490 years Daniel 9 - my chart

[honey badger]

Daniels 70 week prophecy of which Jesus fulfilled, as he did all the prophecies in himself

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Daniel 9:24

and the fulfillment thereof

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Hebrews 9:12

 

[DavidPT]

Nobody needs your amount of footwork to understand taht the passage is about one prince, Jesus, and the "people that shall come" sent by Titus.

If you want to try and reason some of these things in an illogical manner, then have at it. But as to me, I'll stick to trying to reason things in a logical manner. There is nothing logical about, if Christ is meant in verse 27, and that the entire verse involves the 70th week from start to finish, and that this part---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate---is meaning some 40 years later, that this indicates there are no gaps in the 70 weeks, then. I think that's called a contradiction. But maybe some people think things can be contradictory and still be the truth? But I'm not one of them that thinks this myself, but only meaning when it's obvious a contradiction is involved. Sometimes what might appear to be contradictory really isn't. But this clearly isn't the case here, though.

 

[TribulationSigns]

First person plural = prsesant audiance.

Matthew 24:15-16

• "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
• Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"

2nd Timothy 2:15

• "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

...it's not just a line, it's the Only way of rightly dividing or proportioning the word of God correctly! Jerusalem is spiritual, the woman. Judaea is spiritually the holy place of God's people. The corporate assembly. It is for someone who readeth and understand what CHrist is actually talking about! It is not a physical Jerusalem building we thought Christ talked about where many people mistakenly for going after Jospheus for interpretation.

When "you" see abominations stand in the Church (right prior to Second Coming). You see, that is the Holy Place in the New Testament dispensation. The Only Holy Place where abomination can stand that the elect can flee from. Remember the Old Testament Congregation ALREADY fell along with the death of Christ. The physical temple in 70AD was NOT even holy to begin with before being physically destroyed by Romans. Spiritually, the Old Testament congregation as the stones of the building fell that was what Christ referred to correct disciples.

Matthew 24:1-2 KJV
[1] And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
[2] And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

He was talking about the fall of Old Testament Congregation before giving prophecies concerning the New Testament Congregation where Christians will be the ones see the signs of Christ's return, not the presence audience. They did not lived to see Christ's return.

Now, will someone going to tell me the the "church" is not the wording there, so I should not exegete that way? The Biblical fact is, one could never even begin to understand what is the Holy Place God was talking about without doing a thorough search of the whole Bible, exegeting carefully to come to the correct conclusion.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The Israel Today News.
YouTube

A man-made video is not proof. Please stick with the Word of God.

What part of verse do you not understand?

Matthew 21:42-43 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

What congregation of Israel is this Kingdom of God now represents since the Cross that brings fruits (people saved by Gospel)? National Israel does not qualify!

 

[Douggg]

A man-made video is not proof. Please stick with the Word of God.

What part of verse do you not understand?

Matthew 21:42-43 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

What congregation of Israel this Kingdom of God now represents since the Cross?

The nation that will bring forth fruits is the current nation of Israel, when they become Christians in the middle of the seven years.

You are in denial. Israel today news.
Israel Today News

 

[TribulationSigns]

Daniels 70 week prophecy of which Jesus fulfilled, as he did all the prophecies in himself

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Daniel 9:24

and the fulfillment thereof

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Hebrews 9:12

Right, who are "us" in verse 12? Daniel's people, including us? Right?

 

[DavidPT]

Nobody needs your amount of footwork to understand taht the passage is about one prince, Jesus, and the "people that shall come" sent by Titus.

I don't think you are even grasping what I'm arguing. Even if your position is correct, your position is impossible unless there is a gap in the 70th week. But aren't some of you arguing that there are no gaps in the 70 weeks whatsoever? But if there can be a gap per your interpretation, why can't there be a gap per someone else's interpretation? A gap is still a gap, regardless when and the length of it.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The nation that will bring forth fruits is the current nation of Israel, when they become Christians in the middle of the seven years.

Obviously you did not read Scripture well. Let start over.

Matthew 21:42-43 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

It is the builders of the old testament congregation who have rejected and put Christ to death, right? How? Now Consider wisely:

John 2:18-21 KJV
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

See, it was the builders, the "people of the prince" that come and destroy temple, Daniel 9:26. And pay attention to this, in THREE DAYS, Christ rise it up along with his resurrection. His body NOW represents the new Testament congregation where Christians, as bulders, of that temple! This is the holy nation that Christ gave the kingdom of God to! Speaking to Church, Peter wrote:

1 Peter 2:9 KJV
[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

This is holy nation, the New Testament Congregation, that Christ rebuilt with Christians therein! Just like Jews were with their old testament congregation. BOTH represented the temple of the body of Christ! The first one was destroyed by Old Testament builders. The second one was rebuilt with New Testament builders. yet one and same Congregation of Israel because it is Christ's body! This is how Christ has removed the kingdom representatives from old to the new. The Jews in the New Testament will have gospel to become saved. That is why Christ said blindness in PART is happening to Israel (Jews) because there are few who will be saved by hearing the Gospel during the New Testament. This is why we have a great commission to bring fruits to Christ's church! Not nation Israel fantasy of yours! There will be no "national salvation" for the Jews in the end like you believe! Sorry!

Listen, Christ said the temple rebuild in three days. This is was the rebuilt temple Christ gave His Kingdom representative to! Not to the Jewish nation some two thousand years later! Modern Israel does not qualify! She did not exist three days after the death of Christ. Please stick with Gospel, not Youtube, Jack Van Impe or Josephus!

 

[solid_core]

I don't think you are even grasping what I'm arguing. Even if your position is correct, your position is impossible unless there is a gap in the 70th week. But aren't some of you arguing that there are no gaps in the 70 weeks whatsoever? But if there can be a gap per your interpretation, why can't there be a gap per someone else's interpretation? A gap is still a gap, regardless when and the length of it.

Some gaps are simply artificial and not needed.

Because everything Daniel predicted happened in the first century, there is no 2,000 years gap pushning the fulfillment to the future.

We can debate if there was a gap of 40 years or not, but its generally quite irrelevant. What matters is - is Daniel fulfilled or not? If somebody says "not", he must defend why, because everything Daniel predicted happened in the first century.

 

[pc_home]

- Douggg, How are you sure „weeks seventy“ is a 490 years?

 

[Douggg]

Obviously you did not read Scripture well. Let start over.

Matthew 21:42-43 KJV
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

It is the builders of the old testament congregation who have rejected and put Christ to death, right? How? Now Consider wisely:

John 2:18-21 KJV
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

See, it was the builders, the "people of the prince" that come and destroy temple, Daniel 9:26. And pay attention to this, in THREE DAYS, Christ rise it up along with his resurrection. His body NOW represents the new Testament congregation where Christians, as bulders, of that temple! This is the holy nation that Christ gave the kingdom of God to! Speaking to Church, Peter wrote:

1 Peter 2:9 KJV
[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

This is holy nation, the New Testament Congregation, that Christ rebuilt with Christians therein! Just like Jews were with their old testament congregation. BOTH represented the temple of the body of Christ! The first one was destroyed by Old Testament builders. The second one was rebuilt with New Testament builders. yet one and same Congregation of Israel because it is Christ's body! This is how Christ has removed the kingdom representatives from old to the new. The Jews in the New Testament will have gospel to become saved. That is why Christ said blindness in PART is happening to Israel (Jews) because there are few who will be saved by hearing the Gospel during the New Testament. This is why we have a great commission to bring fruits to Christ's church! Not nation Israel fantasy of yours! There will be no "national salvation" for the Jews in the end like you believe! Sorry!

Listen, Christ said the temple rebuild in three days. This is was the rebuilt temple Christ gave His Kingdom representative to! Not to the Jewish nation some two thousand years later! Modern Israel does not qualify! She did not exist three days after the death of Christ. Please stick with Gospel, not Youtube, Jack Van Impe or Josephus!

