LDS Brigham Young and His Blood Atonement

Jamesone5

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2019
1,758
318
Basin
✟97,413.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It is based on the testimony that JS saw God and Jesus Christ and they told him that he would be a prophet in this time and Jesus Christ would work with him to restore the true church of Jesus Christ to the earth again.

So now there is a church again with the name of Jesus Christ that has apostles and prophets and pastors and teachers and evangelists, and bishops, and priests, and deacons, and elders, and seventy.

The same organization that Jesus Christ set up through Peter, the person he gave the keys of the kingdom in the Church of Jesus Christ of First-century Saints.

So Jesus Christ was the head of the Church of Jesus Christ of First-century Saints and Peter was his main prophet with the keys to grow the church.

Jesus Christ is the head of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today and JS is him main prophet with the keys to grow the church, which he has done and now includes some 17,000,000 people and growing with temples now to be in Muslim countries and China.

IOW, the same pattern for church leadership was set up by Jesus in the first century and now in the 21st century.

What organization does your church have? Does it look anything like the first century church which is confirmed in the bible?

The integrity of our organization can be compared with the first century church and compares very well.
No you have a tiny bit of faith in this but you hardly know it to be true, despite the claims in your testimony.

It is based on the testimony that JS saw God and Jesus Christ and they told him that he would be a prophet in this time and Jesus Christ would work with him to restore the true church of Jesus Christ to the earth again.----Peter1000

You think I haven't been where you are, when I was a decieved Mormon?
 
Upvote 0

Jamesone5

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2019
1,758
318
Basin
✟97,413.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I say flesh and bone and spirit because it is pure spirit that will take the place of blood in a resurrected body.

So the resurrected body will be made of a much higher order of flesh and bone and spirit. All 3 elements united eternally in a immortal, perfect, indestructible body, that have qualities that we know not of, mobility that we know not of, etc.,
etc., etc.

Seriously this is not confusing, it is resurrection 101, meaning you learn this in the very first class you would take on your way to 30 other classes to get your doctorate in resurrection engineering.


Where does God say in the Bible that we need to get a doctorate in resurrection engineering?

I say flesh and bone and spirit because it is pure spirit that will take the place of blood in a resurrected body. --Peter1000


Oh, really? this verse definitely differs

Luke 24:39

39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for A SPIRIT hath not flesh and bones, as ye behold me having.

I will definitely take Christ's Word on this.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Keep on proving to me that you ignore this verse:

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 13:5)

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


I did test myself and came through with flying colors because I believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible.
 
Upvote 0

Jamesone5

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2019
1,758
318
Basin
✟97,413.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 13:5)

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


I did test myself and came through with flying colors because I believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

The Jesus Christ of Joseph Smith ------ not the Christ of the Bible.

There is your problem that you do not admit to.
 
Upvote 0

Jamesone5

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2019
1,758
318
Basin
✟97,413.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I follow the real Jesus Christ of the Bible, NOT the Jesus Christ of the man made Nicene Creed. He does NOT exist.


Still is Joseph Smith's [ a mans' ] depiction of Christ, no matter how you look at it.

Why do you think we disagree on so much?
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Still is Joseph Smith's [ a mans' ] depiction of Christ, no matter how you look at it.

Why do you think we disagree on so much?
We disagree because Jesus Christ said He is one with the Father in glory and perfection, not substance and essence. I agree with Him but you don't. I also agree with Him when He said that He has an immortal body of flesh and bones, but you don't. I also believe in history that Joseph and Hyrum were not the only ones in the jail cell at Carthage when they were shot and killed, but you don't. I can verify what I believe.
 
Upvote 0

Jamesone5

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2019
1,758
318
Basin
✟97,413.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
We disagree because Jesus Christ said He is one with the Father in glory and perfection, not substance and essence. I agree with Him but you don't. I also agree with Him when He said that He has an immortal body of flesh and bones, but you don't. I also believe in history that Joseph and Hyrum were not the only ones in the jail cell at Carthage when they were shot and killed, but you don't. I can verify what I believe.

You simply agree with JS says about Christ and God and your church's depiction of what happened in that jail.

Why are Mormons so weak-willed that they need their false prophet to tell them about God? Is it because JS also told them they can become gods themselves if they agree with all he handed down?

