Pope drops 'Vicar of Christ' title

[Michie]

I will join you in your optimism.

Scoot over sister!

Trying to keep my cool through all this drama! Lol!

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Scoot over sister!

Trying to keep my cool through all this drama! Lol!

I know right! It is hard to be optimistic in times like these.

 

[Michie]

I know right! It is hard to be optimistic in times like these.

Exactly! It really is! But our God is a merciful God. What is freaking us out He has under control.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Exactly! It really is! But our God is a merciful God. What is freaking us out He has under control.

 

[fhansen]

by Geoffrey Grider April 4, 2020


Archbishop Viganò said it’s as if Pope Francis now views himself as becoming “master of the Church, free to demolish it from within without having to answer to anyone. In short, a tyrant,” he said.
Roman Catholics from deep within the Vatican are sounding the alarm bells today because Pope Francis is once again doing wacky, end times stuff. Today’s story comes from an article on the Catholic site Life Site News from a statement they received from Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò. Viganò is quite alarmed that Pope Francis has dropped the title ‘Vicar of Christ’ in the annual Vatican Yearbook, and instead has listed himself in ‘his own name’ of Jorge Mario Bergoglio. Life Site News and Viganò are rightly alarmed by this breach of long-standing Vatican protocol, but if they knew anything about bible prophecy, they’d really be quaking in their boots. What Pope Francis did is a prophecy of Antichrist!
“But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.” John 5:42,43 (KJB)
Vatican Watchers Stunned As Pope Francis Drops Title 'Vicar Of Christ' Assumes Power As Jorge Mario Bergoglio In 'His Own Name' Fulfilling John 5:43 Prophecy Of Antichrist • Now The End Begins

No one will be satisfied either way. At least half of the controversy over Pope Francis reminds me of the words of Jesus in Matt 11:
"We played the pipe for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn."

 

[Douggg]

No one will be satisfied either way. At least half of the controversy over Pope Francis reminds me of the words of Jesus in Matt 11:
"We played the pipe for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn."

To me, I think it is internal Vatican politics (like the Dems wanting Trump out). The issue probably means more to some Catholics than others. As I understand that there is an internal to Catholics, conflict between liberalism and conservatism (more appropriate for a catholic to comment, than me).

From a bible prophecy perspective, the pope, whoever, the current one or any other, is not the Antichrist because he is not qualified to become the King of Israel (for a while) which is the role of the Antichrist - the king of Israel, instead of and against the rightful King of Israel Jesus.

 

[fhansen]

To me, I think it is internal Vatican politics (like the Dems wanting Trump out). The issue probably means more to some Catholics than others. As I understand that there is an internal to Catholics, conflict between liberalism and conservatism (more appropriate for a catholic to comment, than me).

From a bible prophecy perspective, the pope, whoever, the current one or any other, is not the Antichrist because he is not qualified to become the King of Israel (for a while) which is the role of the Antichrist - the king of Israel, instead of and against the rightful King of Israel Jesus.

Well, at least we got that down then- LOL. Anyway, yes there are rival factions within the church-always have been since Peter & Paul were arguing I guess. But the church teachings, themselves, are of the highest import as I see it. And liberals, especially, will continue to be offended by many of those, while "traditionalists", not conservatives necessarily, are often concerned with more peripheral and non-essential matters IMO.

 

[SeventyOne]

If I had to guess, it's a fulfillment of when Jesus said that He came in the Father's name but they didn't receive him, but another will come in his own name and him they will receive.

We are watching the beast system being setup as we speak. Time being so short, my guess he's probably continuing the setting up for his role as the false prophet.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

I'm having a lot of trouble taking an article from a website called "nowtheendbegins.com" seriously.

VICARIVS FILII DEI, a title the Pontiff has held for hundreds of years can't be relinquished by omission from an annual address book. I think it was removed from his mitre many, many years ago, possibly because the Roman numeral sum value of the Latin title is 666. (Not an accusation, just a fact)

The Pope, himself seems like a lovely, caring man.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

HArdly the most reliable and well known of sources. May as well be Conspiracy Theories R Us.com

 

[Mountainmike]

I think people should go back to history.
All the way back to first generation after apostles and those taught by them. So ignatius to magnesians “ your bishop presides in the place of Christ” is the origin of the vicar of Christ, used of bishops generally.

So it clearly was there from the early church on, not part of an apostasy. Indeed the apostates are those who disavow the power of succession.

 

[Barney2.0]

Well if you’ve read the history of the Papacy, stuff happening like this isn’t strange. I think it’s good for the Pope to drop a title like that, since Christ is the head of the Church in heaven and on Earth. No Patriarch is a vicar of Christ or shadow of God on Earth. However just a question to any Roman Catholics here, how can you remain a Roman Catholic when dogma and theology is obviously constantly changing whenever a Pope feels like it?

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Exactly! It really is! But our God is a merciful God. What is freaking us out He has under control.

Michie, I just have to say, you're my favorite person on CF. I don't mean to be unduly flattering, but you're so grounded. Indeed, God is not perplexed by our problems. He knows the end from the beginning, and what's more, He's tried on every one of our temptations to make sure they're our size, and no bigger than what we're up for. God bless you for allowing Him to use you in such a positive way here on CF.

 

[Gnarwhal]

The link is obviously mischaracterizing Archbishop Viganò’s letter.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Well if you’ve read the history of the Papacy, stuff happening like this isn’t strange. I think it’s good for the Pope to drop a title like that, since Christ is the head of the Church in heaven and on Earth. No Patriarch is a vicar of Christ or shadow of God on Earth. However just a question to any Roman Catholics here, how can you remain a Roman Catholic when dogma and theology is obviously constantly changing whenever a Pope feels like it?

