The ethics of voting for Donald Trump

[Sparagmos]

Of course it is. Like any disease it is difficult to quarantine.

If the goal is to reduce abortions as much as possible, we should adopt the measures that have produced the lowest abortion rates, right?

 

[Strathos]

"Anti-abortion zealots"... you mean Christians?

We haven't solved the murder problem yet either, but no one is arguing murderers shouldn't be sent to prison.

Also there's a difference between having a pint of beer in the afternoon and stabbing a living human being in the womb.

I was only pointing out that they are similar in one way - attempting to outlaw them doesn't do much (if anything) to stop them.

 

[comana]

The reason why women have abortions isn't due to poverty or whatever poor excuse liberals invent; it's because they don't understand that abortion is murder. Which is to say, abortion happens because so many women aren't enlightened with the Holy Spirit and haven't realized the human being in their womb is an actual human being. To put it another way, abortion is caused by ignorance. In order to adequately address the problem, we need to bring unenlightened women to Christ and make abortion illegal.

There is a lot of ignorance in this post.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Reality is POTUS, whoever she or he may be, faces limitations in ability to affect abortion law. POTUS does not make legistlation. On the Federal level, POTUS may sign or veto legislation that makes it through the legislature. Abortion laws may be made by State government. The best POTUS can do is wait for a vacancy on the Supreme Court to present itself during his/her administration - if it does at all - and appoint justices perceived to have an anti-abortion bent to act when and if a case comes before the Supremes for review.

The rub is Supremes are appointed for life so they can be totally independent upon appointment, and vote the way they want irrespective of how POTUS thought they were going to vote at the time of their appointment. And at that, Supremes make decisions based upon the Constitution, not moral preference. So even though POTUS Trump's role in abortion law is fairly limited, some are willing to ignore all the other stuff about him and elect him anyway.

 

[Woke]

Today it has been proven millions of people are being manipulated by the news media and their democratic party leaders, to believe the lies they are told about Donald Trump, without any evidence at all, only the opinions from Democrats and the fake news media. I point to the hoax about president Trump's collusion with Russia as one proof of false narratives that are spread against him, that some of you believe, even after it's been proven a lie. Since it is so easy to manipulate the thoughts of millions, it is no wonder there are so many different beliefs about what scriptures mean, since scriptural ideas are much more complex than Trump's rhetoric and actions. Careful you aren't caught by the Devil in a similar hoax about some scriptural narrative.

God has to open a person's mind, to allow them to understand scriptures. He does so for people who can distinguish right from wrong, and choose right. Those God takes to heaven are taken to rule over people on this Earth. And they will return here to do so, with ability to travel between Earth and heaven. All of these will have the ability to distinguish truth from lies. Because that is needed to be fair judges over others.

 

[Isilwen]

Today it has been proven millions of people are being manipulated by the news media and their democratic party leaders, to believe the lies they are told about Donald Trump, without any evidence at all, only the opinions from Democrats and the fake news media. I point to the hoax about president Trump's collusion with Russia as one proof of false narratives that are spread against him, that some of you believe, even after it's been proven a lie. Since it is so easy to manipulate the thoughts of millions, it is no wonder there are so many different beliefs about what scriptures mean, since scriptural ideas are much more complex than Trump's rhetoric and actions. Careful you aren't caught by the Devil in a similar hoax about some scriptural narrative.

God has to open a person's mind, to allow them to understand scriptures. He does so for people who can distinguish right from wrong, and choose right. Those God takes to heaven are taken to rule over people on this Earth. And they will return here to do so, with ability to travel between Earth and heaven. All of these will have the ability to distinguish truth from lies. Because that is needed to be fair judges over others.

 

[carp614]

Such a difficult question that I have struggled with for years. I voted for him last time because I found him to be more trustworthy than Hillary. Mind you, it is not that I trusted Trump, only that I trusted him more than her.

My "ethic" was originally to write in my chosen candidate, a protest vote if you will. But the polls made it look like she was going to win in my state. I felt my hand was forced.

So am I going to vote for him again next time? I really don't want to, but it looks like I am going to have to vote for him again. Why? simple...

Because the agenda on the left is so totally appalling to me, the Democratic party platform is so completely anathema to my beliefs, that I am forced to vote for a egomaniacal, narcissistic, buffoon.

Here is my ethic now: Having rights is messy. People are imperfect. My expectations of the person I vote for have to be pragmatic. I have to find the least worst candidate and vote for them, because the best candidate for the office didn't even run.

 

[KarlKarlingIII]

If the goal is to reduce abortions as much as possible, we should adopt the measures that have produced the lowest abortion rates, right?

There have been 60 million abortions since Roe v Wade.

I was only pointing out that they are similar in one way - attempting to outlaw them doesn't do much (if anything) to stop them.

As Christians it is our duty to seek justice for the unborn. It is an uphill battle in this wicked society but a battle we have to fight.

Reality is POTUS, whoever she or he may be, faces limitations in ability to affect abortion law. POTUS does not make legistlation. On the Federal level, POTUS may sign or veto legislation that makes it through the legislature. Abortion laws may be made by State government. The best POTUS can do is wait for a vacancy on the Supreme Court to present itself during his/her administration - if it does at all - and appoint justices perceived to have an anti-abortion bent to act when and if a case comes before the Supremes for review.

The rub is Supremes are appointed for life so they can be totally independent upon appointment, and vote the way they want irrespective of how POTUS thought they were going to vote at the time of their appointment. And, at that Supremes make decisions based upon the Constitution, not moral preference. So even though, POTUS Trump's role in abortion law is fairly limited, some are willing to ignore all the other stuff about him and elect him anyway.

