Anti-Christ update

[jgr]

Is Satan worth discussing?

Is he one of the 144,000?

 

[Timtofly]

Is he one of the 144,000?

Is the earth round?

 

[jgr]

Is the earth round?

Yes. So that must mean that Satan is one of the 144,000.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes. So that must mean that Satan is one of the 144,000.

God does not force any one to believe what they believe.

 

[nolidad]

Oh... what mental gymnastics you are willing to do to intentionally
IGNORE and REJECT what Jesus NAMED in Scripture. The only
problem is that you cannot erase what Jesus said....
it is in the Bible. Do you REJECT the Bible?

Or do you imagine there are "wheat and tares" in Heaven?
Is THAT what you are saying child?


(1) JESUS specifically NAMED the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven"

Mat 22:2
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king,
which made a marriage for his son,


(2) JESUS specifically NAMED the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"

Mat 13:24
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed
good seed in his field:


(3) JESUS also NAMED the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"

Mat 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins,
which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.


(4) And JESUS specifically NAMED the Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven"

Mat 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west,
and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob,
in the kingdom of heaven.


My only question to you is this:
If you are going to REJECT and IGNORE Scriptures you don't like,
then (a) how can you call yourself "Christian" and (b) how many
different Scriptures will you REJECT... will you reject 10 verses?
will you REJECT 50 verses? Will you REJECT 100 verses?

--------------------------------------------------------
The phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" is used thirty-three (33)
times in the Bible and every time the phrase represents
the many unsaved "tares" and/or the few saved "wheat",
associated with preaching the "Word of the Kingdom"
(the Gospel) during one of the FOUR KINGDOMS on earth...
or it represents ONLY the saved "wheat" harvested into
the (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven".
-------------------------------------------------------------
The four "Kingdoms of Heaven" are physical and temporal
Kingdoms... and there's a "harvest" of Saints at the end of
each, with the "Final Harvest" including only the "Wise Virgins"
living during the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1]
---------------------------------------------------------
The phrase "Kingdom of God" is used seventy (70) times
in the Bible and every time it represents the Holy Spirit of God
and/or the souls (but not the bodies) of the saved "wheat"
who have been regenerated by His "indwelling" Holy Spirit.
To be clear, the "Kingdom of God" is a SUBSET of
the "Kingdom of Heaven" since it only includes the saved
"wheat", and not the unsaved "tares".
---------------------------------
Therefore, the Bible can use the phrases interchangeably
when it focuses only on the "wheat" within the Kingdom.
When focused only on the "wheat", the Bible can use
"Kingdom of Heaven" OR "Kingdom of God". And that
is why we have several parallel passages in the Bible
that can (and do) interchange these two phrases.
-----------------------------------

.

You are making a typical error many Christians make. Taking the parables and making doctrines out of them.

The kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are one and the same! YOu will find Matthew used heaven almost exclusively for he wrote to Jews and God would have been a stumbling block. Also you need to understand if it is talking about teh people or the time or the heart attitudes found in the kingdom.

 

[nolidad]

--------------------------------
Kingdom of Wheat and Tares
---------------------------------

(1) The "Kingdom of Heaven" is an earthly Kingdom

(2) The sower of good seed represents the Lord Jesus Christ

(3) The sower of bad seed represents Satan, the King of Babylon

(4) The "Word of the Kingdom" (the seed) is the Gospel
of the New Testament

(5) The "field" represents the world, as the Gospel goes forth
to both Jew and Gentile

(6) The "fruit" of the field (both wheat and tares) represents
the (3rd) "Kingdom of Heaven"

(7) The "Word of the Kingdom" gathers good fish and bad fish
during the (3rd) Christian Kingdom

(8) The (saved) "wheat" and the (unsaved) "tares" LOOK similar,
and grow together until the end-of-the-age

(9) At the end-of-the-age, the "wheat and tares" (good fish/bad fish) are separated in the "Final Harvest"

--------------------------


.

You are correct in that teh kingdom of heaven is eartly- it is the millenial kingdom Jesus establishes after His return.

Tares produce no fruit- they are barren of good fruit.

This 3rd and 4th kingdom, I have no idea what this is.

 

[nolidad]

Keep in mind first that it is speaking of a kingdom.Not the world.
Second is to fiqure out which kingdom upon earth the scripture is speaking of.
Nebuchadnezar should know what kingdom it is.
Daniel 2:41 And just as you saw that the feet and toes were made partly of fired clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom, yet some of the strength of iron will be in it--just as you saw the iron mixed with clay.

It is speaking of a person. the term kingdom (malkaw) can be either king or kingdom- context determinies which.

Nebuchadnezzar would not know the identity of the fourth kingdom nor any of the rulers- he died long before the fourth beast began to reing and has continued to reign since.

 

[nolidad]

Then explain this:

Will you PRETEND this passage is talking about heaven?
Do you really think there are unsaved "tares" in heaven?
Really"

Or will you just REJECT the Words of Christ in order to
protect your current "gospel"?

Remember, you are KNOWN by your "fruit"

Mat 13:24-30
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed
good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came
and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But
when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then
appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder
came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed
in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them,
An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou
then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while
ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time
of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together
first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them:
but gather the wheat into my barn.


.

You are inconsistent in your usage of terms ! tares are unsaved always.

I do not know what you think my gospel is, but I can say with great confidence what you think is based on you making assumptions without all the facts. Maybe you should ask questions of me so I can figure out what you are trying to get at and quit the anger mode.

 

[jgr]

God does not force any one to believe what they believe.

You asked if Satan was worth discussing. Where do you see Satan in the 144,000?

 

[shilohsfoal]

It is speaking of a person. the term kingdom (malkaw) can be either king or kingdom- context determinies which.

