LDS Brigham Young and His Blood Atonement

[He is the way]

He is the way said: ↑
He still has His physical immortal body.

Still your claim to defend, not my pretend obligation to disprove.
You have shot nothing more that blanks, so far.

Some lack of understanding here I believe.

 

[Jamesone5]

Some lack of understanding here I believe.

Obviously.

You do not understand that when you make a claim, you have to defend it or back it up some way.

 

[He is the way]

Obviously.

You do not understand that when you make a claim, you have to defend it or back it up some way.

I have backed up my claims, but you seem to believe that a resurrected immortal body of flesh and bones is like a unchanged mortal body with all of the flaws. You also believe that Jesus hid His immortal body. Immortal bodies do NOT die nor did Jesus leave His body behind. Your statements are getting more and more ridiculous and indefensible all the time.

 

[Peter1000]

Let's take this immortal or immortality. Here is a description from the Encyclopedia of the Bible

IMMORTALITY (ἀθανασία, ἀφθαρσία, incorruptibility). In the Scriptures immortality is attributed to God and man and means freedom from decay, dissolution, and death.

Why would we want a body that is subject to decay or dissolution and death--again?


.

You agree by the definition you provided that immortality is freedom from decay etc.

We agree with you on this one. So when our bodies are resurrected, the graves will be open, and we will come forth in immortality and eternal life in a physical, flesh and bone and spirit immortal body, never to decay again. Our corruptible bodies of flesh and bone and spirit will take on incorruption and we will live forever with God and Jesus.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

 

[Peter1000]

Obviously.

You do not understand that when you make a claim, you have to defend it or back it up some way.

How old are you Jamesone5?

 

[He is the way]

How old are you Jamesone5?

He is pretty old, most likely retired. I don't think English is his native language.

 

[Jamesone5]

How old are you Jamesone5?

No answer on defending your claims?

 

[Jamesone5]

He is pretty old, most likely retired. I don't think English is his native language.

Back up your claims? When there is not verse or anywhere in the Bible that tells us that Jesus supposedly has a flesh and bone body now. You have NOT backed up this claim.

He is the way said: ↑
He still has His physical immortal body.


And where or where did I say or claim this?
You also believe that Jesus hid His immortal body----He is the Way



I know enough about English to realize Mormons like to play the assumption game and put words in the mouths of their detractors.

 

[He is the way]

Back up your claims? When there is not verse or anywhere in the Bible that tells us that Jesus supposedly has a flesh and bone body now. You have NOT backed up this claim.

He is the way said: ↑
He still has His physical immortal body.


And where or where did I say or claim this?
You also believe that Jesus hid His immortal body----He is the Way



I know enough about English to realize Mormons like to play the assumption game and put words in the mouths of their detractors.

You said: "When there is not verse or anywhere in the Bible that tells us that Jesus supposedly has a flesh and bone body now. You have NOT backed up this claim.

The Bible states that Jesus was resurrected. The Bible states that the resurrected Jesus has an immortal body of flesh and bones. His body did not die because it is an immortal resurrected body. Our bodies will also be immortal when we are resurrected. We will not die:

(New Testament | John 11:25 - 26)

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

You said: "And where or where did I say or claim this?"
You also believe that Jesus hid His immortal body----He is the Way

In post #189 You first said? "Maybe he just hid it.
Mormons can then put on their tinfoil hats and do a lot of foolish speculation."

Later you changed it to read: "Maybe Mormons think He just hid it.
Mormons can then put on their tinfoil hats and do a lot of foolish speculation."

 

[Jamesone5]

You said: "When there is not verse or anywhere in the Bible that tells us that Jesus supposedly has a flesh and bone body now. You have NOT backed up this claim.

The Bible states that Jesus was resurrected. The Bible states that the resurrected Jesus has an immortal body of flesh and bones. His body did not die because it is an immortal resurrected body. Our bodies will also be immortal when we are resurrected. We will not die:

(New Testament | John 11:25 - 26)

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

You said: "And where or where did I say or claim this?"
You also believe that Jesus hid His immortal body----He is the Way

In post #189 You first said? "Maybe he just hid it.
Mormons can theen put on their tinfoil hats and do a lot of foolish speculation."

