New Evidence that "The Temple Mount" is the remains of Roman Fort Antonia

[LittleLambofJesus]

JacksBratt said: ↑
If the "wailing wall" is part of the temple... then Jesus lied when He said that no rock would be left on top of another....

I have noticed that Zionist dispensationalist futurists tend to play the "then Jesus lied" card quite often.

Yes, so the wailing wall is part of the fort?

It would seem Futurists would rather Christians not read the acct of Josephus' destruction of Jerusalem.............

[Please visit my "Titus sieges Jerusalem on feast of Passover" thread:]

Titus sieges Jerusalem on Feast of Passover/Destroyer in Revelation

I looking over the event of Passover in Exodus 12, I noticed the word "destroyer<h7843> used.
I would like to compare that to the word "destroyer<623> used in Revelation 9:11.
First the OT and NT verses along with the Hebrew Greek words used:.........

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived.............

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins..................

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?" After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory. There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection. Titus now gave orders that those Jews only who resisted should be slain..............

Concerning the Temple, our LORD had foretold, particularly, that, notwithstanding their wonderful dimensions, there should "not be left one stone upon another that should not be thrown down ;" and, accordingly, it is recorded, in the Talmud, and by Maimonides, that Terentius Rufus, captain of the army of Titus, absolutely ploughed up the foundations of the Temple with a ploughshare. Now, also, was literally fulfilled that prophecy of Micah- "Therefore shall Zion, for your sakes (i. e. for your wickedness,) be ploughed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the LORD's house as the high places of the forest." (Micah iii. 12)

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes, so the wailing wall is part of the fort?

That would be the likely answer.

 

[Lost4words]

That would be the likely answer.

We agree on something!

God bless you.

 

[BABerean2]

and, accordingly, it is recorded, in the Talmud, and by Maimonides,

Please do not quote the Babylonian Talmud as a source of truth on this forum.
It claims Christ is the illegitimate son of Mary and a Roman soldier named Pantera.


.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have noticed that Zionist dispensationalist futurists tend to play the "then Jesus lied" card quite often.
It would seem Futurists would rather Christians not read the acct of Josephus' destruction of Jerusalem.............

[Please visit my "Titus sieges Jerusalem on feast of Passover" thread:]

Titus sieges Jerusalem on Feast of Passover/Destroyer in Revelation

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived.............

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins..................

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?" After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory. There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection. Titus now gave orders that those Jews only who resisted should be slain..............

Concerning the Temple, our LORD had foretold, particularly, that, notwithstanding their wonderful dimensions, there should "not be left one stone upon another that should not be thrown down ;" and, accordingly, it is recorded, in the Talmud, and by Maimonides, that Terentius Rufus, captain of the army of Titus, absolutely ploughed up the foundations of the Temple with a ploughshare. Now, also, was literally fulfilled that prophecy of Micah- "Therefore shall Zion, for your sakes (i. e. for your wickedness,) be ploughed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the LORD's house as the high places of the forest." (Micah iii. 12)

Please do not quote the Babylonian Talmud as a source of truth on this forum.
It claims Christ is the illegitimate son of Mary and a Roman soldier named Pantera.
.

Oh chill out BAB...... it was quoted in that commentary concerning the Olivet Disourse's 70ad destruction of Jerusalem. [as also shown in Revelation 18]. I am well aware of the anti-Christian Jewish Talmud of Judaism [and it is not much different than the anti-Christian Koran of Islam]

~Talmud Unmasked~ The Life of Christ/The Christian Cross.

It would benefit the Orthodox Jews to read Josephus in conjunction with the 70ad Olivet Discourse, and especially Revelation.......
===============
What Jews Can Learn from the New Testament | My Jewish Learning
Martin I. Lockshin
Martin I. Lockshin, Ph.D., is a professor at the Centre for Jewish Studies at York University in Toronto. He received rabbinic ordination after studying at the yeshiva founded by Rav Kook in Jerusalem.

