The ethics of voting for Donald Trump

[Rev Life]

Still no answer to my question on page 4.

What exactly has Trump done to reduce abortion across the US? Since this is what you are voting on him for.

In my original post I made 6 numbered points where I demonstrate how Donald Trump has contributed to the pro-life movement.

 

[Sparagmos]

As a Christian, I can't condone pre-marital sex either. Yes I know it happens and yes I know it won't stop but I can't in good faith go and hand out condoms to teenagers. I do think they should be available cheaply and I do think teenagers need to know how pregnancy happens.

Hormone based birth control works in a few ways. It prevents ovulation, thickens the mucus lining so as to prevent fertilization, and thins the lining of the uterus, which may prevent implantation if fertilization does occur. A fertilized ovum means life has begun.
Apart from that, all hormone-based contraception comes with a variety of health risks that people like to overlook. The estimated failure rate is has high as 5% to as low as being under 1%.

Well, the consequence of not giving young people condoms is abortion. You are living in a fantasy world if you think that people are going to start having sex because they have access and education around birth control, or that not providing condoms will prevent premarital sex. I was not given proper education on birth control, was told condoms don’t work and nothing about the rhythm method, was simply taught abstinence and I had unprotected sex and got pregnant at 18. Look at teen pregnancy rates in Texas! abstinence only education has done NOTHING to prevent teen sex and pregnancy.

 

[Sparagmos]

Preventing unwanted pregnancies and putting an end to legal abortion are two completely different subjects.

Unwanted pregnancy is why ppl have abortions. Reduce unwanted pregnancy and you reduce abortions.

 

[KCfromNC]

The document says clearly that a Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who favors a policy that promotes an intrinsically evil act such as abortion “if the voter’s intent is to support that position” (No. 34).

Sounds like a terrific reason to revoke their lobbying organization's tax-exempt status.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

We need to face the reality that Donald Trump is not competent intellectually nor morally to hold office. How can it be ethical to vote for him?

 

[Albion]

We need to face the reality that Donald Trump is not competent intellectually nor morally to hold office. How can it be ethical to vote for him?

We have figured out that your assessment is wrong.

 

[Strathos]

So... forcing "sex education" on people who don't want them/their children indoctrinated with it and cheapening human intimacy further through the pill, hookup culture, etc.

If the choice is between allowing teenagers to have safe premarital sex and them getting pregnant and having abortions, I'll choose the lesser evil of the former.

This mentality of "I might die so this child, who has done nothing wrong, should die" is a false delusion. I would encourage 'pro choice' people to go watch videos on the internet of abortions taking place. They exist. If it's not wrong, you should be able to stomach it. That's how one of my friends became pro life.

I'd love it if no abortions would ever happen, but I realize that that's not realistic. The best that can be done is to reduce the need for them. Outlawing it outright won't do that.

How about we let states and local governments decide what kinds of procedures should be outlawed? Therefore liberals could go live in states with laws they like and pro life people in states they like.

That approach has problems, but it would be better than a national prohibition.

Why should Christians care about those principles? When did we or our ancestors agree to those principles? Those aren't my principles. Killing a child in the womb because of some abstract "rights" of the mother is wrong according to my principles.

I never said anything about the rights of the mother. I'm speaking from a purely practical standpoint. In an ideal world, there would be no abortion. There would also be no war, no hate, no crime, no apostasy, etc.

But we don't live in an ideal world.

 

[KarlKarlingIII]

Sounds like a terrific reason to revoke their lobbying organization's tax-exempt status.

The highly political SPLC is also a non-profit and exempt but we have to tax the Christians because...

We need to face the reality that Donald Trump is not competent intellectually nor morally to hold office. How can it be ethical to vote for him?

And who is intellectual or moral? Enlighten us.

Unwanted pregnancy is why ppl have abortions. Reduce unwanted pregnancy and you reduce abortions.

If they were Christian, they would see a child is a gift from God and stop trying to resist the laws of God and nature.

If the choice is between allowing teenagers to have safe premarital sex and them getting pregnant and having abortions, I'll choose the lesser evil of the former.



I'd love it if no abortions would ever happen, but I realize that that's not realistic. The best that can be done is to reduce the need for them. Outlawing it outright won't do that.



That approach has problems, but it would be better than a national prohibition.



I never said anything about the rights of the mother. I'm speaking from a purely practical standpoint. In an ideal world, there would be no abortion. There would also be no war, no hate, no crime, no apostasy, etc.

But we don't live in an ideal world.

It's not "safe sex", their souls are in danger.
St. Paul in 1 Cor 11 says take a wife if you are going to fall into immorality. Not put on a condom, not get an abortion, get married. That's the biblical answer.

 

[Paulos23]

If the choice is between allowing teenagers to have safe premarital sex and them getting pregnant and having abortions, I'll choose the lesser evil of the former.

The thing is, no matter what you tell then they are going to have sex. So it is better in my mind that they have knowledge and access to methods to reduce pregnancy rather then for them to not have any protection.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

We have figured out that your assessment is wrong.

Maybe, but it is certainly a close call.

