Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

[Contenders Edge]

How is the New Covenant, which is a better covenant (Hebrews 8:6), to blame for the sins of those who abuse it?

When did I blame the New Covenant for the sins of those who abuse it?

 

[Contenders Edge]

Why is it not relevant to your comment in post #452, and why is it not relevant to the title of this thread, since it make reference to the New Covenant?

.

The discussion of this thread pertains to whether or not the promise of land restoration for Israel is still in effect in the New Covenant. If I were to attempt to respond directly to your latest counter, it would go off topic.

The contents of your counter would be better served in a discussion about what role the law has under the New Covenant as opposed to the Old Covenant and what it means to live under the Law of Grace as opposed to the letter of the law.

As for my comment in post 452, it had to do with whether or not all things associated with the Old Covenant passed away with the Old Covenant. There are an increasing number of those within the Church who would not only claim that the prophecies and promises concerning Israel no longer apply, but that we can live and do as we please without fear of judgment.

That is why it is important that we have a proper understanding what applies to the New Covenant and what does not; what has been carried over into the New Covenant and what has not.

 

[BABerean2]

The discussion of this thread pertains to whether or not the promise of land restoration for Israel is still in effect in the New Covenant. If I were to attempt to respond directly to your latest counter, it would go off topic.

The contents of your counter would be better served in a discussion about what role the law has under the New Covenant as opposed to the Old Covenant and what it means to live under the Law of Grace as opposed to the letter of the law.

As for my comment in post 452, it had to do with whether or not all things associated with the Old Covenant passed away with the Old Covenant. There are an increasing number of those within the Church who would not only claim that the prophecies and promises concerning Israel no longer apply, but that we can live and do as we please without fear of judgment.

That is why it is important that we have a proper understanding what applies to the New Covenant and what does not; what has been carried over into the New Covenant and what has not.

Are you claiming some form of Dual Covenant Theology, based on who a person's parents would be?

Is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel found in the verse below?

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.


Did Paul confirm this fact in the verse below?

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


.

 

[jgr]

When did I blame the New Covenant for the sins of those who abuse it?

There are an increasing number of people within the Church that have justified sinful behavior according to how you are rendering the passages you have cited.

The passages I've cited are New Covenant passages.

What "rendering" justifies sinful behavior, and who is it that has justified such behavior?

This would also be an appropriate time to (re)visit the following question:

How does God identify His Chosen People?

1. By their DNA
2. By their religion
3. By their culture
4. By their faith and obedience in and to His Son

?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="Contenders Edge, post: 74151255, member: 419563"]The discussion of this thread pertains to whether or not the promise of land restoration for Israel is still in effect in the New Covenant. If I were to attempt to respond directly to your latest counter, it would go off topic.

The contents of your counter would be better served in a discussion about what role the law has under the New Covenant as opposed to the Old Covenant and what it means to live under the Law of Grace as opposed to the letter of the law.

As for my comment in post 452, it had to do with whether or not all things associated with the Old Covenant passed away with the Old Covenant. There are an increasing number of those within the Church who would not only claim that the prophecies and promises concerning Israel no longer apply, but that we can live and do as we please without fear of judgment.

That is why it is important that we have a proper understanding what applies to the New Covenant and what does not; what has been carried over into the New Covenant and what has not.[/QUOTE

Sorry if this was answered earlier, but why is it important "that we have a proper understanding what applies... and what does not ..." ?

I mean, if we as His sheep hear His Voice and follow Him, we don't have to know /understand the difference in those sorts of things, do we ?
If so, why ?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Contenders Edge said: ↑
If the re-establishment of Israel as an independent nation is not preparing the way for the complete fulfillment of Ezekiel chapter 37, then what else could it be?

Sorry if this was answered earlier, but why is it important "that we have a proper understanding what applies... and what does not ..." ?
I mean, if we as His sheep hear His Voice and follow Him, we don't have to know /understand the difference in those sorts of things, do we ?
If so, why ?

