Who is responsible for our sanctification?

[Yarddog]

So who is responsible then?

Didn't you read what I wrote?

 

[Oldmantook]

Okay. You aren’t going to answer. I’m not going to pursue it.

You are the one not responding. Reread what I wrote. If you did, you did not comprehend what I wrote. How could have the Galatians who were CALLED and predestined turned away from the gospel they once followed? That in itself dispels you false notion.

 

[ChicanaRose]

Who is responsible for getting you into Christ?

God.
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." (John 6:44)

 

[Hammster]

Obviously, if we have to do something it is partially our responsibility. You might be responsible for molding your child's character, but it won't happen unless he cooperates.

Yes, we should be obedient. But God is also responsible for our obedience. Hebrews 12.

 

[Hammster]

In order for sanctification to be realized, both parties must fulfill their roles. Only God, however, can sanctify.

Okay. Can God fulfill His responsibility if I am not fulfilling mine (assuming that I am partly responsible)?

 

[Hammster]

Didn't you read what I wrote?

Yes.

 

[Hammster]

You are the one not responding. Reread what I wrote. If you did, you did not comprehend what I wrote. How could have the Galatians who were CALLED and predestined turned away from the gospel they once followed? That in itself dispels you false notion.

I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
— Galatians 1:6

That’s your argument. And to answer your question, they were disobedient. But who is responsible for our obedience? See Hebrews 12

And this in no way conflicts with Romans 8:29, which you refuse to address.

 

[fhansen]

Okay. Can God fulfill His responsibility if I am not fulfilling mine (assuming that I am partly responsible)?

Yes, He's certainly capable, if that's the way He wants to work things out.

 

[Oldmantook]

Didn't you read what I wrote?

I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
— Galatians 1:6

That’s your argument. And to answer your question, they were disobedient. But who is responsible for our obedience? See Hebrews 12

And this in no way conflicts with Romans 8:29, which you refuse to address.

uh...huh. If you didn't know Rom 8:30 follows Rom 8:29 which provides the context. Didn't you know that??
You are responsible for your own obedience - plain and simple.

 

[Hammster]

Yes, He's certainly capable, if that's the way He wants to work things out.

So then it’s safe to say that God is responsible. I mean, if He has any love towards me as a Father to a child, He will ensure that I am raised right.

 

[Hammster]

uh...huh. If you didn't know Rom 8:30 follows Rom 8:29 which provides the context. Didn't you know that??
You are responsible for your own obedience - plain and simple.

That’s the opposite of what that passage says, but I doubt I will convince you.

 

[Oldmantook]

That’s the opposite of what that passage says, but I doubt I will convince you.

How so, pray tell?

 

[Wordkeeper]

God.
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." (John 6:44)

That is the call, which leads to justification. Those who fear God and do what is right, like Cornelius, are connected to Christ. Again, responsibility is on the person.

 

[fhansen]

So then it’s safe to say that God is responsible. I mean, if He has any love towards me as a Father to a child, He will ensure that I am raised right.

Well, if we're to see His fatherly love and goodness in that light, across the board, then we'd expect no reprobates to exist. Either way, the will is what allows men to face the possibility of eternal torment, as well as the possibility of eternal life with God. So while He's trustworthy and true; we're still the wildcard in it all.

 

[Hammster]

How so, pray tell?

Okay, I’ll give it a shot.

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
— Romans 8:28-30

I’m not going to get into what is meant by foreknew, as I don’t think it’s relevant here. But there is a group that He foreknew, because it says so. That group was predestined for something. What is it? It says right there. They were predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.

That group, the group that is predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, they are called. That calling leads to justification. That justification leads to glorification. There’s no wiggle room in that. As far as Paul is concerned, being predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ leads directly to glorification.

I think we can even see that in Ephesians 2.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
— Ephesians 2:4-6

Paul speaks of this as if it has happened, which makes sense if we are in Christ, and He is seated in Heaven.

We cannot undo what God has determined to do in regards to sanctifying us.

 

[Hammster]

Well, if we're to see His fatherly love and goodness in that light, across the board, then we'd expect no reprobates to exist. Either way, the will is what allows men to face the possibility of eternal torment, as well as the possibility of eternal life with God. So while He's trustworthy and true; we're still the wildcard in it all.

Your assumption is that all are His children. Scripture doesn’t support that. In fact, the opposite is clear.

 

[fhansen]

Your assumption is that all are His children. Scripture doesn’t support that. In fact, the opposite is clear.

He created all, and everything God creates is good. He wants none to perish, loving man with a love we can hardly begin to imagine. This is why it's said that man's sin grieves God. And if God actually predestined any to eternal torment, creating them for that purpose, He'd be worse and less trustworthy than satan anyway.

 

[Oldmantook]

Okay, I’ll give it a shot.

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
— Romans 8:28-30

I’m not going to get into what is meant by foreknew, as I don’t think it’s relevant here. But there is a group that He foreknew, because it says so. That group was predestined for something. What is it? It says right there. They were predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.

That group, the group that is predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, they are called. That calling leads to justification. That justification leads to glorification. There’s no wiggle room in that. As far as Paul is concerned, being predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ leads directly to glorification.

I think we can even see that in Ephesians 2.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
— Ephesians 2:4-6

Paul speaks of this as if it has happened, which makes sense if we are in Christ, and He is seated in Heaven.

We cannot undo what God has determined to do in regards to sanctifying us.

Problem is you completely ignore Gal 1:6 which I have cited repeatedly. Rom 8:28-30 can be summarized as predestined = called = justification = glorification. This is often referred to as the golden chain of salvation because it appears that each link in this chain are connected to one another and cannot be broken. However, if it can be demonstrated that if just one link in this chain is broken, then the sanctification process is broken down and glorification is not guaranteed.
According to Paul's own witness in Gal 1:6, he wrote that those Galatians were CALLED meaning that they were predestined but despite being CALLED they apostatized by following another gospel. Therefore the Galatians were predestined = called but were not justified and not glorified because they did not persevere in the faith through completion of the sanctification process.

 

[Hammster]

He created all, and everything God creates is good. He wants none to perish, loving man with a love we can hardly begin to imagine. This is why it's said that man's sin grieves God. And if God actually predestined any to eternal torment, creating them for that purpose, He'd be worse and less trustworthy than satan anyway.

Well, nice sentiments, but scripture nowhere says that all are His children. Believers are given the right to be called His children, and Jesus said some are the children of the devil.

 

[Hammster]

Problem is you completely ignore Gal 1:6 which I have cited repeatedly. Rom 8:28-30 can be summarized as predestined = called = justification = glorification. This is often referred to as the golden chain of salvation because it appears that each link in this chain are connected to one another and cannot be broken. However, if it can be demonstrated that if just one link in this chain is broken, then the sanctification process is broken down and glorification is not guaranteed.
According to Paul's own witness in Gal 1:6, he wrote that those Galatians were CALLED meaning that they were predestined but despite being CALLED they apostatized by following another gospel. Therefore the Galatians were predestined = called but were not justified and not glorified because they did not persevere in the faith through completion of the sanctification process.

You are reading into the text something that’s not there.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins so that He might rescue us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
— Galatians 1:3-4

He groups them with those of whom God is their Father.

He never says that they have lost their salvation. And he refers to them as brethren.

For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
— Galatians 1:11

This is why context matters.