Later you changed it to read: "Maybe Mormons think He just hid it.
Mormons can then put on their tinfoil hats and do a lot of foolish speculation."

You first said? "Maybe he just hid it.--He is the Way

And then you pronounced for me :

You also believe that Jesus hid His immortal body----He is the Way

A maybe is not a belief----- or maybe in the Mormon world it is, with all the speculation.

I am very tired of you speaking for me and all I can boldly say is at one point you are going to have to deny the false prophet JS and your supposed one true Church. I say this not for this little tit-for-tat, but in actuality.

There is no maybe about it at all.

 

[He is the way]

You first said? "Maybe he just hid it.--He is the Way

And then you pronounced for me :

You also believe that Jesus hid His immortal body----He is the Way

A maybe is not a belief----- or maybe in the Mormon world it is, with all the speculation.

I am very tired of you speaking for me and all I can boldly say is at one point you are going to have to deny the false prophet JS and your supposed one true Church. I say this not for this little tit-for-tat, but in actuality.

There is no maybe about it at all.

You said: "I can boldly say is at one point you are going to have to deny the false prophet JS and your supposed one true Church."

I still have my integrity. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. God has shown me that. Job's wife told him to curse God. I would indeed be very foolish to deny what I know is true. God gave monumental tasks to Joseph Smith, but he accomplished work that he was given to do.

(Old Testament | Job 2:9)

9 ¶ Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.

 

[Jamesone5]

So, putting both posts together--- you are going to curse God {and die] as Job's wife suggested., when you find out the truth about your false prophet who started your church?

It is you decision by the way as nobody forced you to believe in your false prophet.

 

[Peter1000]

No answer on defending your claims?

I defended them perfectly. and you have shown me scriptures that would indicate that you are right too, except for the "he must have hid it" statement. I'm sure you are having problems finding that verbiage in the bible.

So what do you think? Here we are, 2 grown men reading the bible and we cannot agree whether Jesus has a tangible, physical body today or whether Jesus has just a spirit body today.

Why not?

 

[He is the way]

So, putting both posts together--- you are going to curse God {and die] as Job's wife suggested., when you find out the truth about your false prophet who started your church?

It is you decision by the way as nobody forced you to believe in your false prophet.

You are up to your shenanigans, aren't you? Sadly you probably think God approves.

 

[Peter1000]

Wow, The holy spirit you claim tells you that Jesus has a flesh and bone body, yet no proof in the Bible, except only a claim by JS that He and the Father showed up to him that way. Remember you have to prove in the Bible that it is as you say----your claim not mine, by the way

And this spirit tells you Joseph smith was a true prophet, yet no mention of him in any version of the Bible, except maybe in his JST. This spirit also told you at one time that the BoM was true, yet no proof from the Bible that it is true or that is the way to find truth.

Seems like you are listening to something, but it is not the True Holy Spirit.

You are welcome, but then, I wrote many words here.

Let us read Acts 1:1-11
Acts 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven,

So here is Jesus, who proved in many infallible ways that he was alive. (IOW his flesh and bone and spirit body awoke and came out of the grave and was alive again). We read of these infallible ways in the bible. One is when he appeared to his apostles and showed them his flesh and bone and spirit body (Luke 24:39).

So in verse 4 Jesus is assembled with his apostles in his flesh and bone and spirit body.

From verses 4-8 he gave them instructions in his flesh and bone and spirit body.

Then in verse 9 Jesus is taken up, as they watch him go into heaven.

And verse 11, an angel says, this same Jesus as you see him go into heaven, will so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

IOW, since he went to heaven in a body of flesh and bone and spirit, he will come in like manner his second time in a body of flesh and bone and spirit.

Your challenge is to prove that between verse 8 (at the end of his speaking to the apostles with his physical mouth and giving them final instructions) and verse 9 (when he was taken up into heaven) he somehow got rid of his body of flesh and bone and spirit, and went into heaven in a spirit body, Good luck.

 

[Jamesone5]

Let us read Acts 1:1-11
Acts 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven,

So here is Jesus, who proved in many infallible ways that he was alive. (IOW his flesh and bone and spirit body awoke and came out of the grave and was alive again). We read of these infallible ways in the bible. One is when he appeared to his apostles and showed them his flesh and bone and spirit body (Luke 24:39).