Luke 19:27.
And Isaiah 22:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18, plus about 20 other prophesies that tell of the virtual demise of the Jews. They have continued in rejection of Jesus for nearly 2000 years. What else can God do? You know that the rejoining of Judah and Israel has not happened yet. Why is it so hard to see that the lost sheep of Israel are now the Christians?
The unbiblical idea of a general Jewish redemption is just another lie upon the 'rapture' theory.

No use looking for the "lost sheep" unless it is to bring them to the Faith and Life of the Christ .........
All Articles - Here a little, there a little - Index

The Two Houses Of Israel - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy

There is a general error among most Christians and a lot of Jews regarding the identity of the children of Israel. Because of a general lack of historical understanding, most Christians believe that the Jews are ALL of the people chosen by God in the Old Testament.
Additionally, many Christians believe that they belong to an unrelated group known biblically as "Gentiles." In this article, we are going to show from the Scriptures that both of these conclusions are founded on incorrect assumptions.
======
*snip*
...........As a whole, only the House of Judah has continued to keep God's Sabbaths, which we saw in Exodus 31 is the sign He gave to distinguish His people from the rest of the nations (or "Gentiles"). Because of this sign, the Jews alone have been recognized as God's covenant people down to this day.
However, Ephraim and the tribes associated with him lost their identity. They were absorbed into the nations to which they were scattered. But these so-called "lost tribes" were not lost to God. He knew then, and knows now, EXACTLY where they are, as the prophet Amos tells us:

AMOS 9:8 "Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are on the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from the face of the earth; yet I will not utterly destroy the House of Jacob," says the LORD.
9 For surely I will command, and will sift the House of Israel among all nations [b'kal hagoyim], as grain is sifted in a sieve; yet not the smallest grain shall fall to the ground."

Most people don't realize that the Bible is only written TO and ABOUT Israel. Other nations are discussed only as they come into contact with or effect God's chosen people. According to Yeshua himself, he was only sent to Israel when he came the first time:

MATTHEW 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.
MATTHEW 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

Here Yeshua tells his disciples that he had other sheep that he was responsible for, in addition to the targeted Jews. Because most Christians aren't familiar with the large number of Old Testament prophecies which speak of the Messiah's responsibility in reuniting the two houses (Israel and Judah), they assume that he was referring to those unrelated people from the nations ("Gentiles") who would thereafter come into the "church."

But to properly understand the Bible, one must base their understanding of the New Testament on the foundation of the Old Testament. When this is done, it is clear that Yeshua was speaking of those who were at that time still scattered among the nations, the lost sheep of Ephraim. These sheep had forgotten their identity and thought they were Gentiles.
But Yeshua knew who (and where) they were, and as the Old Testament prophecies show over and over again, it was his divinely sanctioned job to retrieve them for the Father.

Jer 50:6
“My people have been lost sheep. Their shepherds have led them astray;
They have turned them away on the mountains. They have gone from mountain to hill;
They have forgotten their resting place.

John 11:48 "....shall come the Romans and take away of us, place and nation"

JOHN 11:
47 Then the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered a council and said, "What shall we do? For this man works many signs.
48 If we let him alone like this, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation."
49 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish."
51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation [Judah], 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad [i.e., the northern kingdom of Israel]. 53 Then, from that day on, they plotted to put Him to death. 54 Therefore Jesus no longer walked openly among the Jews, but went from there into the country near the wilderness, to a city called Ephraim, and there remained with His disciples.

Yeshua didn't just die for the Jews, but also for those "children of God who were scattered abroad." Anyone who knows the history of Israel as revealed in the Old Testament knows that those children who were scattered abroad (by God Himself) were the lost House of Israel.
It's interesting (and prophetic) that right after this prophecy was given, Yeshua went into a city called Ephraim, which is also the symbolic name for the children of God who had been scattered into all nations.

