Was Jesus the only person who never sinned?

[CharismaticLady]

However, Billy Graham believes in Eternal Security (Which is something you and I are strongly against).

Billy Graham said,

"Only God knows if someone has truly and sincerely repented of their sins and given their life to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, but if they have, they now belong to Him forever, and their salvation is secure. The Bible says that nothing “will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:39)."​

I liked Billy Graham's article, but I believe using Romans 8:39 is wrong. That verse shows outside forces cannot separate us from God, whereas if we willfully sin a "major sin" that is like a dog returning to his own vomit. If this sin doesn't cause his death, possibly repentance can still save him.

 

[Phil W]

My point is that 1 John 3:15 is written to believers to warn them not to be hateful. This exhortation in 1 John 3:15 would not make any sense if a believer could never be hateful and they were always loving and they could never fall away from the faith by shipwrecking it.

Why do second and third time exhortations and warnings rankle you so much?
Some HAVE shipwrecked their faith.
Some have fallen away, giving in to temptation.
The final judgement will start at the church, so constant warnings are essential to keeping the ways of God fresh in our minds.
You are only a Christian as long as you act like a Christian.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why do second and third time exhortations and warnings rankle you so much?

Where do you believe I gave you this impression?
I believe the Bible is full of lots of warnings to the believer.

Some HAVE shipwrecked their faith.
Some have fallen away, giving in to temptation.
The final judgement will start at the church, so constant warnings are essential to keeping the ways of God fresh in our minds.
You are only a Christian as long as you act like a Christian.

I agree.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I liked Billy Graham's article, but I believe using Romans 8:39 is wrong. That verse shows outside forces cannot separate us from God, whereas if we willfully sin a "major sin" that is like a dog returning to his own vomit. If this sin doesn't cause his death, possibly repentance can still save him.

Billy believes suicide victims are saved if they are believers. So according to Billy, this means that it is not necessary to continually seek forgiveness with the Lord over one's sins in order to be saved. I don't believe that is biblical (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, Proverbs 28:13).

 

[CharismaticLady]

Billy believes suicide victims are saved if they are believers. So according to Billy, this means that it is not necessary to continually seek forgiveness with the Lord over one's sins in order to be saved.

Didn't he also believe they weren't in the right mind?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Didn't he also believe they weren't in the right mind?

Who is in their right mind when they commit suicide?
It still does not give men a free pass.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Who is in their right mind when they commit suicide?
It still does not give men a free pass.

I agree.

What about Judas? I wonder what the story would be if he repented and after the resurrection Jesus came to him and forgave him. Or was suicide the determining factor?

 

[Phil W]

Where do you believe I gave you this impression?

How could I not get that impression?

I believe the Bible is full of lots of warnings to the believer.

And it is because the seed of God remaineth in us that we will continue to yield to these exhortations.

I agree.

I am glad.

 

[Phil W]

Billy believes suicide victims are saved if they are believers. So according to Billy, this means that it is not necessary to continually seek forgiveness with the Lord over one's sins in order to be saved. I don't believe that is biblical (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, Proverbs 28:13).

If they were believers, God would be "running the store".
The Holy Spirit within them would have resisted the self murder of It's vessel.

 

[Phil W]

I agree.

What about Judas? I wonder what the story would be if he repented and after the resurrection Jesus came to him and forgave him. Or was suicide the determining factor?

There is no repentance from self-murder.

 

[CharismaticLady]

There is no repentance from self-murder.

That is obvious.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree.

What about Judas? I wonder what the story would be if he repented and after the resurrection Jesus came to him and forgave him. Or was suicide the determining factor?

Betrayal of the Lord on the level of what Judas did is pretty serious. Only the Lord knows fully that situation and his heart. I believe he was already on a downward spiral of sin that was very serious. But surely committing suicide is not the answer vs. seeking forgiveness with the Lord. Judas's problem goes back to his stealing money out of the collection of the disciples (John 12:6). Many will say that Judas was never saved, but Scripture says that he was Christ's familiar friend who lifted up his heel against him (Psalms 41:9).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How could I not get that impression?


And it is because the seed of God remaineth in us that we will continue to yield to these exhortations.


I am glad.

So let me get this straight. You believe that a born again believer cannot die spiritually and then come back and live again spiritually via repentance? What about the parable of the Prodigal Son?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If they were believers, God would be "running the store".
The Holy Spirit within them would have resisted the self murder of It's vessel.

I understand that suicide (in the case where they remain dead) is unforgivable. For it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this, the judgment.

However, I do believe that other sins can be forgiven, and forsaken. Is not 1 John 1:7, 1 John 1:9, and Proverbs 28:13 written to the believer?

 

[BCsenior]

However, Billy Graham believes in Eternal Security (Which is something you and I are strongly against).

However, this does not mean he was never saved.

IMO, he was a people-pleaser.
There have been many allegations made against him.
He was in bed with the pope (just a figure of speech), etc.

 

[BCsenior]

Romans 8:39 is wrong. That verse shows outside forces cannot separate us from God,
whereas if we willfully sin a "major sin" that is like a dog returning to his own vomit.
If this sin doesn't cause his death, possibly repentance can still save him.

What do you think of the 2 passages which say ...
in certain cases, it is impossible to be brought back to repentance?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Betrayal of the Lord on the level of what Judas did is pretty serious. Only the Lord knows fully that situation and his heart. I believe he was already on a downward spiral of sin that was very serious. But surely committing suicide is not the answer vs. seeking forgiveness with the Lord. Judas's problem goes back to his stealing money out of the collection of the disciples (John 12:6). Many will say that Judas was never saved, but Scripture says that he was Christ's familiar friend who lifted up his heel against him (Psalms 41:9).

I think when Jesus sent them out two by two that he was given authority to cast out demons and heal people.

 

[CharismaticLady]

What do you think of the 2 passages which say ...
in certain cases, it is impossible to be brought back to repentance?

I know of Hebrews 6, what is the other one and I'll look it up. What did you think of the video of Chuck Missler on the last verses of Mark?

We get some hints to the type of person Hebrews 6 is talking about.

1. They are immature and on milk. Heb. 5:13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.

2. They are sluggish in mind. Heb. 6:11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

They are like those in Laodecia - lukewarm. It is the hot and cold that God wants us to be, He hates the lukewarm and apathetic. If the apathetic fall away, what they had will be lost forever. Like the parable of the talents. Those that are hot are like those that get many talents.

If the second one you are also talking about is Hebrews 10, about willful sin, that is what I've been arguing about with Calvinists for years! They believe "sin is sin" and "all sin is willful". Baloney! Willful sin is a sin unto death. It is a sin of lawlessness. They have quenched the Spirit. They have turned their allegiance to the devil.

 

[RDKirk]

Or, it could be that some folk's repentance from sin is true.
Paul wrote..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Peter wrote..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
John wrote..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)

This is how one does not sin:

Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.-- John 5

Anything less that that is missing the mark.

 

[CharismaticLady]

This is how one does not sin:

Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.-- John 5

Anything less that that is missing the mark.

That is one of the things that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is for. We are reborn with the divine spirit. Ever since I received the Spirit I never pray until I hear what I am to pray for. It is immediately answered. God is in complete control of my prayer life. So in other words it is like what Jesus said. What He did and what I pray both originate with the Father.