So in verse 4 Jesus is assembled with his apostles in his flesh and bone and spirit body.

From verses 4-8 he gave them instructions in his flesh and bone and spirit body.

Then in verse 9 Jesus is taken up, as they watch him go into heaven.

And verse 11, an angel says, this same Jesus as you see him go into heaven, will so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

IOW, since he went to heaven in a body of flesh and bone and spirit, he will come in like manner his second time in a body of flesh and bone and spirit.

Your challenge is to prove that between verse 8 (at the end of his speaking to the apostles with his physical mouth and giving them final instructions) and verse 9 (when he was taken up into heaven) he somehow got rid of his body of flesh and bone and spirit, and went into heaven in a spirit body, Good luck.

Your answer is right there before you eyes. You submitted Luke 24:39 which is

39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye behold me having.

and submitted this:

IOW, since he went to heaven in a body of flesh and bone and spirit----Peter1000

How could Christ have a flesh and bones and still be a spirit from the very verse you quoted? From this proof, He is either in the [unseen]spirit existence or in a flesh and bone existence. He appeared to them in, of course, the flesh and bone existence ONLY.

This and more statements made by you are wrong just in this post you are submitting:

So in verse 4 Jesus is assembled with his apostles in his flesh and bone and spirit body.---Peter1000

I am learning from you that there is more to this Mormon confusion that originally meets the eye.

 

[Jamesone5]

You are up to your shenanigans, aren't you? Sadly you probably think God approves.

What God approves of is in YOU looking at all the false implications that you dream up in your words. You cannot say "I have integrity" and take what Jobs' wife said afterwards "curse God and die" and still be consistent.

Your integrity should be derived from trusting God like Job eventually proved later in the Book attributed to his life.

 

[He is the way]

What God approves of is in YOU looking at all the false implications that you dream up in your words. You cannot say "I have integrity" and take what Jobs' wife said afterwards "curse God and die" and still be consistent.

Your integrity should be derived from trusting God like Job eventually proved later in the Book attributed to his life.

Integrity is in keeping the commandments of LOVE which God gave us to keep. Job endured hardships and did not turn against God. Some people turn against God if they lose one child, Job lost everything and remained faithful.

 

[Jamesone5]

Integrity is in keeping the commandments of LOVE which God gave us to keep. Job endured hardships and did not turn against God. Some people turn against God if they lose one child, Job lost everything and remained faithful.

I think you havde this integrity thing mixed up. Your integrity is based on Joseph Smith being a prophet of God----- not THE GOD.. Here is what you claimed

I still have my integrity. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God.----He is the Way

And then here you say:

Integrity is in keeping the commandments of LOVE which God gave us to keep.---He is the Way

 

[He is the way]

I think you havde this integrity thing mixed up. Your integrity is based on Joseph Smith being a prophet of God----- not THE GOD.. Here is what you claimed

I still have my integrity. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God.----He is the Way

And then here you say:

Integrity is in keeping the commandments of LOVE which God gave us to keep.---He is the Way

The Book of Mormon teaches us to BELIEVE in Jesus Christ and KEEP His commandments. We know the way to judge:

(Book of Mormon | Moroni 7:4 - 19)

4 And now my brethren, I judge these things of you because of your peaceable walk with the children of men.
5 For I remember the word of God which saith by their works ye shall know them; for if their works be good, then they are good also.
6 For behold, God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good; for if he offereth a gift, or prayeth unto God, except he shall do it with real intent it profiteth him nothing.
7 For behold, it is not counted unto him for righteousness.
8 For behold, if a man being evil giveth a gift, he doeth it grudgingly; wherefore it is counted unto him the same as if he had retained the gift; wherefore he is counted evil before God.
9 And likewise also is it counted evil unto a man, if he shall pray and not with real intent of heart; yea, and it profiteth him nothing, for God receiveth none such.
10 Wherefore, a man being evil cannot do that which is good; neither will he give a good gift.
11 For behold, a bitter fountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter water; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil.
12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.