'OK' is now a hate symbol, the ADL says

[SummerMadness]

'OK' is now a hate symbol, the ADL says

The OK hand gesture and its link to white nationalism began as a hoax cooked up by users of the website 4chan, who falsely linked it to white supremacy, according to the ADL.

It was meant to bait the media or people with liberal ideals to overreact, ADL experts say, and therefore look ridiculous for condemning such an innocuous sign. But in 2019, the sign was adopted by some white nationalists.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I've never even heard of any of this.

I'll keep thinking of it as meaning "Ok". Actually I never see anyone use the symbol hardly, so I doubt it will come up much.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

... oy vey.

ETA: Actually looking at the list, it really sounds like an attempt at just damage control and actually looking like they're trying to solve the issue around white supremacy ideals, when instead they're actually doing jack-all.

 

[A Realist]

I've got a hand gesture I'd like to give to the ADL and white supremacists....

 

[Ana the Ist]

I've heard that white supremacists also have adopted the use of the word white supremacist. Therefore anyone using the term white supremacist must be a white supremacist.

 

[tall73]

Trolls did this to make us look silly. We are now going to take the bait and look silly.

Huh?

Seeing as they know that it was being done to get people to overreact, why do it?

Any notions which symbols, depictions, etc. the chan forums will next designate as a hate symbol? So far we have a cartoon frog, and the OK sign. When groups like the ADL are willing to humor them, the sky is the limit.

This just reduces people's impression of the ADL, so I guess the mission was accomplished.

 

[tall73]

I've never even heard of any of this.

I'll keep thinking of it as meaning "Ok". Actually I never see anyone use the symbol hardly, so I doubt it will come up much.

It has been ongoing:

Cubs indefinitely ban fan who used offensive hand gesture behind Doug Glanville at game

Debunked: Why Overwatch Fell for 4Chan's OK Hand Gesture Prank - Niche Gamer

 

[JCFantasy23]

Must have missed any news of it.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The whole thing was basically the right-wing attempt of what Christopher Blair (a left wing activist) did with "America’s Last Line of Defense" 'news'. He posted articles that were completely made up on legitimate right-wing facebook pages and news outlet pages, and when right wing folks (who weren't in on the joke and couldn't detect the satire) started commenting and sharing the links, it made them look silly. Blair's name for them were "Taters". They would even put little "ALLOD" easter egg watermarks in the pics in the articles so that when an outlet like Fox or Breitbart would link it, other left wing folks could see the watermark and know that they "got 'em"

This was basically an effort from some folks on the right to do the same thing and find the "taters" of the left wing, but it ended up backfiring on them and they accidentally tricked some of the people on their own half of the political spectrum.

 

[Nithavela]

I'm reminded of the bellamy salute, another innocous hand gesture.

The meaning of hand gestures change over time and from culture to culture. If enough white nationalists adopt the "OK Sign Salute" as their calling card, guess what, it becomes a racist gesture.

 

[tall73]

I'm reminded of the bellamy salute, another innocous hand gesture.

The meaning of hand gestures change over time and from culture to culture. If enough white nationalists adopt the "OK Sign Salute" as their calling card, guess what, it becomes a racist gesture.

Or it doesn't. The culture at large still interprets the meaning of symbols. And if we refuse to overreact and start decrying it as a hate symbol, it just stays an OK sign.

If a few extremists want to use it among themselves, that does not mean the culture must re-visit its larger meaning.

 

[SummerMadness]

Or it doesn't. The culture at large still interprets the meaning of symbols. And if we refuse to overreact and start decrying it as a hate symbol, it just stays an OK sign.

If a few extremists want to use it among themselves, that does not mean the culture must re-visit its larger meaning.

If white supremacist adopt it a racist gesture, then it is a racist gesture. That does not mean that everyone who uses the gesture is a racist, but when white supremacists use the gesture, it is most likely racist. And as in most cases, it's about context. If you're flashing the gesture at a rally about white "heritage," then it's probably racist. If you flash the gesture when someone asks you about an assessment of something, it's probably innocuous. Saying the gesture now is a hate symbol is not saying every instance of its use racist, but it likely is when used by white supremacists.