You are in denial.

Following the Gog/Magog event....

Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

 

[solid_core]

You are in denial.

Following the Gog/Magog event....

Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

How do you know this is about our future, not just about Ezechiel's future, but our past?

You surely know that the temple was built after this prophecy, Israel returned to its land from Babylonia etc. Why do you push it to our future, again?

Remember, Jesus does not mention Ezechiel as a future for His disciples, He only mentions Daniel to be fulfilled.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The nation that will bring forth fruits is the current nation of Israel, when they become Christians in the middle of the seven years.

Says who? You or God? As I show with Scripture, the modern nation of Israel does not qualify because she was not existed three days after the death of Christ per his prophecy, in order to give His kingdom representative to. You remained refuted.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You are in denial.

Says a blind man.

Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

Humm...you forgot one important thing here, there are much Scripture that declared that Christians are God's people, Israel too... in Christ. Are you saying that Christians do not know His Holy Name because they are not "ethnically" His people, Israel? You are definitely blind to Gospel Truth.

 

[grafted branch]

View attachment 279656
You can right click on the chart and choose view image to get a larger view.

Douggg, I think the biggest problem with your chart is that people who are alive in the final 7 year period will be able to figure out when Jesus returns.

Matthew 24:36 prevents anyone from knowing the day or hour. Your chart can’t be correct.

 

[Douggg]

- Douggg, How are you sure „weeks seventy“ is a 490 years?

7 groups of 7 period of time.
62 groups of 7 groups of time.

The Jews went by a lunar observation time of the new moon for each month. This resurrection in some months being 29 days and others 30 days.

Their years were made up 12 months (of 29 days and 30 days).

So there accumulated an disparity because the earth orbits the sun more than the 360 days thereabouts of the 12 month. To get back in sync with the suns, the Jews added an extra month every 2 to 3 years. So that some year has 13 months in them, and not just 12.

So some of the years in the 483 years, has an extra month. But across the 483 years as unit, the 483 years is still 483 years, as the correction had been built into some of the years.
__________________________________________________

but that not what you asked, I don't think. The weeks 70 is 490 years because in hindsight the command to rebuild Jerusalem and the wall is generally known, as is the time between Jesus's crucifixion and Artaxeres command - to warrant the 69 groups of seven to be 69 x 7 years - 483 years. Plus, the one group of seven added to it would be 490 years.

 

[honey badger]

Right, who are "us" in verse 12? Daniel's people, including us? Right?

yes that is right

 

[Douggg]

Says a blind man.

I have a chart and you don't. I have three charts, and you don't have any.

The 490 years Daniel prophecy chart
The Olivet discourse chart
The 7 year 70th week chart.

Humm...you forgot one important thing here, there are much Scripture that declared that Christians are God's people, Israel too... in Christ. Are you saying that Christians do not know His Holy Name because they are not "ethnically" His people, Israel? You are definitely blind to Gospel Truth.

Who are them in Ezekiel 39:7, God calls my people Israel, following Gog/Magog ?

Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

 

[DavidPT]

Douggg, I think the biggest problem with your chart is that people who are alive in the final 7 year period will be able to figure out when Jesus returns.

Matthew 24:36 prevents anyone from knowing the day or hour. Your chart can’t be correct.

That might be true if these events involved are literally fulfilled as written, such as a literal temple in Jerusalem, where a literal person sits in it proclaiming to be God. But if these things are meaning in some other sense, in the meantime while some are still awaiting for a temple to get built in order to fulfill these things, maybe these things have already been coming to pass right under their noses the entire time, in a different sense altogether. We have to keep in mind, 2 Thessalonians 2 indicates God shall send strong delusion so that one will be believe a lie. Who would need to be deluded, though? Someone already deluded? Or someone not already deluded? I think that perhaps the falling away mentioned in that chapter might help answer that.

 

[TribulationSigns]

yes that is right

Good, this proves that Douggg's interpretation of Daniel 9:24 is incorrect.