic was the language of Jesus time and there is a claim that the Book of Matthew was written in Aramaic, albeit from a Greek source,

This is a bit backwards. Ancient tradition says that Matthew composed a list of sayings (logia) of Jesus in Aramaic, but then later wrote the Gospel which bears his name in Greek. So the original Matthew was in Greek, the Aramaic "proto-gospel" is known only by tradition. Though it is somewhat interesting that modern scholarship tends to speak of a the hypothetical Q-document, often along with the Markan Priority hypothesis (with a minority of scholars adhering to a Matthean Priority). The supposed Q-document shares a lot in common with the traditional Aramaic sayings text attributed to St. Matthew.

Note, also, that those ancient sources use "Hebrew" here, which again meant Aramaic at the time.

as all the Gospels were, but only Hebrew and Aramaic are Semitic and Abrahamic languages and Christians that speak those native languages are in very small number.

Syriac and other Aramaic languages were spoken in Christian communities where those languages already existed. Christianity adapted to and adopted the languages of its adherents. When Christianity went to Egypt, the language of the indigenous Egyptian Church was Coptic. When Christianity went to Ethiopia, the language of the indigenous Ethiopian Church was Ge'ez (which, just for the record, is also a Semitic language). Christianity among the Slavs was Slavic, Christianity among the Latins was Latin, Christianity among the Celts was Celtic, etc.

Considering the scripture for the commisioning of the 12 and the process for replacing Judas after he died, there should have been a never ending Commission of 12 that spoke Hebrew or Aramaic or inevitably Syrian, which just is not how history played out.

Why? There is no indication that a continuation of twelve apostles was ever necessary, nor does it matter what languages they spoke. Judas was replaced, this was something the Eleven decided to do because they felt it important to keep their number--but when the twelve apostles began to die nobody felt the need to replace them.

Instead the apostles ordained bishops and presbyters to act as pastors of the various communities which they established. Which is why we have the bishop of Rome as the successor of St. Peter, the bishop of Antioch as the successor of Sts. Peter and Paul, the bishop of Alexandria as the successor of St. Mark, the bishop of Byzantium (later Constantinople) as the successor of St. Andrew, the bishop of Jerusalem the successor of St. James, etc. The apostolic authority of the Church was preserved through those the apostles chose to continue in their stead to look over the churches.

This is where Christian pastors come from, consisting of bishops and presbyters.

Even if you consider that the Gospels were written in Greek then the Greek Orthodox should have been the authority on interpreting their own language, instead they ended becoming communist and now bankrupt chain smokers that cant even win a medal in their own Olympics.

I can assure you, that the Greek Orthodox Church didn't "become communist". As for the rest, uh...what?

Just so we're clear, the Greek Orthodox Church is one autocephelous body within Eastern Orthodoxy. Other autocephelous jurisdictions within Eastern Orthodoxy include the Russian Orthodox Church, the Georgian Orthodox Church, the Antiochene Orthodox Church, the Serbian Orthodox Church, the Orthodox Church in America, and so on and so forth. Eastern Orthodoxy is a single religious body consisting of semi-autonomous (autocephelous) church bodies; since Orthodoxy does not recognize a single individual as being the "leader" of all Orthodox Christians. Orthodoxy believes that the Church has only one Head, and that's Jesus Christ, but the Church is organized geographically, with patriarchal bishops overseeing each autocephelous jurisdiction, and each jurisdiction consisting of a number of diocese each with their own bishop, with presbyters under them serving the local communities within those diocese.

Historically the Church recognized five major centers of Christianity, and each of the bishops of those major centers became known as patriarchs, and their pastoral sees as "patriarchates". These five ancient sees constitute was was called the Pentarchy, and they consisted of Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem.

My point is over half the Christian population is Catholic and would be declared apostasy in the time of Jesus.

On the basis of....what exactly?

Because most Catholics don't speak Syriac or some other Semitic language? That's...that's weird.

A quick read of 1Timothy 3 reveals the rules for a Bishop which Catholicism clearly does not follow and their practice of celibacy has produced rampant homosexual pedophilia that contradicts the Noahide laws to be fruitful and multiply.

1) The proscription prohibits the ordination of men who have more than one wife or who are unfaithful; it does not proscribe that bishops must be married.

2) In Catholicism celibacy is only a requirement in the Latin Rite. This is why there are lots of married Catholic priests all around the world, most of them just aren't in the Latin Rite, but are in one of the Eastern Rites. And even in the Latin Rite there are known cases of exemption, there are a number of cases of Anglican priests converting to Catholicism, and these married Anglican priests are able to receive Holy Orders and remain married.

Further: Clerical celibacy is not, in Catholicism, some kind of doctrine; it is instead regarded as a discipline--which is why it is not universal within Catholicism and only applies to Latin Rite Catholic priests.

Even Further: The conflating of homosexuality with pedophilia is alarminly homophobic here; but ignoring that for the moment, how do you figure that celibacy is the cause of child abuse? Does getting married somehow make someone not abuse children? Because, I don't know if you've ever watched the news before, but maybe you should?

That being said I do not consider anyone that declares catholic in their creed to be of the Abrahamic faith, ie. Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodist all do or anyone that teaches Abraham pbuh and Sarah pbuh had the same father! Of the over 20k denominations of Christianity very few can trace their "royal priesthood" to Jesus. So here again remains The Big Question, if 1.2b Catholics are the chosen, then why are 6.1b people blessed with more descendants or how ever you want to slice it.

I...don't...what?

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums