Do you believe if Christ came today you'll be saved?

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you believe if Christ came today you'll be saved?

Well, I will ultimately leave that up to God to decide. But a believer is told that they can have an assurance in knowing the Lord if they find that they are keeping His commandments (See 1 John 2:3). The person who has the Son, has life, and the person who does not have the Son, does not have life (1 John 5:12).

I ask the question because recently it came to my mind. I've heard a number of times when I ask people the question they will say I need to work on x or y. However, doesn't that line of thinking mean that subconsciously you believe in meriting salvation to an extent?

More like maintaining salvation. We are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace, but God's grace does not teach us to minimize sin and or to not worry about it. Titus 2:11-12 says God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. This is what God's grace teaches us (Which is contrary to the popular view of Christianity).

If Jesus came today and you think you won't go to heaven because you're smoker,

"If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1 Corinthians 3:17).

addicted to inappropriate contentography,

28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." (Matthew 5:28-30).

have an issue with your temper, etc.

There is a righteous anger (like when Jesus turned over the tables of the money changers), and there is an unrighteous anger or hate.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
(Galatians 5:19-21).

If that's the case, I believe that deep down you don't believe in salvation by faith alone (I am not knocking on those who don't affirm that).

I am glad, because the Bible does not teach that.

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:24).

Oh, and by the way: Ephesians 2:8-9 is referring to "Initial Salvation" because we have been quickened one time (Ephesians 2:1), and gifts are received one time (Ephesians 2:8). Also, Ephesians 2:8-9 is also referring to "Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism" (without God's grace) because verse 9 is the kind of work that a man would boast in over God's grace through faith in Christ. They are boasting in themselves by what they are doing. This is a man directed work. But verse 10 switches gears and talks about a completely different kind of work. It is a God directed work done through the believer (just like James 2:24 is referring to). For verse 10 refers to the kind of work that we are created in Christ Jesus to do and that we must walk in them. These are the kinds of works we are justified by. It is the Lord working through us. For Jesus says we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5).

...nor am I saying you can live as you want.

Then why suggest the inappropriate content addict, the smoker, and the person with a temper (or hate) is saved by a belief alone in Jesus?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Oh yes I believe the scripture at the bottom of my post, but I also don't see it wise to say myself that I am saved, see Matthew 5:34-36

34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

It seems that you don't believe that the Resurrection of Christ gives you any present guarantee of salvation. Strong faith is faith in God's written Word and His salvation promises. But not all Christians have that strong faith. Paul says that we have to be patient and tolerant toward "weaker brethren" who have not come to the absolute assurance that faith alone in Christ brings the assurance of salvation. John Bunyan took eight years of struggle and doubt after exercising faith in Christ, before he received his assurance of salvation. He was saved the moment he had faith in Christ, but it took him all that time before he was really assured of it.

If you are going to wait until the final judgment before you are prepared to have the assurance of salvation, then don't be surprised if you have a life full of doubts and fears about your own spiritual state, especially when you become painfully conscious of breaking God's moral Law, as we all do quite regularly.

In my view, your position is basically the same as the Catholic position of faith plus works where in the judgment they believe that their good deeds will be weighed against their sins and if the scales fall the right way they will be saved and if they don't they will have to go to purgatory to be purged of their remaining sins.

It certainly is not the gospel that Paul preached, and it is not the Protestant Reformed or Puritan position, which teach that a person can be assured of their salvation as soon as they exercise faith alone in Christ.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What is faith?

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

What is love? (baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more...)

1 John 3:18
Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

Faith is simple. It is believing that God's salvation promises are true and can be trusted.

Love is conducting one's self according to the fruit of the Spirit, toward God and man.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Most of Christianity believes in Faith Alone and or OSAS.
Sure sounds easy.
But Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few be there that finds it.
The Pharisees thought they were saved because they were the Promised people, and or that they were children of Abraham.

For the Pharisees said to Jesus, "Abraham is our father."
But Jesus replied, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham." (See John 8:39).

Many today are claiming to be children of God, but they are not doing the works of God. See 1 John 3:10, and John 3:20.

History is repeating itself.

 

[Dropout_Theologian]

I believe I would be saved, perhaps, but I also know that I would be judged by Jesus for the conduct I've had on earth, and at this point I doubt that would be a net positive judgment. Darn the selfish sinfulness of my youth!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I mean, why do you think the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness? (Matthew 25:30). Why do you think that we are told to follow after holiness, of which without it, we will not see the Lord? (See Hebrews 12:14).

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Most of Christianity believes in Faith Alone and or OSAS.
Sure sounds easy.

Jesus said that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. It is probably too easy for those who want things more complicated and sophisticated.

But Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few be there that finds it.

This is because relatively few can accept that salvation can come through just faith alone in Christ without having to do anything themselves to contribute to their salvation.

The Pharisees thought they were saved because they were the Promised people, and or that they were children of Abraham.

For the Pharisees said to Jesus, "Abraham is our father."
But Jesus replied, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham." (See John 8:39).

The work of Abraham was that he believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness. Abraham followed no Law because there was no Law in his time to follow. God told him that he would be the father of many, and he believed it; so when God told him to sacrifice Isaac, he was prepared to do it because he believed that God would raise Isaac from the dead, because he implicitly believed God's promise that he would be the father of multitudes of offspring. So Abraham was not awarded righteousness because of good deeds, but that he believed God's stated promise to him.

Many today are claiming to be children of God, but they are not doing the works of God. See 1 John 3:10, and John 3:20.

Jesus said that the work of God is to believe on Him whom God has sent. This is not about doing good deeds. Only people already saved by grace through faith can do the works of righteousness, which are generated through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Paul (as I have said before) said very clearly in Galatians that faith plus works for salvation is a false gospel and brings condemnation instead of salvation. Those who mix works with faith have no interest in Christ, and are separate from Christ. They may be very religious and moral in their conduct, but they remain unconverted, deceived into believing a false, counterfeit gospel.

So, it seems to me that your gospel is faith plus works, and you are welcome to it.

 

[timewerx]

Faith is simple. It is believing that God's salvation promises are true and can be trusted.

Love is conducting one's self according to the fruit of the Spirit, toward God and man.

These things only work if you believe in Christ.

Which takes us back to John 14:12

Faith - Galatians 5:6

Love - 1 John 3:18


We can't ignore any Biblical teachings. All must be taken in context.

 

[timewerx]

Jesus said that the work of God is to believe on Him whom God has sent. This is not about doing good deeds.

I agree.

Belief isn't about good works but a change of heart and the fruit that follows:

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

 

[devin553344]

In my view, your position is basically the same as the Catholic position of faith plus works where in the judgment they believe that their good deeds will be weighed against their sins and if the scales fall the right way they will be saved and if they don't they will have to go to purgatory to be purged of their remaining sins.

No need to insult my faith. Yes you interpret scripture differently. Why don't I quote James and Paul both:

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

So it is by Grace you are saved, noticing the definition of Grace:

Divine grace is a theological term present in many religions. It has been defined as the divine influence which operates in humans to regenerate and sanctify, to inspire virtuous impulses, and to impart strength to endure trial and resist temptation;[1] and as an individual virtue or excellence of divine origin

Truly one of the things that attracted me about the Catholic church is that they not only preach the gospel as it is recorded, but that they also provide works to the less fortunate. Works and Faith. Sounds like the effects of Divine Grace to me

 

[PizzaAddict]

I ask the question because recently it came to my mind. I've heard a number of times when I ask people the question they will say I need to work on x or y. However, doesn't that line of thinking mean that subconsciously you believe in meriting salvation to an extent? If Jesus came today and you think you won't go to heaven because you're smoker, addicted to inappropriate contentography, have an issue with your temper, etc. If that's the case, I believe that deep down you don't believe in salvation by faith alone (I am not knocking on those who don't affirm that). Just a food for thought what do you think?

PS: I am not talking universalism nor am I saying you can live as you want.

That comes from not understanding salvation and giving sin "levels" of punishmed by your own judgements. Like if you told a lie once in your life you are as guilty as mass murderer Mao Zedong there is no between it , you are either sinfull or sinless.
James 2:10 , Romans 3:23,

And yea I believe that if person does not know where he goes after he dies that he is simply not saved ( most of time ) because he/she does not understand the gospel.
You have to hear the gospel , understand it and then accept or reject it people simply don't understand it .

 

[Sal Robinson]

I understand what you mean, I just am just very careful not to confuse rest in salvation by faith with running for salvation. I see a lot of people running for salvation because they are not aware of what they already possess because they haven't learned to rest.

We run to become aware of who's we are, who we are and what we have when we confessed with our mouth and believe in our hearts Jesus is Lord, not to obtain what we already have by that Faith in Christ. I think that's the race Paul is referring to.

"I just am just very careful not to confuse rest in salvation by faith with running for salvation"

this summed it up for me soooooo well Thank you Job3315!!!

 

[Daniel C]

I'm not certain.

Remember in the verse Matthew 7:22-23. We have Christians who think they are saved but the Lord turned them away.

These Christians practiced lawlessness.

Again, I'm not absolutely certain what are laws from not, since Christianity is hugely divided over the subject.

Actually those people in that example were individuals trusting in works salvation,nothing to do with legalism:

''Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.''


So by their own testimony,the people in this example were trusting in their self-works to get them into heaven,only to get their and be shut out by the master. ouch!

Honestly the people who claim to be avid followers of the law are usually cheats who just break them when no-ones looking or sin and rationalize it to themself. But God see's everything,so these ''wonderful works'' of the law are dismissed.

 

[timewerx]

Actually those people in that example were individuals trusting in works salvation,nothing to do with legalism:

Indeed, performing / works of miracles has nothing to do with obeying/observing the Laws of the Lord.

The last phrase of those verses is about "Workers / partakers of Lawlessness"

These Christians probably practiced miraculous works but did not take heed of the Laws of the Lord (thus, called, workers of Lawlessness)

 

[Daniel C]

Indeed, performing / works of miracles has nothing to do with obeying/observing the Laws of the Lord.

The last phrase of those verses is about "Workers / partakers of Lawlessness"

These Christians probably practiced miraculous works but did not take heed of the Laws of the Lord (thus, called, workers of Lawlessness)

Their appeal was based on self justification and the work they done or works. Not being a believer.


''Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?''


Where is the appeal to based on faith?

 

[timewerx]

Their appeal was based on self justification and the work they done or works. Not being a believer.


''Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?''


Where is the appeal to based on faith?

It's good to make it very clear this subject:

BAD:
- Doing good works for the sake of salvation or earning God's favor

GOOD:
- Doing good works out of love -brought by a new nature in Christ, a change of heart

 

[Daniel C]

It's good to make it very clear this subject:

BAD:
- Doing good works for the sake of salvation or earning God's favor

GOOD:
- Doing good works out of love -brought by a new nature in Christ, a change of heart

wonderful.

Would it be possible for you to address this question though. You said the people in this example were rejected for lawlessness.


Their appeal was based on self justification and the work they done or works. Not being a believer.


''Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?''


Where is the appeal to based on faith?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

No need to insult my faith. Yes you interpret scripture differently. Why don't I quote James and Paul both:

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

So it is by Grace you are saved, noticing the definition of Grace:

Divine grace is a theological term present in many religions. It has been defined as the divine influence which operates in humans to regenerate and sanctify, to inspire virtuous impulses, and to impart strength to endure trial and resist temptation;[1] and as an individual virtue or excellence of divine origin

Truly one of the things that attracted me about the Catholic church is that they not only preach the gospel as it is recorded, but that they also provide works to the less fortunate. Works and Faith. Sounds like the effects of Divine Grace to me

I am not insulting anyone's faith. All I am doing is saying what the Council of Trent teaches. I did a mastorate paper in Catholic Theology so I am totally aware of Roman Catholic teaching on salvation, and it is definitely faith plus works. But I have also done an in-depth study of what Paul taught in Galatians, and he is adamant that the gospel he preaches is faith alone apart from works. The Council of Trent totally opposes that.

So all I am saying is how it is. My wife and her family were educated in Catholic schools, and I have a photo of her first communion in her local Catholic church, so I do have respect for the Catholic church and Catholic Christians.

So, stating the differences I see in Catholic salvation theology and Reformed theology and what I see in the book of Galatians is fair discussion and debate on this General Theology forum. I would not be having this debate on the Catholic forum for obvious reasons.

So there is no need to feel insulted, because that is not my intention. All I am saying is that if you prefer to abide by Catholic salvation theology, then I respect that, but it does not stop me stating what I believe is the truth that I see in the book of Galatians.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I believe I would be saved, perhaps, but I also know that I would be judged by Jesus for the conduct I've had on earth, and at this point I doubt that would be a net positive judgment. Darn the selfish sinfulness of my youth!

The judgment by Jesus for believers is determining what reward each will get based on what they did in their lives. There will be some works that are wood, hay and stubble and they will be burned up, and only what the Lord sees as silver, gold and precious stones will remain. We will not be judged concerning how well we kept the moral law, because Jesus kept that for us so it won't be an issue with him. Our failure to keep the moral law has the penalty of physical death, and we all have to die because of it, but at the resurrection we will be raised to newness of life in glorified bodies, free from the corruption of sin.

So, we need to be sure that what we do in this life brings the most glory to Christ as possible then it will be silver, gold and precious stones that will survive the fire.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Their appeal was based on self justification and the work they done or works. Not being a believer.


''Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?''


Where is the appeal to based on faith?

One preacher said that when he finds himself standing before the Lord, all he will be able to say is, "I saw your promises in your Word and I believed them, and trusted you to honour them." I believe that man would be embraced by the Lord and acknowledged as a true believer.