 

[coffee4u]

Well, the consequence of not giving young people condoms is abortion. You are living in a fantasy world if you think that people are going to start having sex because they have access and education around birth control, or that not providing condoms will prevent premarital sex. I was not given proper education on birth control, was told condoms don’t work and nothing about the rhythm method, was simply taught abstinence and I had unprotected sex and got pregnant at 18. Look at teen pregnancy rates in Texas! abstinence only education has done NOTHING to prevent teen sex and pregnancy.

Where did I say

if you think that people are going to start having sex because they have access and education around birth control

Nowhere that's where. Maybe try reading next time. I said

I do think they should be available cheaply and I do think teenagers need to know how pregnancy happens.

Young people should wait for marriage, that is what God calls us to do. But if they won't wait and if condoms are available cheaply and they refuse to buy them, that responsibility is on them not on me for not handing them out like candy for free. If they are old enough to have sex they are old enough to take responsibility for it.

 

[Sparagmos]

If they were Christian, they would see a child is a gift from God and stop trying to resist the laws of God and nature.

LOL. You’re a hoot.

 

[Strathos]

It's not "safe sex", their souls are in danger.
St. Paul in 1 Cor 11 says take a wife if you are going to fall into immorality. Not put on a condom, not get an abortion, get married. That's the biblical answer.

And once again I return to my example of theocratic laws. If you're a Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, or any other type of non-Christian then your soul is definitely in danger. Should the US pass a law to outlaw all non-Christian religions then?

 

[Strathos]

The thing is, no matter what you tell then they are going to have sex. So it is better in my mind that they have knowledge and access to methods to reduce pregnancy rather then for them to not have any protection.

Some people don't seem to want to do this calculus. It's an ugly fact but it's true. Personally I view an abortion as much worse than premarital sex. Not that the latter isn't bad, but sometimes compromises have to be made.

 

[KarlKarlingIII]

Some people don't seem to want to do this calculus. It's an ugly fact but it's true. Personally I view an abortion as much worse than premarital sex. Not that the latter isn't bad, but sometimes compromises have to be made.

The Biblical solution is marriage at a young age.

If you ask most young men out there if they would like to marry a girl who is a virgin, they say they would. Therefore they must preserve themselves in the same way.

Not everyone meets the standards of Christ, but that is what repentance is for. It’s disingenuous I believe to be Christians saying: “here, have a condom” as if putting a stamp of approval on this promiscuous culture. Promiscuity is a tragedy, not something to be celebrated.

 

[KarlKarlingIII]

And once again I return to my example of theocratic laws. If you're a Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, or any other type of non-Christian then your soul is definitely in danger. Should the US pass a law to outlaw all non-Christian religions then?

Contraception was the stepping stone used in the US to legalize abortion. It’s when the abortion mindset originates from, the idea that people should have as much sex as they want and not have any children - that the purpose of sex is not the creation of life.

 

[bèlla]

Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. —1 Corinthians 7:5

Most married couples aren’t having sex for the purpose of procreation. They’re fulfilling the other’s needs and that’s biblical.

~Bella

 

[GACfan]

We need to face the reality that Donald Trump is not competent intellectually nor morally to hold office. How can it be ethical to vote for him?

After three years of Trump, the moral reputation of the Christian Right has been blown to bits. It has resulted in his Christian supporters being accused of hypocrisy and accusations of them compromising their moral convictions, and abandoning Christian teaching to support him. Another result of this has been their personal faith and witness being publicly shunned by non-Christians and Christians alike.

 

[Woke]

We need to face the reality that Donald Trump is not competent intellectually nor morally to hold office. How can it be ethical to vote for him?

You make your statement that is opinion only.

Do you want to make a Statement of fact? Please do so. How about commenting on his intellectual competence?

I am 67 and in all those years I have never seen a presidential candidate running in their primaries beat their opponents as quickly and as severely as Donald Trump beat his.

Also, the country is experiencing the lowest unemployment rates for African American and Hispanic American it has ever experienced. It is experiencing the lowest overall unemployment rate it has in about the last 50 years. ALL DUE TO Donald Trump's POLICIES which stem from his intellectual decisions.

So, if you feel your intellectual ability exceeds his, or if you feel the previous presidents' intellectual abilities for the last 40 years exceed Trump's competence, then with your superior intellect tell us how did Donald Trump with all his incompetence got the national unemployment figures lower than they have ever been for minority races, and the overall unemployment rate lower than it's been in 50 years?

Gives us your best shot, because if your story makes no sense when you attempt to explain that then your claim will show that you are the incompetent one. It could demonstrate that you just follow the opinions of others who lead you against what is factual. That is being incompetent if you are an adult. Competent people make decisions based on fact not something they heard as opinions.

 

[Woke]

After three years of Trump, the moral reputation of the Christian Right has been blown to bits. It has resulted in his Christian supporters being accused of hypocrisy and accusations of them compromising their moral convictions, and abandoning Christian teaching to support him. Another result of this has been their personal faith and witness being publicly shunned by non-Christians and Christians alike.

Read your Bible. The same thing happened to the Jews in the first century that followed Christ.