I really answered both of those questions myself when I left the Mormon Church.
I had this false pride of being in the supposed ONLY true Church, but then like a lost sheep I thought I needed JS to tell me about God, so I could supposedly go on to be a god myself.

Real character is to be able to deny all that and follow ONLY Christ and of course Trust Him. And the character comes from God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Marital Status
Married
You simply agree with JS says about Christ and God and your church's depiction of what happened in that jail.

Why are Mormons so weak-willed that they need their false prophet to tell them about God? Is it because JS also told them they can become gods themselves if they agree with all he handed down?

I really answered both of those questions myself when I left the Mormon Church.
I had this false pride of being in the supposed ONLY true Church, but then like a lost sheep I thought I needed JS to tell me about God, so I could supposedly go on to be a god myself.

Real character is to be able to deny all that and follow ONLY Christ and of course Trust Him. And the character comes from God.
I agree with truth and truth will always prevail.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
And the Bible say this:

Mark 12:30
And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment.

And this:

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”


The question is "why would I need your false BoM to tell me what I already realize from just the Bible?" And why would I also need the BoM when it neglects the promise of God manifesting Himself to us?

You have read in the scriptures that in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses every word shall be established. It is a true saying of Jesus.

By the mouth of the Jews ( who were of the House of Judah in the House of Israel) in Jerusalem, Jesus was brought to the world and proclaimed that he is the Son of God and is the Savior of the world, and through his atoning sacrifice he has saved all mankind from their sins.

By the mouth of the Nephites (who were of the House of Joseph, also in the House of Israel) Jesus was confirmed to have lived because they saw him and bear testimony that he is the Son of God and came to them and taught them his gospel, healed their sick, blessed their children, set up his church in the Americas, and told them that he had atoned for their sins and was their Savior and Advocate with the Father, and then returned to his Father in heaven. Before he left, he promised he would return a second time in the future.

Same gospel from 2 different peoples thousands of miles apart. 2 or 3 witnesses proclaim that Jesus is real and alive and saved us from out sins by his atoning sacrifice.

It is exciting to know that these 2 peoples did not communicate with each other, but they have the same story about Jesus being the Son of God and being their Savior. They both confess touching his hands and feet and side and knowing that he gave his life for them.

Muslims who don't believe the Bible have to scratch their heads because now there is a second witness of Jesus Christ coming from the Americas in the BOM, and not part of the Bible. How can that be they ask? So the BOM is converting even Muslims to Jesus Christ. We now have our first temple in Dubai, a Muslim city, and they ask us to come and build our temple there. How wonderful is it?
Do they not know that we are a Christian church? Well, of course they do, for the name kind of gives it away. But they are coming to us to come build our temple to Jesus Christ in their land.

It is because of 2 ancient witnesses to Jesus Christ, the Bible and the BOM. And there will be a 3rd witness, from the lost 10 tribes that will tell us more of Jesus and that they too saw him and he taught them the same gospel that he taught the Jews, and the Nephites. What a future there is in store for us that believe in Jesus Christ.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: He is the way
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
You simply agree with JS says about Christ and God and your church's depiction of what happened in that jail.

Why are Mormons so weak-willed that they need their false prophet to tell them about God? Is it because JS also told them they can become gods themselves if they agree with all he handed down?

I really answered both of those questions myself when I left the Mormon Church.
I had this false pride of being in the supposed ONLY true Church, but then like a lost sheep I thought I needed JS to tell me about God, so I could supposedly go on to be a god myself.

Real character is to be able to deny all that and follow ONLY Christ and of course Trust Him. And the character comes from God.

That is where you went wrong. We follow Jesus Christ. We listen to what his prophets tells us, which include all the Bible writers, and JS, but we follow Jesus Christ, and we trust Jesus Christ, only.

Just like you do. You read the words of all the Bible writers, but you follow Jesus Christ, and you trust Jesus Christ only.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: He is the way
Upvote 0

Jamesone5

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2019
1,758
318
Basin
✟97,413.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You have read in the scriptures that in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses every word shall be established. It is a true saying of Jesus.

By the mouth of the Jews ( who were of the House of Judah in the House of Israel) in Jerusalem, Jesus was brought to the world and proclaimed that he is the Son of God and is the Savior of the world, and through his atoning sacrifice he has saved all mankind from their sins.

