Savior of the World, or Eternal Failure?

[JacksBratt]

When you pay for something, you have every right to it.
You don't buy two cart loads of groceries and leave with half a bag full.

Christ paid the death penalty for the sins of EVERYONE in the whole world.
Therefore, they are rightfully his, and your foul doctrine CANNOT take them away!

That's just wrong..

The groceries were paid for.. many leave them in the cart and want no part of them..

Jesus paid a price that would cover the entire human race.. Sadly.. only a few will accept it and take it.

 

[JacksBratt]

It is so sad that you and EBY defend your position by philosophical and not biblical arguments.

Nice post.

 

[FineLinen]

If there is no damnation..

Search = "damnation"

Your search has yielded no results.

Please modify your search & try again.

 

[JacksBratt]

Everyone is not all saved, and not all go or make it into heaven.

God Bless!

Agreed

 

[JacksBratt]

That explains the countless billions who haven't?

Yes.. many don't accept it or believe it.. Many don't believe that the messiah has even come. Others don't believe that Christ was much more than a prophet or teacher..

So.. yep.. that explains it.

 

[JacksBratt]

Search = "damnation"

Your search has yielded no results.

Please modify your search & try again.

Search = FineLinen

There is no logic or truth found.

 

[JacksBratt]

It is sad you do not expect the saved to live without end in eternity! Cause as long as the punishment lasts for those who died as unbelievers, that is as long as life lasts for believers!

Matt. 25:45
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

aionios punishment and aionios life!

And both are this:

Speech: Adjective

Case: Accusative

Number: Singular

Gender: Feminine

Sorry, but I cannot allow you to lie about God and His Word!

Thanks for that post.

 

[JacksBratt]

All has been reconciled/made available, but not all are saved...

And people do not go to hell, which the bible says there are some that do, to be saved later on or after that either...

God Bless!

Totally true

 

[JacksBratt]

For other readers who read this post. This person has me on ignore so he can't see my responses and will not respond.
At J.P. Eby's own website, he does not list any qualifications in Greek, so everything he says is nothing but his own unsupported opinion. Let us ask native Greek speaking scholars the meaning of "aionios" and "kolasis."
Greek is now and has always been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who better than the native Greek speaking EOB translators know the correct meaning of, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?”
Note, in the EOB, Paul uses “αιωνιως/aionios” and “αιδιος/aidios” as synonyms, see Rom 1:20 and 1 Tim 1:17, below.

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/tōn aiōnōn] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf​

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone chooses to consult the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.
In 1 Tim 1:17 Paul not only uses "aionios" synonymous with "aidios," in Rom 1:20, but also defines it by pairing it with "immortal," in the same verse.

He has you on ignore... You win... He cannot compete with truth so he blocks it out.

 

[Der Alte]

Not sure what you are implying here.

I posted the scripture which support your comments here,

"Children who are not of an age that they have reached a mental maturity of being able to understand and consciously be responsible for their actions... do not go to hell...
Nor does anyone that never attains a mental ability to be held accountable for their actions and eternal place."​

Romans 4:15 and Romans 5:13

​

 

[JacksBratt]

Two separate ideas.

We deserve heaven as our inheritance. We are God's children, created in his image.
What sort of father corrects his children by putting them in the oven? Unthinkable.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Who's your Daddy?

If your neighbor was torturing people in his basement, would you defend his good character?

Totally unrelated and nonparallel scenario... Not even close.

 

[JacksBratt]

The correction and restoration is not something to gain. It's something to endure.
There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (like a conversion experience - lol)

So.. weeping and gnashing of teeth correct him and restore him? If he endures some wee bit of hell then he's all better?

 

[JacksBratt]

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

How can someone be destroyed and yet saved by fire, unless being destroyed does not mean what you think it means.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Eze 16:55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.

How is it that Sodom is suffering the vengeance of eternal fire, but then is returned to it's former estate?

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

Wow, this verse seems to be saying the complete opposite of what you are asserting. It's actually the righteous who will dwell in the fire, not sinners. I didn't see any mention of serial killers residing in the fire, there.

Like I said.. for those who are the children of God.. they are purified by fire and some will be found with nothing more than their salvation.

Others who are not saved.. don't even make it to this point.

 

[JacksBratt]

I posted the scripture which support your comments here,

"Children who are not of an age that they have reached a mental maturity of being able to understand and consciously be responsible for their actions... do not go to hell...
Nor does anyone that never attains a mental ability to be held accountable for their actions and eternal place."​

Romans 4:15 and Romans 5:13

​

Thought so.. thanks.

 

[martymonster]

Like I said.. for those who are the children of God.. they are purified by fire and some will be found with nothing more than their salvation.

Others who are not saved.. don't even make it to this point.