Earlier, we read in the Tanakh from the prophetic book of Hosea about how God would punish the House of Israel (Samaria) for their sins. We saw that Hosea's three children born to him by Gomer were symbolically named to describe the fate of Ephraim: Jezreel ("God sows") described God's future sowing of the House of Israel throughout all the nations; Lo-Ruhamah ("no mercy") showed that God was not going to have mercy on Israel for a period of time; and Lo-Ammi ("not my people") revealed that those from the House of Israel would not be known as God's people for a time
==============================

 

[Contenders Edge]

You are correct. The "he" is connected to "the prince that shall come".

And the only individual identified as a prince anywhere in the passage is Messiah the Prince, previously in verse 25.

Thus, by virtue of the word "prince" in common, "Messiah the Prince" is the antecedent of "the prince that shall come", who in turn is the antecedent of "he" as you've observed.

Note also that the difference in capitalization, i.e. (P)(p)rince, is not significant. Christ is identified as a (p)rince in Revelation 1:5 KJV. And the original 1611 KJV capitalized (P)rince in both verses 25 and 26, signifying that it was to be understood as Messiah in both instances.

The above inter-verse connections are made grammatically via antecedents.

And the result is also tenable contextually.

Messiah the Prince did indeed come, fulfilling Daniel's prophecy, at the appointed time.

And the people of the prince did also indeed fulfill Daniel's prophecy.

The people of the prince (Daniel 9:26) refers to the Roman armies which were Messiah's agents and instruments to accomplish the judgment and destruction which had been prophesied. God's use of such instruments, and His characterization of them as "mine" even though pagan, can be found in several OT instances e.g.:

Jeremiah 25
9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the Lord, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

Jeremiah 43
10 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will send and take Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will set his throne upon these stones that I have hid; and he shall spread his royal pavilion over them.

God characterizes the pagan Nebuchadnezzar as "my servant" in using him and his armies against Judah and Egypt.

In the same way as Nebuchadnezzar, though a pagan, was God's servant in executing His judgment, so too were the pagan Roman armies Messiah's people in accomplishing His purposes.

In addition, the Jews themselves, as the historical people of Prince Messiah, were equally responsible for their destruction and suffering. Their own actions in defiling and destroying the buildings and temple prior to the Roman invasion are described by Josephus:

The Lamentation of Josephus
War 5.1.4 19-20

The darts that were thrown by the engines [of the seditious factions] came with that force, that they went over all the buildings and the Temple itself, and fell upon the priests and those that were about the sacred offices; insomuch that many persons who came thither with great zeal from the ends of the earth to offer sacrifices at this celebrated place, which was esteemed holy by all mankind, fell down before their own sacrifices themselves, and sprinkled that altar which was venerable among all men, both Greeks and barbarians, with their own blood. The dead bodies of strangers were mingled together with those of their own country, and those of profane persons with those of the priests, and the blood of all sorts of dead carcasses stood in lakes in the holy courts themselves.
Oh most wretched city, what misery so great as this didst thou suffer from the Romans, when they came to purify thee from thy internal pollutions! For thou couldst be no longer a place fit for God, nor couldst thou longer survive, after thou hadst been a sepulchre for the bodies of thine own people, and hast made the Holy House itself a burying-place in this civil war of thine. Yet mayst thou again grow better, if perchance thou wilt hereafter appease the anger of that God who is the author of thy destruction.

As seen, Josephus recognizes the Jews as complicit agents of their own destruction, and that destruction as divinely orchestrated.

Contemporary Jewish historians concur:
"The scene was now set for the revolt's final catastrophe. Outside Jerusalem, Roman troops prepared to besiege the city; inside the city, the Jews were engaged in a suicidal civil war. In later generations, the rabbis hyperbolically declared that the revolt's failure, and the Temple's destruction, was due not to Roman military superiority but to causeless hatred (sinat khinam) among the Jews (Yoma 9b). While the Romans would have won the war in any case, the Jewish civil war both hastened their victory and immensely increased the casualties. One horrendous example: In expectation of a Roman siege, Jerusalem's Jews had stockpiled a supply of dry food that could have fed the city for many years. But one of the warring Zealot factions burned the entire supply, apparently hoping that destroying this "security blanket" would compel everyone to participate in the revolt. The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any the Romans inflicted."