Nebuchadnezzar would not know the identity of the fourth kingdom nor any of the rulers- he died long before the fourth beast began to reing and has continued to reign since.

So you believe a king will be devided into ten parts?
That's just nasty.

PS, it's Nebuchanezars kingdom that is devided. Yes he would know his kingdom quite well.

 

[nolidad]

So you believe a king will be devided into ten parts?
That's just nasty.

PS, it's Nebuchanezars kingdom that is devided. Yes he would know his kingdom quite well.

Once again context givers the definition of the word, whether it means the kingdom, or the king!

The ten horns are tewn kings- not one king divided into ten parts. That is what the Word of God says.

Nebuchadnezzars kingdom was not divided but overthrown ! Romes kingdom was divided in 285 Ad with Rome and Constantinople as the capitols!

Babylon has not arisen again as a great city (it will).

But Mystery Babylon, the mother of all harlots (false religious systems) has been alive and well since Nimrod!

 

[shilohsfoal]

Once again context givers the definition of the word, whether it means the kingdom, or the king!

The ten horns are tewn kings- not one king divided into ten parts. That is what the Word of God says.

Nebuchadnezzars kingdom was not divided but overthrown ! Romes kingdom was divided in 285 Ad with Rome and Constantinople as the capitols!

Babylon has not arisen again as a great city (it will).

But Mystery Babylon, the mother of all harlots (false religious systems) has been alive and well since Nimrod!

You havnt taken a look at Nebuchadnezars kingdom lately I see.

 

[Timtofly]

You asked if Satan was worth discussing. Where do you see Satan in the 144,000?

I think you asked, "144,00-only Jewish-only celibate-only men-only worth discussing?"

As opposed to any conversation about Satan.

If having a conversation about the 144K is not important. I would assume one about Satan is not important either.

 

[jgr]

I think you asked, "144,00-only Jewish-only celibate-only men-only worth discussing?"

As opposed to any conversation about Satan.

If having a conversation about the 144K is not important. I would assume one about Satan is not important either.

I think a conversation about the Scriptural identity of the 144,000 is important.

So I presented a Scriptural perspective that extols and glorifies Christ and His Church, and included numerous supporting Scriptures.

Does your perspective do the same?

 

[Ronit]

That may be, individual believers who are part of THE ISRAEL OF GOD.

But the State of Israel, worthy of our support because they are a fellow democracy, is of man, still dry bones.

I don't see where anything has changed since Paul wrote they were enemies of the gospel, though respected because of the fathers.
I am not one who looks for a God-inspired Gogging and Magogging comin' round the mountain.

As far as this outfit that was deemed illegal by Israel - it was said they misrepresented their intentions originally, that they were granted a chance to broadcast under certain understandings, but that proselytizing Israelis to become Christians was considered by Israel to be pulling a fast one.

So some say "blue meanie Israel forbids Christians to broadcast!" - and some could say "blue meanie Christians fudged intentions from the get-go".

So I say the enigma of "enemies BUT" continues unchanged by how Paul described it in the Bible.

There are Problems in Israel when it comes to Christianity-And It's NOT right. I don't agree at all with the way Hebrew Christians are treated. It's horrific!
So we need to pray for the protection of our believing brothers and sisters there and to pray God would open the eyes of the blind. And to bring some kind of equality and justice there.

 

[Timtofly]

I think a conversation about the Scriptural identity of the 144,000 is important.

So I presented a Scriptural perspective that extols and glorifies Christ and His Church, and included numerous supporting Scriptures.

Does your perspective do the same?

I never had an issue with your spiritual application. They are literal Jewish males. They are not the pre rapture church during the actual tribulation. They are the church and disciples of the Lamb in the Trumpets. You took a literal fact and symbolized it in a spiritual truth. Does not change the fact they are still literal human beings. They are the Lamb's disciples as much as you are.

 

[jgr]

I never had an issue with your spiritual application. They are literal Jewish males. They are not the pre rapture church during the actual tribulation. They are the church and disciples of the Lamb in the Trumpets. You took a literal fact and symbolized it in a spiritual truth. Does not change the fact they are still literal human beings. They are the Lamb's disciples as much as you are.

The Church is comprised of a vastly greater multitude of literal human beings.

Are the literal Jewish males a part of that Church?

 

[keras]

The Church is comprised of a vastly greater multitude of literal human beings.

Are the literal Jewish males a part of that Church?

The 144k are not all Jews. Only 2 of the 12 tribes are Jewish.
The other 10 are the Western peoples, now the majority of the Christians.
John sees them all in Jerusalem, Revelation 7:9 and Jesus selects the 144k out of them in Revelation 14:1-5
They go out to proclaim the coming Kingdom. Rev 14:6-7, Isaiah 66:19

 

[shilohsfoal]

Once again context givers the definition of the word, whether it means the kingdom, or the king!

The ten horns are tewn kings- not one king divided into ten parts. That is what the Word of God says.

Nebuchadnezzars kingdom was not divided but overthrown ! Romes kingdom was divided in 285 Ad with Rome and Constantinople as the capitols!

Babylon has not arisen again as a great city (it will).

But Mystery Babylon, the mother of all harlots (false religious systems) has been alive and well since Nimrod!

The little horn can kill millions in minuts.
Israel's Missile Force Could Easily Kill Millions of People in Minutes

 

[nolidad]

You havnt taken a look at Nebuchadnezars kingdom lately I see.

Well his was teh first of four gentile kingdoms. Israel is not Babylon! As you have alleged prior. Part of teh fourth beast relies on the power of Nebuchadnezzar in his day but no the fourth beast is not Babylon.

Babylon the great is a religious system established long before Nebuchadnezzar and the rebuilt city of Babylon right now has 6,000,000 bricks from the original Babylon.