You might want to read "How To Win Friends And Influence People."

 

[Jesse Johnson]

I think people should go back to history.
All the way back to first generation after apostles and those taught by them. So ignatius to magnesians “ your bishop presides in the place of Christ” is the origin of the vicar of Christ, used of bishops generally.

So it clearly was there from the early church on, not part of an apostasy. Indeed the apostates are those who disavow the power of succession.

A little off-topic and inflammatory, isn't it?

 

[Michie]

Michie, I just have to say, you're my favorite person on CF. I don't mean to be unduly flattering, but you're so grounded. Indeed, God is not perplexed by our problems. He knows the end from the beginning, and what's more, He's tried on every one of our temptations to make sure they're our size, and no bigger than what we're up for. God bless you for allowing Him to use you in such a positive way here on CF.

Aw! Thank you! Not sure I deserve all that but I’ll take it! God bless you!

 

[Reader Antonius]

Well if you’ve read the history of the Papacy, stuff happening like this isn’t strange. I think it’s good for the Pope to drop a title like that, since Christ is the head of the Church in heaven and on Earth. No Patriarch is a vicar of Christ or shadow of God on Earth. However just a question to any Roman Catholics here, how can you remain a Roman Catholic when dogma and theology is obviously constantly changing whenever a Pope feels like it?

This would be a great question to ask over at One Bread, One Body–the Catholic forum here on CF. Not only would you be in a better place (so to speak), but you would also likely get many more answers. But, moderation-permitting, I'll try to answer a bit here. Be forewarned though that I won't go beyond my initial answer, lest this become too much of a tangent.

To begin, I would say that I'm actually a well-read student of the history of the papacy, if do I say so myself. It's one reason that I'm Catholic today (which may surprise you). The title "vicarius Christi" is actually quite unassuming when translated and understood contextually. It simply means that, like any bishop or successor to the Apostles, the Pope is a representative of Christ. It does not mean a replacement (God-forbid!) or anything like that. In Catholic theology moreover, because of the Petrine ministry uniquely conferred on St. Peter (and by extension, his special successors), the Pope of Rome has a unique representation of Christ in having an authority no other bishop has. Hence, it became customary in the West to refer almost exclusively to the Pope of Rome has "vicar of Christ" to emphasize this unique authority. This does not change however that every bishop and patriarch is also a "vicar" of Christ.

Additionally, Catholics do not believe that the Pope is the head of the Church per se. Christ is the head. The Pope is merely the "visible head" or "earthly head" who exercises authority given to Him by the true Head, Christ. A better way of understanding the Pope's role is not "head of the Church" but "prime minister" or "royal steward" (the latter being, we believe, very Biblical, cf. Matthew 16; Isaiah 22).

Lastly, your characterization of Catholic dogma as always evolving based on papal whim (sadly a common idea in recent centuries) is very skewered, at least from our perspective. We believe that it is true that Catholic dogma develops, but it does not change from one thing to another new thing. More could be said, but I'll note simply that your characterization is also not in my own experience.

When I was on the journey to becoming Catholic (I was raised Baptist), I felt that the easiest way to disprove Catholic doctrine would be to show that it had fundamentally changed over the centuries. So I attempted to demonstrate just that to myself. I never found it; not in the way that it threatens what would become my chosen belief. I have never really ceased "sniffing out" such seeming contradictions actually, and I still haven't found a single one that represents a break with previous teaching or an entirely "new" doctrine.

In my personal experience, as both a lay Catholic and a student of history & theology, I simply do not see dogma changing based on papal whim. What I do see are careful developments in understanding the already established doctrines handed down by the Apostles (and ending with them; cf. Jude 3).

I hope that begins to answer your question, and if I have stepped over any bounds unwittingly, I apologize.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

by Geoffrey Grider April 4, 2020


Archbishop Viganò said it’s as if Pope Francis now views himself as becoming “master of the Church, free to demolish it from within without having to answer to anyone. In short, a tyrant,” he said.
Roman Catholics from deep within the Vatican are sounding the alarm bells today because Pope Francis is once again doing wacky, end times stuff. Today’s story comes from an article on the Catholic site Life Site News from a statement they received from Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò. Viganò is quite alarmed that Pope Francis has dropped the title ‘Vicar of Christ’ in the annual Vatican Yearbook, and instead has listed himself in ‘his own name’ of Jorge Mario Bergoglio. Life Site News and Viganò are rightly alarmed by this breach of long-standing Vatican protocol, but if they knew anything about bible prophecy, they’d really be quaking in their boots. What Pope Francis did is a prophecy of Antichrist!
“But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.” John 5:42,43 (KJB)
Vatican Watchers Stunned As Pope Francis Drops Title 'Vicar Of Christ' Assumes Power As Jorge Mario Bergoglio In 'His Own Name' Fulfilling John 5:43 Prophecy Of Antichrist • Now The End Begins

Maybe this Pope is actually born again.
Blessings

 

[Mountainmike]

How so? It is useful to trace the origin of terms in order to judge the veracity of them. Indeed the title, role, succession, and power of succession bishops in respect of sacraments and passing true faith was there from the first generation after the apostles. It is from there I took a reference. So the pope is hardly adopting a new role, whether or not he chooses to emphasise it or deemphasise it.

A little off-topic and inflammatory, isn't it?