By the mouth of the Nephites (who were of the House of Joseph, also in the House of Israel) Jesus was confirmed to have lived because they saw him and bear testimony that he is the Son of God and came to them and taught them his gospel, healed their sick, blessed their children, set up his church in the Americas, and told them that he had atoned for their sins and was their Savior and Advocate with the Father, and then returned to his Father in heaven. Before he left, he promised he would return a second time in the future.

Same gospel from 2 different peoples thousands of miles apart. 2 or 3 witnesses proclaim that Jesus is real and alive and saved us from out sins by his atoning sacrifice.

It is exciting to know that these 2 peoples did not communicate with each other, but they have the same story about Jesus being the Son of God and being their Savior. They both confess touching his hands and feet and side and knowing that he gave his life for them.

Muslims who don't believe the Bible have to scratch their heads because now there is a second witness of Jesus Christ coming from the Americas in the BOM, and not part of the Bible. How can that be they ask? So the BOM is converting even Muslims to Jesus Christ. We now have our first temple in Dubai, a Muslim city, and they ask us to come and build our temple there. How wonderful is it?
Do they not know that we are a Christian church? Well, of course they do, for the name kind of gives it away. But they are coming to us to come build our temple to Jesus Christ in their land.

It is because of 2 ancient witnesses to Jesus Christ, the Bible and the BOM. And there will be a 3rd witness, from the lost 10 tribes that will tell us more of Jesus and that they too saw him and he taught them the same gospel that he taught the Jews, and the Nephites. What a future there is in store for us that believe in Jesus Christ.
blah, blah, blah

Why would we supposedly need a second witness of Jesus Christ when we have the Only and the ONE witness with the Bible?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jamesone5

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2019
1,758
318
Basin
✟97,413.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
That is where you went wrong. We follow Jesus Christ. We listen to what his prophets tells us, which include all the Bible writers, and JS, but we follow Jesus Christ, and we trust Jesus Christ, only.

Just like you do. You read the words of all the Bible writers, but you follow Jesus Christ, and you trust Jesus Christ only.

You speak words but you really do not mean them.
The prophets you say you have also include Joseph Smith--a false prophet.

The Bible writers AND JS?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jamesone5

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2019
1,758
318
Basin
✟97,413.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You have read in the scriptures that in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses every word shall be established. It is a true saying of Jesus.

By the mouth of the Jews ( who were of the House of Judah in the House of Israel) in Jerusalem, Jesus was brought to the world and proclaimed that he is the Son of God and is the Savior of the world, and through his atoning sacrifice he has saved all mankind from their sins.

By the mouth of the Nephites (who were of the House of Joseph, also in the House of Israel) Jesus was confirmed to have lived because they saw him and bear testimony that he is the Son of God and came to them and taught them his gospel, healed their sick, blessed their children, set up his church in the Americas, and told them that he had atoned for their sins and was their Savior and Advocate with the Father, and then returned to his Father in heaven. Before he left, he promised he would return a second time in the future.

Same gospel from 2 different peoples thousands of miles apart. 2 or 3 witnesses proclaim that Jesus is real and alive and saved us from out sins by his atoning sacrifice.

It is exciting to know that these 2 peoples did not communicate with each other, but they have the same story about Jesus being the Son of God and being their Savior. They both confess touching his hands and feet and side and knowing that he gave his life for them.

Muslims who don't believe the Bible have to scratch their heads because now there is a second witness of Jesus Christ coming from the Americas in the BOM, and not part of the Bible. How can that be they ask? So the BOM is converting even Muslims to Jesus Christ. We now have our first temple in Dubai, a Muslim city, and they ask us to come and build our temple there. How wonderful is it?
Do they not know that we are a Christian church? Well, of course they do, for the name kind of gives it away. But they are coming to us to come build our temple to Jesus Christ in their land.

It is because of 2 ancient witnesses to Jesus Christ, the Bible and the BOM. And there will be a 3rd witness, from the lost 10 tribes that will tell us more of Jesus and that they too saw him and he taught them the same gospel that he taught the Jews, and the Nephites. What a future there is in store for us that believe in Jesus Christ.
Uh, I can add that 2 or 3 or thousand witnesses proclaim the Mormon Church is false.

And why would we need two witnesses of Christ when we have ONE with the Bible?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Around 25 years ago, my local County Library had a section devoted to Mormon Journal of Discourses--mainly from sermons of Brigham Young. Then, before resigning my membership in the Mormon Church, I felt I had to really delve deep into what my former Mormon church taught and them pit that information against the Bible and my new-found Faith in what I found to be God's Only Word.