It is daunting to think of the number of books a Jew “must” read in order to achieve Jewish literacy. With trepidation I suggest yet another volume to add to that list: the New Testament (NT)............................Jews can read the NT to see both the strong Jewish values and the strong anti-Jewish values there. Virtually every page of the NT addresses Judaism either implicitly or explicitly. Jews who want to read a “Jewish book” will find much of interest there.

================
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

BABerean2 said: ↑
Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.
BABerean2 said: ↑
Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)
From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

Matthew 24:1
And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.
Mark 13:1
And He going forth out of the Temple,
one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings”
Luke 21:5
and of some saying concerning the Temple,
that to goodly stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>
=================
The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:
10 from afar having stood because of the fear of Her torment, saying, Woe! woe! the great City! Babylon, the strong City!
because in one hour did come Thy judgment.
11 ‘And the Merchants of the earth shall weep and sorrow over Her,
because their lading no one doth buy any more;

 

[JacksBratt]

We agree on something!

God bless you.

We should celebrate.....

 

[BABerean2]

I am well aware of the anti-Christian Jewish Talmud of Judaism

Then why did you use it?

You use a source that you admit is "anti-Christian", and you tell me to "chill out" ?

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
..........Concerning the Temple, our LORD had foretold, particularly, that, notwithstanding their wonderful dimensions, there should "not be left one stone upon another that should not be thrown down ;" and, accordingly, it is recorded, in the Talmud, and by Maimonides, that Terentius Rufus, captain of the army of Titus, absolutely ploughed up the foundations of the Temple with a ploughshare. Now, also, was literally fulfilled that prophecy of Micah- "Therefore shall Zion, for your sakes (i. e. for your wickedness,) be ploughed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the LORD's house as the high places of the forest." (Micah iii. 12)

BABerean2 said: ↑
Please do not quote the Babylonian Talmud as a source of truth on this forum.
It claims Christ is the illegitimate son of Mary and a Roman soldier named Pantera.

Then why did you use it?
You use a source that you admit is "anti-Christian", and you tell me to "chill out" ?
.

BAB........take it up with Staff..................

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

@BABarean You refuse to see that in our Father's permissive will, He will allow the building of the third temple. Also the scripture tells us that they will build another temple, whether we want it or not.

The Bible says no such thing.

scripture tells us that they will build another temple, whether we want it or not.

That it most certainly does not.

I agree with you Jipsah.............

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I agree with you Jipsah.............

But I am not Jipsah!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Does God want a rebuilt temple made of stones and renewed animal sacrifices, after the final sacrifice of His Son?

Who will sew the temple veil back together, after God ripped it in half?

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
(See Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13)
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Handmaid for Jesus said: ↑
@BABarean You refuse to see that in our Father's permissive will, He will allow the building of the third temple. Also the scripture tells us that they will build another temple, whether we want it or not.

Jipsah said: ↑
The Bible says no such thing.
scripture tells us that they will build another temple, whether we want it or not.
That it most certainly does not.

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
I agree with you Jipsah.............

But I am not Jipsah!

Hello H f J.....

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Hello H f J.....

Hello LLOJ !

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hello LLOJ !

Hello HfJ ......

I just love these Temple Mount/Ft Antonia threads

Btw, have you ever heard of the Red Heifer Bridge and Altar?

Proof: The Temple Mount is Not @ Dome of the Rock

The Red Heifer Bridge and the Altar of the Red Heifer still intrigues me since coming across it just a few weeks ago.
What was the Temple procedure for Red Heifer back before 70ad?

And what did the bridge look like back then compared to today?
It would appear to be difficult for the 10th Legion to use because of it's narrowness.............

The bridge shown here looks like an earthen bridge?

With my southern location for the temple completed the next logical step for me would be to locate the approximate area for the altar of the red heifer sacrifice on the Mount of Olives.

