BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

[Shrewd Manager]

Jesus comes for the saved--they are resurrected and go with Him for a thousand years. the wicked are dead and sty dead during the 1000 years.
Satan is released after the 1000 years. He is bound for a 1000 years and the saved are with Jesus during those 1000 years. After the 1000 years, Satan is loosed, the wicked are resurrected and he goes and gathers them against God.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Satan gathers the nations together from everywhere, and they all get consumed by holy fire. So they're toast, according to you?

So my question is still - who are the nations referred to after this event in Rev 21:24-26 and 22:2?

 

[Lazarus Short]

Three questions:

1. How can anyone still be dead and/or in Hell after Death itself has been destroyed?

2. With Death destroyed, will the Lake of Fire not give up its dead?

3. How can anyone still be dead and/or in Hell if God is going to become All in all? (I Corinthians 15:28).

 

[mmksparbud]

Satan gathers the nations together from everywhere, and they all get consumed by holy fire. So they're toast, according to you?

So my question is still - who are the nations referred to after this event in Rev 21:24-26 and 22:2?

Told you---the wicked have been resurrected, the saved were the first resurrection. Satan gathers the resurrected wicked.

Three questions:

1. How can anyone still be dead and/or in Hell after Death itself has been destroyed?

2. With Death destroyed, will the Lake of Fire not give up its dead?

3. How can anyone still be dead and/or in Hell if God is going to become All in all? (I Corinthians 15:28).

The wicked, along with Satan are all destroyed in the fire---that is the 2nd death. Death and hell are all destroyed after the wicked are ashes. Then God will remake the earth. There will be no more hell.

 

[Saint Steven]

Well, no. I have known some KJVO folks, and was not convinced by their offered proof. Translation should be done by experts in the respective languages. The KJV, as I understand, was translated by churchmen and theologians. Doctrine in...doctrine out.

Eugene Peterson, who translated The Message Bible, says that the KJV was translated into the English court language. No one spoke KJ English, except in the courts of law.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Eugene Peterson, who translated The Message Bible, says that the KJV was translated into the English court language. No one spoke KJ English, except in the courts of law.

I find that very interesting - thanks!

 

[Saint Steven]

I said provide verses---just one would do---that states God gives eternal life to the lost---or says that people will come out of hell to live in the presence of God--not one of those verses says that.

Try this on for size.

John 6:35-40 The Message Bible
Jesus said, "I am the Bread of Life. The person who aligns with me hungers no more and thirsts no more, ever. 36 I have told you this explicitly because even though you have seen me in action, you don't really believe me. 37 Every person the Father gives me eventually comes running to me. And once that person is with me, I hold on and don't let go. 38 I came down from heaven not to follow my own whim but to accomplish the will of the One who sent me. 39 "This, in a nutshell, is that will: that everything handed over to me by the Father be completed - not a single detail missed - and at the wrap-up of time I have everything and everyone put together, upright and whole. 40 This is what my Father wants: that anyone who sees the Son and trusts who he is and what he does and then aligns with him will enter real life, eternal life. My part is to put them on their feet alive and whole at the completion of time."

 

[Saint Steven]

I find that very interesting - thanks!

Here's more info on The Message translation and Eugene Peterson. The Message The Bible in Contemporary Language

 

[Saint Steven]

Your pithy words of wisdom have a certain endearing quality, Jeff. But wouldn't you agree that, when interpreting scripture, the allegorical sense is generally to be preferred as it yields an enduring spiritual interpretation? After all, it's what we mainly use to find Jesus in the OT, eg typologies. So why prefer the literal sense of scripture, which is more at the mercy of translators and our own historical context/ prejudices?

Right. These folks are happy to claim that "all" doesn't mean all. Unless it is in reference to a text that supports Damnationism.

 

[Saint Steven]

Too easy bro:

I think @mmksparbud is a "sis" (not a bro) - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

The mentally handicapped and children below the age of accountability are not held as sinners by God.

Do you have chapter and verse on that?

 

[Saint Steven]

And if HE didn’t “draw” you, you never had an opportunity to “respond” according to your Bible.

Joh 6:44 No one, can come unto me, except, the Father who sent me, draw him,—and, I, will raise him up, in the last day

IOW His Drawing and His will as to WHEN you are “ordained to believe”

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

And where exactly is your verse saying God has to do that in this life ONLY? According to your indoctrination, that is. ​

Right.
Yet the Damnationist doctrine states that those whom God DID NOT draw to himself will be PUNISHED for all eternity with conscious torment both night and day with no hope of escape for the CRIME of not being drawn by God. Makes no sense to me. Maybe the Damnationists can explain this?

 

[Saint Steven]

...the wicked are not subject to eternal punishment for temporal sins...

Wow. That's powerful. (post#573)
Therefore "hell" as defined by the Damnationists CANNOT by justice. Even human justice understands what cruel and unusual punishment means. Yet the Damnationists accuse God of such crimes AGAINST humanity which are his children created in his very image. Unthinkable.

 

[Saint Steven]

...versus the violence, torture, and bloodshed which later set in after the Hell theory became dominant.

It was called the Dark Ages; and for good reason.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Here's more info on The Message translation and Eugene Peterson. The Message The Bible in Contemporary Language

I watched the video and then went downstairs to look at my Bible collection. There it was, The Message. I had decided it was just another paraphrase, but I think I'll look into it now...

I liked how Peterson stated that his translation was not his own book, but God's Book.