The people, both Roman and Jewish, of the prince Messiah who was to come, were Messiah's agents and instruments in accomplishing His purposes of judgment and destruction upon those who had rejected Him.

While there is no doubt that God had called Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon his servant in the sense that he was used as God’s instrument to bring judgment upon the inhabitants of Judah who had become exceedingly wicked.


Often times when God refers to someone as His servant, that person is a follower of His, but on occasion, He will call someone who does not follow Him but yet uses to fulfill a purpose His servant in the sense of being a vessel in His use, yet not one of His people. Yet what is interesting in regards to Nebuchadnezzar is that he seemed to be aware, or at least somewhat aware, of God’s hand in appointing Him to subjugate Jerusalem to his rule. (2 Chr. 36:13) Nebuzaradan, a captain in in King Nebuchadnezzar’s army was fully aware that Jerusalem and Judah were given into their hands because the Jews had forsaken God and had rejected His law. (Jer. 40:1-3)


But God never called the Babylonians His people. They, on the whole, were pagans.


With the exception of Israel whom He set aside for Himself, God has never called any nation who does not know or worship Him His people. Those whom God calls His people, apart from His earthly people, are those who have embraced Him through Christ.


In that same sense, the Romans who destroyed the Temple could never be called the people of the Messiah. The Messiah would have never called on His followers to destroy the Jewish Temple. He never desired destruction upon them. He would rather that they had come to repentance and He still does today.


At roughly the same time, the followers of Christ were being persecuted throughout the Roman empire. That does not sound like something a nation or kingdom who is called a people of God would do.


Furthermore, the events that follow afterward in Daniel 9:27 can never be attributed to Jesus. To sum it up, Jesus never makes a covenant with anyone and then reneges on it, nor would He destroy a pre-existing covenant after giving formal recognition to it. That appears to be the case with the one who confirms this covenant, of which verse 27 speaks, which apparently needs to be renewed after a certain period of time and then is canceled half way through its tenure by the one who confirmed it.


That does not sound like any covenant Jesus has ever made or would ever make with anyone.​

 

[Contenders Edge]

The passages I've cited are New Covenant passages.

What "rendering" justifies sinful behavior, and who is it that has justified such behavior?

This would also be an appropriate time to (re)visit the following question:

How does God identify His Chosen People?

1. By their DNA
2. By their religion
3. By their culture
4. By their faith and obedience in and to His Son

?

First of all, why are you even asking me that when you yourself already appeared to have concurred that there are those out there who do justify sinful living in the name of the Law of Grace in your last counter response post as follows, in which you also accused me (and wrongfully I might add) of blaming the New Covenant for the sins of those who use it to justify sinful living?



(“How is the New Covenant, which is a better covenant (Hebrews 8:6), to blame for the sins of those who abuse it?”)




And as to your second question, that you even are even revisiting it suggests you already know what my answer is to that and it is going to be the same as before:

The faithfulness and devotion to God by their forefathers as it pertains to His earthly people. God has not dealt with any other nation or people the same way He has dealt with and continues to deal with Israel. But in order for them to also become His Heavenly people, it is only through Christ, just as it is for everyone else.

But that Israel has been given a certain set of promises as it pertains to them as a nation and preservation as a people cannot be denied when we understand what those promises are.

 

[Contenders Edge]

What scripture teaches this?

Several. And here is just a few: Jeremiah 31:35-37, 33:20-26, Malachi 3:6, Romans 9:27 and chapter 11.

 

[Contenders Edge]

Luke 19:27.
And Isaiah 22:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18, plus about 20 other prophesies that tell of the virtual demise of the Jews.
They have continued in rejection of Jesus for nearly 2000 years. What else can God do?
Only a remnant will be saved; Romans 9:27, Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:7-9

You know that the rejoining of Judah and Israel has not happened yet. Why is it so hard to see that the lost sheep of Israel are now the Christians?
The unbiblical idea of a general Jewish redemption is just another lie upon the 'rapture' theory.