Of course the Red Heifer altar would have been built 2000 cu. (outside the camp) from the Holy of Holies. A place where the temple could still be seen, which was the summit of the Mount of Olives. (Num 35:5, Num 19:2-9, Mishnah Middot 2:4)
On the map below I had placed my diagram of Solomon's temple complex and drew a line from the Holy of Holies through the inner and outer east gates, and continued it to the summit of the Mt of Olives. This year a friend measured the mount on foot, using simple tools, starting at the backside of Zechariah's Tomb up to the summit. I then added my measurements from the Holy of Holies to the backside of Zechariah's Tomb to his (as if the bridge were there). The approximate 2000 cu (17.5 cu) ended in the Carmelite Olive Grove at the top of the Mt of Olives. I used my diagram of Solomon's Temple in the map below, since Herod moved the location of the Temple house a little to the North. I also transposed Warren's map over this satellite view so that I could be as exact as possible.
=============================
Red Heifer
Unlike ordinary sacrifices, which could be slaughtered only at the entrance of the Tent of Meeting (Lev. 17:5), the red heifer was to be slaughtered outside the camp (Num. 19:3). Not slaughtered in the camp are likewise the scapegoat (Lev. 16:10), the calf whose neck is broken (Deut. 21:4), and the birds used in the purification of the recovered leper (Lev. 14:7). The red heifer was more like an ordinary sacrifice than these, however, in that some of its blood was sprinkled seven times toward the front of the Tent of Meeting (Num. 19:4).

 

[DennisTate]

During the last 50 years thousands of Christians and Jews have prayed at the remains of a Roman fort in the city of Jerusalem, which was built to house the thousands of Roman soldiers needed to police the city during the time of Christ.

Why? Because they have ignored the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:1-3, and Luke 19:41-44, and they have also ignored recent archeological evidence.

Recently a Roman Amphitheater was discovered underground at the "western wall" of the fort.

Read the book "Temple" by Robert Cornuke, which reveals the work of Israeli archeologist Eli Shukron, who became famous for rediscovering the Pool of Siloam.


See the links below about the Roman Amphitheater and Roman Fort Antonia.

Archaeologists just discovered an ancient lost theatre near the Western Wall in Jerusalem

The Temple Mount and Fort Antonia

.

There are other Israeli archeologists who stated something very similar.

Ernest L. Martin - Wikipedia

In his 1999 book The Temples that Jerusalem Forgot, Martin argued that the Haram al-Sharif is not the location of the last Temple. This was significant given his relationship with Herbert W. Armstrong whose editorial in The Plain Truth magazine was cited by Denis Michael Rohan as a reason for setting fire to the Al Aqsa mosque during the 1960s.

The basis of this work began with Martin's first visit to Jerusalem in 1961 when he first met Benjamin Mazar and later his son Ory Mazar, who informed him of his belief that the Temples of Solomon and Zerubbabel were located on the Ophel mound to the north of the original Mount Zion on the southeast ridge. In a 1996 draft report to support this theory, Martin wrote, "I was then under the impression that Simon the Hasmonean (along with Herod a century later) moved the Temple from the Ophel mound to the Dome of the Rock area." However, after studying the words of Josephus concerning the Temple of Herod the Great, which was reported to be in the same general area of the former Temples, he then read the account of Eleazar who led the final contingent of Jewish resistance to the Romans at Masadawhich stated that the Roman fortress was the only structure left by 73 C.E.. "With this key in mind, I came to the conclusion in 1997 that all the Temples were indeed located on the Ophel mound over the area of the Gihon Spring."[4] From these conclusions, Martin produced his book in which he asserted that the Temples of Jerusalem were located over the Gihon Spring and not over the Dome of the Rock. He wrote, "What has been amazing to me is the vast amount of Jewish, Muslim, and Christian records that remain available from the first to the sixteenth centuries that clearly vindicate the conclusions that I have reached in this book of research."

 

[BABerean2]

There are other Israeli archeologists who stated something very similar.

Ernest L. Martin - Wikipedia

According to the article Martin was a citizen of the U.S.