This is correct, except the Supreme Court legislates from the bench. The best thing to do is pray all the sinners involved in this disgusting system and that God will deliver us from it.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

So some feel it is a sin to vote for a "pro-Choice " candidate. What if you vote for such a candidate who then looses the election. Still a sin? Still cooperation in evil?

 

[Rev Life]

So some feel it is a sin to vote for a "pro-Choice " candidate. What if you vote for such a candidate who then looses the election. Still a sin? Still cooperation in evil?

Looses the election? Like loosening a knot? I think you mean to say lose the election (spelled with one “o,” not two).

If someone votes for a politician who describes himself as “pro-choice” but loses the election, it’s still a sin. Sure, that politician won’t be in office and capable of supporting legislation that is conducive for abortion, but consider this: Jesus said in 1 John 3:15 that whoever hates his brother is a murderer, even though no actual murder has been committed. Which is to say, sin is still sin even if it’s in the heart and no physical harm comes to anyone. Therefore, voting for failed pro-abortion politicians still constitutes a sin.

 

[Isilwen]

So some feel it is a sin to vote for a "pro-Choice " candidate. What if you vote for such a candidate who then looses the election. Still a sin? Still cooperation in evil?

There is no sin in voting for a pro-choice candidate. Even within the Catholic church it's not a sin.

 

[Isilwen]

If someone votes for a politician who describes himself as “pro-choice” but loses the election, it’s still a sin. Therefore, voting for failed pro-abortion politicians still constitutes a sin.

Can Catholics Ever Vote for Pro-Abortion Politicians? Here's What You Need to Know |

 

[Rev Life]

There is no sin in voting for a pro-choice candidate. Even within the Catholic church it's not a sin.

Wrong. The Catholic Catechism says procuring an abortion constitutes a sin. You can read the document here: Catechism of the Catholic Church - The fifth commandment

If someone votes for so-called pro-chocie politicians who then vote for legislation that enable women to obtain abortions, the voter helped procure abortions.

 

[Isilwen]

Wrong. The Catholic Catechism says procuring an abortion constitutes a sin. You can read the document here: Catechism of the Catholic Church - The fifth commandment

If someone votes for so-called pro-chocie politicians who then vote for legislation that enable women to obtain abortions, the voter helped procure abortions.

I just showed that you are wrong with the link that I provided. Go argue with Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (the future Pope Benedict XVI). He's the one that said it.

Here's another link that says you are wrong:

Yes, Catholics may vote for Bernie Sanders

Shall I keep going?

 

[Rev Life]

I just showed that you are wrong with the link that I provided. Go argue with Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (the future Pope Benedict XVI). He's the one that said it.

Here's another link that says you are wrong:

Yes, Catholics may vote for Bernie Sanders

Shall I keep going?

So you think it's true because an anonymous blogger said so? When determining what is and isn't morally acceptable on this subject, we need to refer to the Catechism, not some blogger with an incorrect opinion who is probably typing in his underwear.

 

[Isilwen]

So you think it's true because an anonymous blogger said so? When determining what is and isn't morally acceptable on this subject, we need to refer to the Catechism, not some blogger with an incorrect opinion who is probably typing in his underwear.

I showed you proof from the former Pope Benedict XVI, is he some random blogger?

Also, the link above is from the National Catholic Reporter. Hardly a random blogger typing in his underwear.

Want to try again?

 

[Isilwen]

There is also this:


"The guiding document on this is called “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship,” which the U.S. bishops refine and publish every four years prior to a presidential election and which addresses various moral issues that Catholics should consider before voting — e.g., defending the sanctity of human life, racism, promoting religious freedom, defending marriage, feeding the hungry and housing the homeless, welcoming the immigrant and protecting the environment.

The document says clearly that a Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who favors a policy that promotes an intrinsically evil act such as abortion “if the voter’s intent is to support that position” (No. 34). But the same document goes on to say, “There may be times when a Catholic who rejects a candidate’s unacceptable position even on policies promoting an intrinsically evil act may reasonably decide to vote for that candidate for other morally grave reasons” (No. 35)."

From here: Can Catholics vote for pro-choice candidates? | Catholic Courier

 

[Rev Life]

I showed you proof from the former Pope Benedict XVI, is he some random blogger?

Also, the link above is from the National Catholic Reporter. Hardly a random blogger typing in his underwear.

Want to try again?

Listen. Abortion is the number one issue of our day. As I pointed out in my original post, 7.5 times as many babies have been murdered in the womb since Roe v. Wade than Jews who were killed by the Nazis. It is a genocide. A real genocide. For this reason, the importance of voting for pro-life candidates and overturning Roe v. Wade exceeds the importance of all other issues: the economy, immigration, the national debt, and indeed everything. As Christian voters, we must focus exclusively on the number one issue of our day, which is legal abortion and the ongoing genocide that tragically continues unabated. The moral importance of the abortion issue and the subsequent need to vote pro-life cannot be understated.

 

[Isilwen]

Listen. Abortion is the number one issue of our day. As I pointed out in my original post, 7.5 times as many babies have been murdered in the womb since Roe v. Wade than Jews who were killed by the Nazis. It is a genocide. A real genocide. For this reason, the importance of voting for pro-life candidates and overturning Roe v. Wade exceeds the importance of all other issues: the economy, immigration, the national debt, and indeed everything. As Christian voters, we must focus exclusively on the number one issue of our day, which is legal abortion and the ongoing genocide that tragically continues unabated. The moral importance of the abortion issue and the subsequent need to vote pro-life cannot be understated.

You need to preface that with in your opinion that is the number one issue of our day.

To me, healthcare is the number one issue of our day that far exceeds the need to overturn Roe v. Wade.

 

[durangodawood]

Listen.....

I demonstrated in another thread exactly how the "pro life" position is really just a highly effective political wedge issue, and not really concern for the unborn. I'l have to go back and find it.