That a remnant of the nation of Israel will remain who finally receives Jesus to be their Savior and Lord does not constitute as a virtual demise of the Jewish people. Granted there will come a time when many of them will die in a purging process that God brings to purge from His earthly nation all the wickedness and ungodliness that exists in it, when it is done, the remnant that remains will still be large enough to remain a viable people and nation.


“You know that the rejoining of Judah and Israel has not happened yet. Why is it so hard to see that the lost sheep of Israel are now the Christians?”


The last I looked, Israel is a unified nation serving as evidence that the house of Israel and Judah have been rejoined, and when were Christians ever called the lost sheep of Israel?

 

[keras]

The last I looked, Israel is a unified nation serving as evidence that the house of Israel and Judah have been rejoined, and when were Christians ever called the lost sheep of Israel?

Jesus often called His followers; His sheep. He said; other sheep I have, not of this flock.....
This flock; the Jews, of whom just a very small number became Christians, as it remains today.
You explain to us who those other sheep are.

It shows a serious misreading or having never read Ezekiel 37 properly, to think that Israel and Judah have already rejoined.
The Jewish State of Israel, is no more a unified nation that any other. In fact; it seems that the citizens of Israel are more diverse and intermixed than most nations.

 

[jgr]

First of all, why are you even asking me that when you yourself already appeared to have concurred that there are those out there who do justify sinful living in the name of the Law of Grace in your last counter response post as follows, in which you also accused me (and wrongfully I might add) of blaming the New Covenant for the sins of those who use it to justify sinful living?

Are those who justify sinful living in the name of the Law of Grace, in compliance with, or in violation of, that Law?

Is the Law of Grace at fault because there are those who justify sinful living in its name?

Is the New Covenant at fault because it has revoked the Old? (Hebrews 8:13)

The answers are self-evident.

The faithfulness and devotion to God by their forefathers as it pertains to His earthly people.

How does God identify "His earthly people"?

Which of the four characteristics in post 464 does one need to possess to be recognized as one of "His earthly people" by Him?

 

[Contenders Edge]

Are you claiming some form of Dual Covenant Theology, based on who a person's parents would be?

Is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel found in the verse below?

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.


Did Paul confirm this fact in the verse below?

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


.

I am claiming a consistent, unchanging, and faithful-in-keeping promises God doctrine.



“Did Paul confirm this fact in the verse below?

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”



Moses referred to the seed as being many to whom the promised land was given as an everlasting possession. (Ex. 32:13) Now was Paul contradicting Moses or was Moses contradicting Abraham? How do we reconcile Ex. 32:13 with Gal. 3:16 apart from Christ the seed extending the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant to the Jewish people in the day that they as a nation and people finally welcome Him as their Messiah?

 

[BABerean2]

I am claiming a consistent, unchanging, and faithful-in-keeping promises God doctrine.



“Did Paul confirm this fact in the verse below?

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”



Moses referred to the seed as being many to whom the promised land was given as an everlasting possession. (Ex. 32:13) Now was Paul contradicting Moses or was Moses contradicting Abraham? How do we reconcile Ex. 32:13 with Gal. 3:16 apart from Christ the seed extending the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant to the Jewish people in the day that they as a nation and people finally welcome Him as their Messiah?

How do we reconcile the fact that God used a group of people to produce the Messiah?
The answer is found below.

The risen Savior revealed on the road to Emaus the scriptures that are about Him.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

How many books of the Old Testament would include the books of Moses, and "all" the prophets?


.

 

[Contenders Edge]

Jesus often called His followers; His sheep. He said; other sheep I have, not of this flock.....
This flock; the Jews, of whom just a very small number became Christians, as it remains today.
You explain to us who those other sheep are.