.

 

[JacksBratt]

Another interesting tid bit... The Coliseum in Rome was built by Titus... well finished from what his father started.... Titus built the Coliseum with stones of the destroyed temple in Jerusalem. Titus destroyed the Temple after his father rushed back to Rome to become emperor.... after the death of Nero..

The Coliseum was a place of anti Christian Satanic torture... Satan usually takes things that are holy and uses them for evil.... The temple was Holy...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Another interesting tid bit... The Coliseum in Rome was built by Titus... well finished from what his father started.... Titus built the Coliseum with stones of the destroyed temple in Jerusalem. Titus destroyed the Temple after his father rushed back to Rome to become emperor.... after the death of Nero..

The Coliseum was a place of anti Christian Satanic torture... Satan usually takes things that are holy and uses them for evil.... The temple was Holy...

Interesting.
First I have heard of that.

Colosseum 'built with loot from sack of Jerusalem temple'

A recently deciphered inscription was made public yesterday as organisers prepared for an exhibition on the monument, opening next week. A feature of the show is a large, altar-like stone with a chiselled Latin inscription, which tells how a senator, Lampaudius, had the Colosseum restored in AD 443.

But holes still visible in the surface clearly corresponded to different lettering, this time in bronze, which had been previously fitted into the stone. After a long study, Prof Geza Alfoldy of Heidelberg University, working with Italian archaeologists, deciphered the puzzle. He concluding that the original inscription read: "Imp. T. Caes. Vespasianus Aug. Amphitheatrum Novum Ex Manubis Fieri Iussit."

The translation is: "The Emperor Caesar Vespasian Augustus had this new amphitheatre erected with the spoils of war. There is no doubt what war this was, the sack of Jerusalem," said Cinzia Conti, the director of surface restoration at the Colosseum, yesterday.

Ms Conti said the Emperor Titus inaugurated the Colosseum in AD 80 with 100 days of festivities, but his father, Vespasian, had first opened it in AD 79, shortly before he died, when it was still unfinished. The original bronze lettering on the stone altar would have been made for the original opening.


Rome's Colosseum may have been built from temple plunder

According to a new theory based on a previous discovery, this monument to pagan imperial glory may have been paid for by plundering the biblical Temple in Jerusalem. Louis H. Feldman, professor of classics and literature at New York’s Yeshiva University, proposes that surprising scenario in the current issue of Biblical Archaeology Review.

First, consider the dimensions of the project. The Colosseum was the Roman Empire’s most magnificent building and most impressive engineering feat. It stood 165 feet tall, encompassed an oval one-third of a mile in circumference, had some 80 entrances and seated 50,000 (or 87,000 if one believes one fourth-century claim).

Second, note the state of imperial finances under the Emperor Vespasian (A.D. 69-79), who started the building. (It was formally dedicated in A.D. 80 and completed under his successors Titus and Domitian.) Vespasian’s predecessor Nero had drained the treasury with his extravagances, a fire had devastated Rome in A.D. 64 and a ruinous civil war preceded Vespasian’s ascent.

According to the second-century historian Suetonius, Vespasian faced a deficit of 40 billion “sesterces,” which Feldman says is the modern equivalent of billions of dollars, the largest sum of money mentioned in any records from antiquity.
=========================
Revelation 16:21 "..great HAIL fell on men as a talent weight.." Josephus

Uncovered ancient city wall in Jerusalem tells story of great Jewish

An archaeological dig has revealed Roman ammunition that is thought have been used to help break through a protective city wall prior to the destruction of the Second Temple.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

BABerean2 said: ↑During the last 50 years thousands of Christians and Jews have prayed at the remains of a Roman fort in the city of Jerusalem, which was built to house the thousands of Roman soldiers needed to police the city during the time of Christ.
Why? Because they have ignored the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:1-3, and Luke 19:41-44, and they have also ignored recent archeological evidence.
Recently a Roman Amphitheater was discovered underground at the "western wall" of the fort.
Read the book "Temple" by Robert Cornuke, which reveals the work of Israeli archeologist Eli Shukron, who became famous for rediscovering the Pool of Siloam.
See the links below about the Roman Amphitheater and Roman Fort Antonia.
Archaeologists just discovered an ancient lost theatre near the Western Wall in Jerusalem
The Temple Mount and Fort Antonia