 

[Der Alte]

Three questions:
1. How can anyone still be dead and/or in Hell after Death itself has been destroyed?
2. With Death destroyed, will the Lake of Fire not give up its dead?
3. How can anyone still be dead and/or in Hell if God is going to become All in all? (I Corinthians 15:28).

Perhaps you should try actually reading your Bible along with the handful of out-of-context proof texts.

Revelation 21:4-8
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

Note, vs. 4 “no more death” vs. 5, “I make all things new.” But in vs. 8 there are 8 groups of people thrown into the lake of fire which is still the “second death.”
In vs. 7 there is a condition, here is the converse of that condition, “He that overcometh NOT shall NOT inherit all things; and I will NOT be his God, and he shall NOT be my son.”

 

[Saint Steven]

I watched the video and then went downstairs to look at my Bible collection. There it was, The Message. I had decided it was just another paraphrase, but I think I'll look into it now...

I liked how Peterson stated that his translation was not his own book, but God's Book.

Agreed.
I thought it was a paraphrase as well. It certainly reads like one. But he is a Hebrew and Greek scholar. I love the story about how he did the translation work originally as teaching for his congregation. He wanted a Bible translation in the language of the people.

His original plan was a Bible with no chapter or verses "interruptions" in the text. But he lost that battle with the publisher.

 

[Hillsage]

What are you reading???
1Co 13:11 I understood as a child
1Co 13:13 And now abideth charity.

I'm reading what you appparently don't 'understand'.....charity/love abides forever....not eternal torture.,

It is

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

I know what "It is" it is the FIRE OF GOD'S judgment on CHRISTIANS in this age, doing the very same thing his 'age lasting fires' will do in the ages to come. And 'that is' bring righteousness to those not shown grace/favor in this age.

ISA 26:9 My soul yearns for thee in the night, my spirit within me earnestly seeks thee. For when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness. 10 If favor is shown to the wicked, he does not learn righteousness;

PSA 36:6 Thy righteousness is like the mountains of God, thy judgments are like the great deep; man and beast thou savest, O LORD.

The nominal church would have God save their 'pets/beast' and torture eternally the man....made in the image of God. I like His judgments better. Though they seem to be a "great deep" for the shallow thinking, to understand.

It is definitely God's will for every man to be saved---unfortunately---God has given us free will---we can choose to not be saved! God does not force the will---He doesn't torture us until we give in to His demands. We have this life in which to choose Him or not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you have not proven your point at all.

My fully scriptural and intact bubble response is not 'religious talk' it is God's word. YOUR QUOTE NO VERSES proving your mythical orthodox belief of FREE WILL for initial salvation.

JOH 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

You actually do understand a little bit, when you correctly say; he doesn't force any;

PHI 2:13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

And please don't try to belittle my understanding of 'the ways of God' by saying He can't do this until you ARE saved. Give Him the glory that you and your side try to steal. You don't even have the FAITH TOO BELIEVE until it is HIS TIMING.

Yes, all will bow before God---

xPhp 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

This passage however does not state that this is to be after hell. Are you assuming that hell is under the earth? Nothing says so.

I tire of your failures to address commonly quoted verses by me to the contrary;

EPH 2:7 that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God --

When you realize, if you ARE saved in this age, he doesn't need to save you AGAIN. But his saving grace will be SHOWN to those denied HIS 'DRAWING', HIS 'CALLING', HIS 'ELECTING' AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST HIS 'ORDAINING THAT YOU MIGHT BELIEVE'.

All the red above are predestination from, by, and through HIM scriptures. Ones I've posted many times with no rebuttals. by you FREE WILLIE believers.

You have not given the verses that I asked for.

Oh, they have been given, just not understood.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Wow. That's powerful. (post#573)
Therefore "hell" as defined by the Damnationists CANNOT by justice. Even human justice understands what cruel and unusual punishment means. Yet the Damnationists accuse God of such crimes AGAINST humanity which are his children created in his very image. Unthinkable.

What you quoted, and my interpretation of it, are built on what I found in the Law given to Moses. In that Law, the punishment fits the crime, no punishment is greater than death, and no threat is made against the dead at all. Given that, Eternal Conscious Torment does not fit ANY crime, and violates the no-punishment-after-death rule.

EDIT: I should not have said "rule" - it should read "...violates the no-punishment-after-death principle."

 

[Der Alte]

Here's more info on The Message translation and Eugene Peterson. The Message The Bible in Contemporary Language

This is known as cherry picking versions. Look around until you find a version which supports your assumptions/presuppositions and claim that it is the be all, end all accurate version. I glanced at your quote from the Message Bible and saw at least two glaring errors where the "translator" added words to make it say what folks like you want it to say and you even highlighted them. The word translated "all things" in correct translations is neuter it can only refer to things not people i.e. not "everyone" as MB says.

 

[Hillsage]

Dear Sage: I like the "total inability" aspect of where each of us find ourselves. Most of us dorks are unaware of how totally destitute we truly are without a serious interjection of His enveloping Presence. Yes, brother, God indeed sees in every one the great need with all the resources of His to more than remedy it!

It definitely took the 'hound of heaven' to hunt down this sinner. A sinner who had actually spoken a clench fisted 'word curse vow' to the God I learned of from the apostasy teachings. I vowed to 'rather go' to their ETERNAL HELL with my friends, than live with the hypocrisy and false doctrines I was taught to believe. Yes, to him be the glory for me, and for the 'ALL' whom he forgave when He died for them. Though they will experience that forgiveness in His time. Then they too will have their FIRST CHANCE to be eternally grateful TOO. A belief too glorious for the carnal religious lie from the father of lies.