'OK' is now a hate symbol, the ADL says

[Aryeh Jay]

White supremacists should think of adopting the images of paper currency as hate symbols, then having money would be illegal.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yeah, but some Dumbo's don't get context and once told something means racism, they think every instance is racism.

I think the problem is a couple of things really....

There's a considerable number of people who believe that white supremacy isn't limited to a few thousand racist extremists....but is actually supported and promoted by a large number of Trump supporters, conservatives, and Republicans in general. This is, of course, ridiculous....but it's a rather common sentiment.

The problem with this conspiracy theory is pretty obvious....the overwhelming majority of conservatives, Republicans, and Trump supporters openly condemn white supremacy and racism in general. So how are they a part of the white supremacist conspiracy to hate minorities? They must be using coded language to let each other know they part of the conspiracy. They call this coded language "dog whistles"....and the "ok" sign is one of those.

Common sense though basically refutes this conspiracy theory....and leaves it to the folks at ADL.

 

[Chesterton]

They must be using coded language to let each other know they part of the conspiracy. They call this coded language "dog whistles"....and the "ok" sign is one of those.

I've never understood that metaphor of the "dog whistle". I mean, a dog whistle is a whistle that only dogs can hear. That should mean that only racists know what these secret codes mean. But the opposite is true - only people like the ADL knows what it "really" means. The rest of us normal people think "OK" just means "OK". Kinda the opposite of a dog whistle.

 

[All Englands Skies]

I think the problem is a couple of things really....

There's a considerable number of people who believe that white supremacy isn't limited to a few thousand racist extremists....but is actually supported and promoted by a large number of Trump supporters, conservatives, and Republicans in general. This is, of course, ridiculous....but it's a rather common sentiment.

The problem with this conspiracy theory is pretty obvious....the overwhelming majority of conservatives, Republicans, and Trump supporters openly condemn white supremacy and racism in general. So how are they a part of the white supremacist conspiracy to hate minorities? They must be using coded language to let each other know they part of the conspiracy. They call this coded language "dog whistles"....and the "ok" sign is one of those.

Common sense though basically refutes this conspiracy theory....and leaves it to the folks at ADL.

While I agree its stupid to paint swarths of people as "white supremacists" on a whim, but I don't think it can be labelled completely as a conspiracy theory, as you can find white supremacist content easily and they openly discuss a de-facto "code" to slowly sell their absurd beliefs to people, its straight from their own mouths (or writings).

It was the same with the Islamists, that was downplayed after 9/11 and it just got worse and then we got ISIS, worse than Islamist hater groups that pre-dated them, yet you could read all the rhetoric getting worse and worse year after year since 2001. So what next, with the white supremacists, its ignored until it gets out of control, then action is taken?

 

[Ana the Ist]

While I agree its stupid to paint swarths of people as "white supremacists" on a whim, but I don't think it can be labelled completely as a conspiracy theory, as you can find white supremacist content easily and they openly discuss a de-facto "code" to slowly sell their absurd beliefs to people, its straight from their own mouths (or writings).

I'm sure there are white supremacist websites....though I haven't ever been on one. If you want to post evidence of this "code" feel free.

It was the same with the Islamists, that was downplayed after 9/11 and it just got worse and then we got ISIS, worse than Islamist hater groups that pre-dated them, yet you could read all the rhetoric getting worse and worse year after year since 2001. So what next, with the white supremacists, its ignored until it gets out of control, then action is taken?

Let me just ask....what exactly is the danger that you think "white supremacists" pose?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I've never understood that metaphor of the "dog whistle". I mean, a dog whistle is a whistle that only dogs can hear. That should mean that only racists know what these secret codes mean. But the opposite is true - only people like the ADL knows what it "really" means. The rest of us normal people think "OK" just means "OK". Kinda the opposite of a dog whistle.

There's a very backwards kind of reasoning taking place as well....

A white supremacist is someone who believes in the superiority of the white race...and arguably engages in support of policy or actions intended to oppress non-whites. That's the broadest definition that keeps them from being confused with a general racist or white nationalist.

It's not exactly something that we would be able to determine about someone based on a hand gesture. Seriously. We would have to already know they are a white supremacist to make anything of the hand gesture. So what exactly does the "ok sign" tell us about someone?

Absolutely nothing.

 

[SummerMadness]

Yeah, but some Dumbo's don't get context and once told something means racism, they think every instance is racism.

But it in't that hard to work out for someone who uses their brain, white nationalists give themselves up not just by a hand gesture, but their entire rhetoric.

Though now they've even made a de facto code to spread their ideas to the "Normies" by stealth.