The Jews at least have an excuse for ignoring Matt and Luk... for the simple fact that non-Christian Jews don't read our NT and especially the Olivet Discourse and Revelation.
However I have no idea why Christians would pray at what was part of a pagan Roman fort.

There are other Israeli archeologists who stated something very similar.

Ernest L. Martin - Wikipedia
In his 1999 book The Temples that Jerusalem Forgot, Martin argued that the Haram al-Sharif is not the location of the last Temple. This was significant given his relationship with Herbert W. Armstrong whose editorial in The Plain Truth magazine was cited by Denis Michael Rohan as a reason for setting fire to the Al Aqsa mosque during the 1960s.

The basis of this work began with Martin's first visit to Jerusalem in 1961 when he first met Benjamin Mazar and later his son Ory Mazar, who informed him of his belief that the Temples of Solomon and Zerubbabel were located on the Ophel mound to the north of the original Mount Zion on the southeast ridge. In a 1996 draft report to support this theory, Martin wrote, "I was then under the impression that Simon the Hasmonean (along with Herod a century later) moved the Temple from the Ophel mound to the Dome of the Rock area." However, after studying the words of Josephus concerning the Temple of Herod the Great, which was reported to be in the same general area of the former Temples, he then read the account of Eleazar who led the final contingent of Jewish resistance to the Romans at Masadawhich stated that the Roman fortress was the only structure left by 73 C.E.. "With this key in mind, I came to the conclusion in 1997 that all the Temples were indeed located on the Ophel mound over the area of the Gihon Spring."[4] From these conclusions, Martin produced his book in which he asserted that the Temples of Jerusalem were located over the Gihon Spring and not over the Dome of the Rock. He wrote, "What has been amazing to me is the vast amount of Jewish, Muslim, and Christian records that remain available from the first to the sixteenth centuries that clearly vindicate the conclusions that I have reached in this book of research."

Informative post...........

 

[DennisTate]

According to the article Martin was a citizen of the U.S.

.

Yes... .Martin himself was American.... but his ideas regarding the Gihon Spring came from Israeli archeologists whose names are given in that article.......


Ernest L. Martin - Wikipedia

The basis of this work began with Martin's first visit to Jerusalem in 1961 when he first met Benjamin Mazar and later his son Ory Mazar, who informed him of his belief that the Temples of Solomon and Zerubbabel were located on the Ophel mound to the north of the original Mount Zion on the southeast ridge. In a 1996 draft report to support this theory, Martin wrote, "I was then under the impression that Simon the Hasmonean (along with Herod a century later) moved the Temple from the Ophel mound to the Dome of the Rock area." However, after studying the words of Josephus concerning the Temple of Herod the Great, which was reported to be in the same general area of the former Temples, he then read the account of Eleazar who led the final contingent of Jewish resistance to the Romans at Masadawhich stated that the Roman fortress was the only structure left by 73 C.E.. "With this key in mind, I came to the conclusion in 1997 that all the Temples were indeed located on the Ophel mound over the area of the Gihon Spring."[4] From these conclusions, Martin produced his book in which he asserted that the Temples of Jerusalem were located over the Gihon Spring and not over the Dome of the Rock. He wrote, "What has been amazing to me is the vast amount of Jewish, Muslim, and Christian records that remain available from the first to the sixteenth centuries that clearly vindicate the conclusions that I have reached in this book of research."

 

[BABerean2]

his ideas regarding the Gihon Spring came from Israeli archeologists whose names are given in that article.......

The Gihon Spring is an extremely rare siphon spring that could pump water up hill several times each day.

.