 

[tall73]

If white supremacist adopt it a racist gesture, then it is a racist gesture. That does not mean that everyone who uses the gesture is a racist, but when white supremacists use the gesture, it is most likely racist. And as in most cases, it's about context. If you're flashing the gesture at a rally about white "heritage," then it's probably racist. If you flash the gesture when someone asks you about an assessment of something, it's probably innocuous. Saying the gesture now is a hate symbol is not saying every instance of its use racist, but it likely is when used by white supremacists.

Except now, to please some racists apparently, any normal person using the symbol can be suspected of racism, asked about racism, etc. Or we could just say that we don't change cultural meanings to suit racists.

Now, let's take your example. Someone flashing the symbol at a white heritage rally you would think is probably racist.

But then, if attending the event is enough to conclude racist usage, then you don't need to worry about the symbol.

 

[SummerMadness]

Except now, to please some racists apparently, any normal person using the symbol can be suspected of racism, asked about racism, etc. Or we could just say that we don't change cultural meanings to suit racists.

Now, let's take your example. Someone flashing the symbol at a white heritage rally you would think is probably racist.

But then, if attending the event is enough to conclude racist usage, then you don't need to worry about the symbol.

Your complaint makes no sense. Racists are using the gesture for racist purposes... yet somehow there is an issue. I'm assuming you show the same lividness over the Bellamy salute.

 

[tall73]

Your complaint makes no sense. Racists are using the gesture for racist purposes... yet somehow there is an issue. I'm assuming you show the same lividness over the Bellamy salute.

Most people still don't think of the OK symbol as a hate symbol. Most people do now think of the Nazi salute as a hate symbol.

Do you think there is some difference in scale between the use of the Nazi salute and the use by a few white supremacists at this stage?

Why would we want to encourage the co-opting of symbols? And how many are you willing to give them?

And your willingness to assume all kinds of things about people is part of the problem. The Nazi salute was recognized as a hate symbol before I even became aware of it.

The OK symbol currently has a meaning for most people which is not racist. And we don't have to start being inquisitors every time we see it to start finding out the context.

 

[tall73]

Your complaint makes no sense. Racists are using the gesture for racist purposes... yet somehow there is an issue.

Yeah, the issue is that it is not a racist gesture for the vast majority of people. So if a gesture can only be seen to be racist by its context, and usually doesn't mean that, then just look for contextual signs of white supremacy to start with.

 

[Chesterton]

ADL is too funny. And CNN puts a pic of the Proud Boys in the middle of an article on white supremacy, lol. Like, I'm publishing an article about serial killers, and I'm just gonna stick a photo of my neighbor Bob in there...'cause I don't like Bob.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm reminded of the bellamy salute, another innocous hand gesture.

The meaning of hand gestures change over time and from culture to culture. If enough white nationalists adopt the "OK Sign Salute" as their calling card, guess what, it becomes a racist gesture.

What if they adopt the phrase "Black Lives Matter"?

It's rather silly that a minority of racists get to define the meaning of symbols for the rest of us.

 

[All Englands Skies]

I've heard that white supremacists also have adopted the use of the word white supremacist. Therefore anyone using the term white supremacist must be a white supremacist.

Judging from the hand signs the white supremacists are using, they are 100% OK! with this development.

 

[All Englands Skies]

If white supremacist adopt it a racist gesture, then it is a racist gesture. That does not mean that everyone who uses the gesture is a racist, but when white supremacists use the gesture, it is most likely racist. And as in most cases, it's about context. If you're flashing the gesture at a rally about white "heritage," then it's probably racist. If you flash the gesture when someone asks you about an assessment of something, it's probably innocuous. Saying the gesture now is a hate symbol is not saying every instance of its use racist, but it likely is when used by white supremacists.

Yeah, but some Dumbo's don't get context and once told something means racism, they think every instance is racism.

But it in't that hard to work out for someone who uses their brain, white nationalists give themselves up not just by a hand gesture, but their entire rhetoric.

Though now they've even made a de facto code to spread their ideas to the "Normies" by stealth.

So, if someone wants you to "Swallow the red pill", ask them; "Does the red represent the colour of the Nazi Flag, you Hitler-loving reprobate?!"