So, if someone wants you to "Swallow the red pill", ask them; "Does the red represent the colour of the Nazi Flag, you Hitler-loving reprobate?!"

There will always be people that can miss the context, that doesn't change the fact that white supremacists have adopted a new gesture as part of their hate.

I think you hit on another point that is missed at times, white supremacists nowadays cloak their language as they attempt to push their ideas in the mainstream, so they are not as blatant as they were in the old days.

 

[durangodawood]

Someone told me the "ok" sign also means something sexual in Mexico. Is that true?

 

[SummerMadness]

Someone told me the "ok" sign also means something sexual in Mexico. Is that true?

I'm not sure, but as with any gesture, it can mean something different depending on the context and culture: OK gesture - Wikipedia

I don't understand the complaints about its association with white supremacy, it doesn't mean that its usage in other regards are no longer valid, it simply means white supremacists have now adopted the gesture as their own.

 

[durangodawood]

I'm not sure, but as with any gesture, it can mean something different depending on the context and culture: OK gesture - Wikipedia

I don't understand the complaints about its association with white supremacy, it doesn't mean that its usage in other regards are no longer valid, it simply means white supremacists have now adopted the gesture as their own.

There's something about calling it a "hate symbol" that would imply its use is no longer permissible in any context.

Its like calling something "hate speech".... Hate speech is not acceptable in any circumstance, imo.

 

[BigDaddy4]

 

[SummerMadness]

There's something about calling it a "hate symbol" that would imply its use is no longer permissible in any context.

Its like calling something "hate speech".... Hate speech is not acceptable in any circumstance, imo.

I don’t see how that implication is made. They are using it as a hate symbol, that doesn’t mean no one else can use it. You’re making a leap in logic, but no one has made that argument.

Likewise, everything has context, hate speech has a context and intent, the words themselves are not hate speech. Likewise, a gesture is only a hate symbol when used as such. Thumbs up is an insulting gesture in some cultures, it’s not always good or bad: context and intent.

 

[durangodawood]

I don’t see how that implication is made. They are using it as a hate symbol, that doesn’t mean no one else can use it. You’re making a leap in logic, but no one has made that argument.....

I'm not implying that I think the "hate symbol" designation means it shouldnt be used.

I just think that the way the culture works. When it becomes normal to call something a "hate symbol", people will stop using that symbol in day to day contexts.

 

[tall73]

I'm not implying that I think the "hate symbol" designation means it shouldnt be used.

I just think that the way the culture works. When it becomes normal to call something a "hate symbol", people will stop using that symbol in day to day contexts.

Agreed. Which is why we should fight them for it, not concede it. It is the OK symbol, and should remain so.

 

[SummerMadness]

And racists are using to stand for white power, go fight them, stop attacking the organization that points out that they’re using it as a symbol of hate.

 

[tall73]

And racists are using to stand for white power, go fight them, stop attacking the organization that points out that they’re using it as a symbol of hate.

No, because I don't find it helpful to so label it. That just makes more people consider it a hate symbol, rather than what it is. And it causes people to try to figure out the "context" and look for "coded" language all day, looking for hate, when the vast majority of the time in this case it will not be so.

I don't find giving free press to the white supremacists helpful. I do find sharing the gospel with them, discussing with them, etc. at times helpful for change.

 

[SummerMadness]

No, because I don't find it helpful to so label it. That just makes more people consider it a hate symbol, rather than what it is. And it causes people to try to figure out the "context" and look for "coded" language all day, looking for hate, when the vast majority of the time in this case it will not be so.

I don't find giving free press to the white supremacists helpful. I do find sharing the gospel with them, discussing with them, etc. at times helpful for change.

Do like you said in your previous post and go after the white supremacists... though I won’t be holding my breath.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Do like you said in your previous post and go after the white supremacists... though I won’t be holding my breath.

The irony here of course is that had people just ignored the whole "ok sign" thing instead of turning ut into a topic of news and debate....nobody would currently think it's a "hate symbol".

This all could have been avoided by ignoring them.

 

[tall73]

Do like you said in your previous post and go after the white supremacists... though I won’t be holding my breath.

The good will is heartwarming.

I have reasoned with a number of racists, and some have come around to realizing racism is wrong.

But trying to paint normal communication as hate speech won't help that.

 

[tall73]

The irony here of course is that had people just ignored the whole "ok sign" thing instead of turning ut into a topic of news and debate....nobody would currently think it's a "hate symbol".

This all could have been avoided by ignoring them.

Exactly. And now they want a whole new round of publicity to go out, to further reinforce it. You may as well run ads for the white supremacists.