That last verse that I quoted, literally says the complete opposite of what you are saying. What is you explanation for that?

 

[JacksBratt]

That last verse that I quoted, literally says the complete opposite of what you are saying. What is you explanation for that?

Actually it doesn't.. read it again.

 

[Saint Steven]

If there is no damnation.. what is the whole deal with "believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved"? Or John 3:16?

Why not eat, drink and be merry.. for tomorrow we die and God is too good to leave us in hell forever....

The whole idea of repentance, acceptance of Christ, the Lords supper, missionary work.. "Go into all the world and preach the gospel"...

Your view would make all of us fools....

Hell is still "hell", if you will. And salvation is in the here and now to make even this life better. We are always accused of what you are saying. But that's not what this is about.

Hell, or whatever you want to call it, is corrective and restorative, but still extremely uncomfortable. Fortunately not forever with no hope of escape. Not a place you want to be for any length of time, but needed before you can proceed.

 

[Der Alte]

So.. weeping and gnashing of teeth correct him and restore him? If he endures some wee bit of hell then he's all better?

I have made that argument many times. If God is going to miraculously convert sinners after they have been punished why doesn't He do it here in this life or does He want to let people sin so He can punish them?

 

[Saint Steven]

Here is something that ought to be clear to any intelligent, honest man. A word that is used to mean in one case three days and nights, in another case to mean a man's lifetime, and in still another case to mean a period of about four centuries, surely does not mean unending or eternal, no matter what English word is used to translate it. USAGE DETERMINES MEANING. Another illustration is the Aaronic priesthood. According to the King James version, Aaron and his sons were anointed as priests for ever. It says, "Their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations" (Ex. 40:15). Yet we read in Heb. 7:11-18 that the Aaronic priesthood is CHANGED to that of Melchizedek. "Now if perfection had been attainable by the Levitical priesthood, for under it the people were given the Law, why was it further necessary that there should arise another and different kind of Priest, one after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed after the order of Aaron? For when there is a CHANGE IN THE PRIESTHOOD, there is of necessity an alteration of the law concerning the priesthood as well. For it is obvious that our Lord sprang from the tribe of Judah, and Moses mentioned nothing about priests in connection with that tribe. So, a previous physical regulation and command is CANCELLED because of its weakness and ineffectiveness and uselessness" (Amplified Bible). Amazing, isn't it, that the priesthood which was ordained for ever has been CANCELLED! There would be no contradiction if the statement in Exodus were translated as it should be, "to the age throughout their generations." That is, throughout their generations AS LONG AS THAT AGE LASTED. In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures which Jesus and His disciples used, the Greek word AION was the word used for the Hebrew OLAM. According to Hebrew and Greek usage, therefore, these words mean a period of time, a period of unknown length, the duration of which is determined by the fact or condition or person to which the term is applied.

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

 

[Der Alte]

Here is something that ought to be clear to any intelligent, honest man. A word that is used to mean in one case three days and nights, in another case to mean a man's lifetime, and in still another case to mean a period of about four centuries, surely does not mean unending or eternal, no matter what English word is used to translate it. USAGE DETERMINES MEANING. Another illustration is the Aaronic priesthood. According to the King James version, Aaron and his sons were anointed as priests for ever. It says, "Their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations" (Ex. 40:15). Yet we read in Heb. 7:11-18 that the Aaronic priesthood is CHANGED to that of Melchizedek. "Now if perfection had been attainable by the Levitical priesthood, for under it the people were given the Law, why was it further necessary that there should arise another and different kind of Priest, one after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed after the order of Aaron? For when there is a CHANGE IN THE PRIESTHOOD, there is of necessity an alteration of the law concerning the priesthood as well. For it is obvious that our Lord sprang from the tribe of Judah, and Moses mentioned nothing about priests in connection with that tribe. So, a previous physical regulation and command is CANCELLED because of its weakness and ineffectiveness and uselessness" (Amplified Bible). Amazing, isn't it, that the priesthood which was ordained for ever has been CANCELLED! There would be no contradiction if the statement in Exodus were translated as it should be, "to the age throughout their generations." That is, throughout their generations AS LONG AS THAT AGE LASTED. In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures which Jesus and His disciples used, the Greek word AION was the word used for the Hebrew OLAM. According to Hebrew and Greek usage, therefore, these words mean a period of time, a period of unknown length, the duration of which is determined by the fact or condition or person to which the term is applied.
Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

No scriptural, grammatical or lexical evidence supporting any of the "conclusions" expressed in this agenda motivated writing. The writer of this article has no educational qualifications in Greek. His "conclusions" are his unsupported personal opinions. All of the writers objections can be answered with one word"hyperbole."