It shows a serious misreading or having never read Ezekiel 37 properly, to think that Israel and Judah have already rejoined.
The Jewish State of Israel, is no more a unified nation that any other. In fact; it seems that the citizens of Israel are more diverse and intermixed than most nations.

What I can tell you is that the sheep that Jesus said He had, whether of the Jews or of other people, were not lost sheep because they were already following Him and if the citizenry of Israel appears mixed and diverse, is that not because they have emigrated there from various other nations? God did say that He would regather Israel from all the nations throughout which they were dispersed. (Jer. 23:3, Ezek. 11:17, 20:41, 28:25, 36:24, 37:23)

 

[Contenders Edge]

How do we reconcile the fact that God used a group of people to produce the Messiah?
The answer is found below.

The risen Savior revealed on the road to Emaus the scriptures that are about Him.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

How many books of the Old Testament would include the books of Moses, and "all" the prophets?


.

While I do not dispute that the cited passages pertain to the suffering of Christ, your response is nothing more than a red herring since it does not directly address the post to which it responds.

 

[Contenders Edge]

Are those who justify sinful living in the name of the Law of Grace, in compliance with, or in violation of, that Law?

Is the Law of Grace at fault because there are those who justify sinful living in its name?

Is the New Covenant at fault because it has revoked the Old? (Hebrews 8:13)

The answers are self-evident.



How does God identify "His earthly people"?

Which of the four characteristics in post 464 does one need to possess to be recognized as one of "His earthly people" by Him?

“Are those who justify sinful living in the name of the Law of Grace, in compliance with, or in violation of, that Law?”


You tell me which it is.


“Is the Law of Grace at fault because there are those who justify sinful living in its name?

Is the New Covenant at fault because it has revoked the Old?” (Hebrews 8:13)



Where would you place the blame? I know I would not lay the blame on the Law of Grace or the New Covenant despite your persistence in insinuating that I have done that.



How does God identify "His earthly people"?


"Which of the four characteristics in post 464 does one need to possess to be recognized as one of "His earthly people" by Him?”


Do you even know the difference between God’s earthly people, His heavenly people, and those who are both?

 

[jgr]

Where would you place the blame? I know I would not lay the blame on the Law of Grace or the New Covenant despite your persistence in insinuating that I have done that.

Glad to see it. I fully agree.

Do you even know the difference between God’s earthly people, His heavenly people, and those who are both?

How can anyone know the difference without knowing the identifying characteristics?

I know of only one People of God.

Scripture knows of only one People of God.

It is those of faith and obedience in and to Him and His Son.

Two identifying characteristics.

No others.

 

[BABerean2]

Moses referred to the seed as being many to whom the promised land was given as an everlasting possession. (Ex. 32:13)

What does the author of the Book of Hebrews say about the land promise?
Is it an "everlasting" land promise?
What happens to this earth in 2 Peter 3:10-13? Is this earth "everlasting"?


Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.


Does God have two separate peoples in the verse below?

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

.

 

[keras]

What I can tell you is that the sheep that Jesus said He had, whether of the Jews or of other people, were not lost sheep because they were already following Him and if the citizenry of Israel appears mixed and diverse, is that not because they have emigrated there from various other nations? God did say that He would regather Israel from all the nations throughout which they were dispersed. (Jer. 23:3, Ezek. 11:17, 20:41, 28:25, 36:24, 37:23)

Actually, CE; I do agree with much of what you say. but you are quite wrong in thinking that the Jewish State of Israel is the only Israel.
Jesus came to save the lost House of Israel. If they were and are now, just the Jewish people, then He failed in His mission. But He did not fail and we Christians are the proof of His success.
Whether by actual descent from the ten Northern tribes or by faith, becoming spiritually a child of God; faithful Christians are all the real Israel of God.
The belief of a general Jewish redemption is simply not found in the Bible, it is a lie to suit the 'rapture' fable.

God is yet to regather His people into all of the holy Land, what has happened so far is a set up to commence all the prophesied end time events.