I had heard about the Blood Atonement practice and although the Mormon Church mostly tries to minimize it---it was very much a practice in the late 1800's. And, it still is somewhat practiced today as Ted Bundy and Gary Gilmore, of course chose the firing squad for their methods of execution. It is the only State that gives one that option-btw.

As I had heard from my Mormon mother that if I had lived back in the 1860's, that I might have suffered the Blood Atonement for leaving. So, God led me to investigate as Mormons do not look kindly on someone who becomes, what they refer to as an "apostate Mormon".

What I found back then and what I researched lately is basically the same. There is a reference to spilling of the blood of an apostate in the link below.

www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech20.htm

Although the control factor of Mormons is a lot less now, and if you live in a predominantly Mormon area, like I do, you will suffer a lot of what is referred to as "shunning". That shunning has gotten way less over the years. I was blessedly asked to give the Eulogy at my Mormon mother's funeral after assuring the Bishop that I would not speak on anything that could be construed as doctrinally controversial. I spoke from the Bible, of course. Interesting twist on that, is that God allowed me to be a part on my own mother's finding the True Christ about a week before she passed on after 91 years of being a Mormon.

I no longer get Mormon missionaries at my house as they must have realized it would be futile to try to bring me back. Had a few encounters over the years where the missionaries left frustrated. A lot of Mormons locally that I call friends will talk to me on the street and I generally initiate a conversation. Sometimes that friendliness and love will do more than debating the Bible.
You said: "As I had heard from my Mormon mother that if I had lived back in the 1860's, that I might have suffered the Blood Atonement for leaving."

The blood atonement was not for those leaving the church, it was for cold blooded murderers. She may have said that to try to stop you from leaving or perhaps she didn't understand the meaning of blood atonement. Jesus atoned for us with His blood and He expects us to be willing to do the same for Him. Many people have indeed given their lives for Jesus.

(New Testament | John 15:12 - 14)

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

You said: "Had a few encounters over the years where the missionaries left frustrated."

Being on here I can understand that because you will defend your position at all odds, even when the evidence against you is insurmountable.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jamesone5

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2019
1,758
318
Basin
✟97,413.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You said: "As I had heard from my Mormon mother that if I had lived back in the 1860's, that I might have suffered the Blood Atonement for leaving."

The blood atonement was not for those leaving the church, it was for cold blooded murderers. She may have said that to try to stop you from leaving or perhaps she didn't understand the meaning of blood atonement. Jesus atoned for us with His blood and He expects us to be willing to do the same for Him. Many people have indeed given their lives for Jesus.

(New Testament | John 15:12 - 14)

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

You said: "Had a few encounters over the years where the missionaries left frustrated."

Being on here I can understand that because you will defend your position at all odds, even when the evidence against you is insurmountable.

You are in a cult and people in cults think their evidence is insurmountable.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Marital Status
Married
You are in a cult and people in cults think their evidence is insurmountable.
You too are in a cult:

cult
/kəlt/
Learn to pronounce

noun
  1. a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
    "the cult of St. Olaf"
    • a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
 
Upvote 0

Jamesone5

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2019
1,758
318
Basin
✟97,413.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You too are in a cult:

cult
/kəlt/
Learn to pronounce

noun
  1. a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
    "the cult of St. Olaf"
    • a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
A cult of Christ?

Whatever.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
No you have a tiny bit of faith in this but you hardly know it to be true, despite the claims in your testimony.

It is based on the testimony that JS saw God and Jesus Christ and they told him that he would be a prophet in this time and Jesus Christ would work with him to restore the true church of Jesus Christ to the earth again.----Peter1000

You think I haven't been where you are, when I was a decieved Mormon?
You heard my testimony, it stands by itself. Supported by the Holy Spirit, I know it to be true.

You were obviously not where I am within the Church of Jesus Christ. Answer a couple of questions and we can know where you were.

What office of priesthood did you hold?
Did you have a temple recommend, and for how long?
Did you fulfill a calling in your ward?
Did you pay a full tithing?
Did you have an assignment to do home-teaching?

Just a few that will help us get a glimpse of your church activity in our church.

If you think that is too much info, answer only those that you are comfortable answering.
 
Upvote 0