Who is responsible for our sanctification?

[fhansen]

Eh not in those exact words, but simply stated: Those who heard, believed, and were reborn in Spirit by the power of God are counted among the elect, yes.

Hmm, yes I'm sure the elect are...the elect. Whoever they are

 

[98cwitr]

Hmm, yes I'm sure the elect are...the elect. Whoever they are

So, then my question to you: Is faith from God or is it self manifested? I ask under the pretext of a person hearing or having heard the Gospel. In other words: Does a man move his own stone heart to believe, or does God move a man's stone heart to believe? ("stone heart" is very effectual here, so please consider)

 

[Aabbie James]

Every saved person (the new creation in Christ doing battle against the flesh) is involved in a daily conflict, but adequate provision is made for victory through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:16-25 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

 

[fhansen]

So, then my question to you: Is faith from God or is it self manifested? I ask under the pretext of a person hearing or having heard the Gospel. In other words: Does a man move his own stone heart to believe, or does God move a man's stone heart to believe? ("stone heart" is very effectual here, so please consider)

Faith is a gift, of grace, and as with any gift we can refuse it, or throw it away at any point later on.

 

[charsan]

Who is responsible for our Sanctification? Both us and God in synergy

 

[Hammster]

Who is responsible for our Sanctification? Both us and God in synergy

So which one is dependent on the other?

 

[charsan]

So which one is dependent on the other?

It's a cooperation

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What's the point?

The true church is God's connection to all of us, from Him indwelling all of us. We are brought together by the trinity of God spreading out that same kind of oneness amongst all the members of the body. God's connectivity to us would be related to sanctification. so I guess that's the point.

 

[Oldmantook]

They were being deceived. Paul never said that they lost their salvation. That’s why they were still brethren.

No, they were deceived and as a result they lost their salvation. So you believe a believer can turn away to follow another gospel and still be saved? Please answer Yes or No. Just how does that work in your world? If a Christian decides to turn away and follow Buddhism is he still saved??
Paul also said: For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Rom 8:13

 

[Sam91]

Who is responsible for our sanctification?

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
— Romans 8:29

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
— Philippians 2:12-13

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
— 1 Corinthians 15:10

Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord, equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
— Hebrews 13:20-21

Philippians 1:6

"And I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."

Hallelujah

 

[Sam91]

So then it’s safe to say that God is responsible. I mean, if He has any love towards me as a Father to a child, He will ensure that I am raised right.

And what was the punishment for being disobedient to parents in the Torah? If it was the parents' responsibility why did they stone the child who didn't honour the parent?

Proverbs says to teach a child in the way they should go, to discipline etc but the responsibility for disobeying falls on the child.

Yes, the Lord sanctifies, calls, teaches, provides, sustains etc.

When someone starts talking about it being God's responsibility it sounds wrong. God is sovereign, who are we to say what he ought and ought not to do?

I think the word should be used with caution because it could also cause blasphemy if people flip your question to talk about our disobedience in a similar way to how I started this post. God is Holy and deserves all Honour and Glory and praise, and I hate to see where God's character is maligned by people making a point.

 

[Hammster]

It's a cooperation

So if I stop, does God stop?

 

[charsan]

So if I stop, does God stop?

I have no idea

 

[Hammster]

No, they were deceived and as a result they lost their salvation. So you believe a believer can turn away to follow another gospel and still be saved? Please answer Yes or No. Just how does that work in your world? If a Christian decides to turn away and follow Buddhism is he still saved??
Paul also said: For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Rom 8:13

It never says that they lost their salvation. That’s why they were still brethren.

 

[Hammster]

And what was the punishment for being disobedient to parents in the Torah? If it was the parents' responsibility why did they stone the child who didn't honour the parent?

Proverbs says to teach a child in the way they should go, to discipline etc but the responsibility for disobeying falls on the child.

Yes, the Lord sanctifies, calls, teaches, provides, sustains etc.

When someone starts talking about it being God's responsibility it sounds wrong. God is sovereign, who are we to say what he ought and ought not to do?

I think the word should be used with caution because it could also cause blasphemy if people flip your question to talk about our disobedience in a similar way to how I started this post. God is Holy and deserves all Honour and Glory and praise, and I hate to see where God's character is maligned by people making a point.

I’m not entirely sure what your point is, unless you are saying that God is only as good as a bad parent.

 

[fhansen]

So if I stop, does God stop?

From Eden on, God does not override the human will. Instead He takes the initiative; He coaxes and draws it into the light, but we can still prefer darkness.

 

[Sam91]

So if I stop, does God stop?

1 John 5
16If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

 

[charsan]

From Eden on, God does not override the human will. Instead he coaxes and draws it into the light, but we can still prefer darkness.

^ This

 

[Sam91]

I’m not entirely sure what your point is, unless you are saying that God is only as good as a bad parent.

Of course I wasn't saying that. That is blasphemy in my opinion.

I think responsibility is the wrong word. A slight re-wording would make this thread less of a stumbling ground.

What is blasphemy? What does it mean to blaspheme? | GotQuestions.org g
"The fact is, every time we do or say something that gives others a false representation of the glory, holiness, authority, and character of God, we commit blasphemy. Every time we misrepresent our position as children of God, we are damaging His reputation. "

Our Perfect Father, is not responsible for our failures. He forgives us, covers us in His righteousness when we repent of evil, teaches us His ways, writes His commandments on our hearts. He enables us, empowers us, gives us all the good things in order to be sanctified.

However, in using the word responsible others may project, in error, that we are not responsible for our failures, they may, in error, blame the LORD. Speaking in terms of responsibilty (inadvertantly) causes blasphemy. It maligns our Father in Heaven.

We alone are responsible for our sin.

James 1:13

 

[Aabbie James]

When someone starts talking about it being God's responsibility it sounds wrong. God is sovereign, who are we to say what he ought and ought not to do?

It's comforting to know that God is in charge of everything, rather than to think that He's not (then the whole universe is a threat). Another way to express sovereignty is to say that Jesus is LORD.

When we say "LORD" we're meaning He's in full control. So to say that Jesus is LORD is to then confess that we are slaves; and that is an affirmation that Jesus is the sovereign over us. Everywhere in Scripture God is designated clearly and revealed to be sovereign. Jesus is LORD and Savior. Jesus is Master; and provides all our needs.

Philippians 4:19 And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.