Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

[CharismaticLady]

Where in scripture is it said that justification is the cleansing of sin?

1 John 1:9.

Justification is God making us just. He makes us just by taking away our sin.

1 John 3:5 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

It is not progressive.

 

[def]

Isn't it a bit of a dichotomy when verse 9 says we are cleansed of all sin, to go and say you still have sin? Did Jesus lie?

Verse 9 says 'cleanse us from all unrighteousness', not cleanse us from all sin. I take it too mean that unrighteous work is removed and God gives the work that He has prepared for us, such work is righteous and comes by faith.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Verse 9 says 'cleanse us from all unrighteousness', not cleanse us from all sin. I take it too mean that unrighteous work is removed and God gives the work that He has prepared for us, such work is righteous and comes by faith.

1 John 3:5. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

 

[Phil W]

Yes... That was His charge against the Pharisees. The Pharisees placed obedience above MERCY!

Sorry, you missed the point.
Did Jesus ever once say obedience wasn't necessary?

We all desire to obey.

Were that true, all would be obedient to God.
God has given us everything we need to manifest Him on earth now.

Those that claim they do... negate that Christ died because we can’t. Bull dozing over plain scripture to exalt one’s salvational state above others that are hurting is not a servant heart.

Those who claim they do...manifest their love of God on earth and the efficacy of Jesus' death and resurrection to a fallen world that is in servitude to sin.

This is written in Blood by Jesus Christ.

As is this..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)

 

[Grip Docility]

Sorry, you missed the point.
Did Jesus ever once say obedience wasn't necessary?


Were that true, all would be obedient to God.
God has given us everything we need to manifest Him on earth now.


Those who claim they do...manifest their love of God on earth and the efficacy of Jesus' death and resurrection to a fallen world that is in servitude to sin.


As is this..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)

You have missed what New Covenant iniquity is.

 

[Phil W]

His death is the escape! He saves me from the wretched man I am! I will not surrender to exaltation of Self! I surrender to Christ, Alone!

A servant of sin cannot serve two masters. (John 8:32-34, Matt 6:24)

He is my hope and the hope of many more like me. May whited tombs cease.
And profess my perpetual need for Him!

I pray that one day you will realize the freedom in Christ that I so rejoice in.

 

[CharismaticLady]

A servant of sin cannot serve two masters. (John 8:32-34, Matt 6:24)


I pray that one day you will realize the freedom in Christ that I so rejoice in.

Good! Now work on cultivating the fruit of the Spirit. 1 Cor. 13:2

 

[CharismaticLady]

You have missed what New Covenant iniquity is.

Okay, I'll bite. LOL What is New Covenanat iniquity, Grip?

 

[def]

1 John 3:5. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

You need to read the next two verses. Better still to appreciate the theme of 1 John.

1 John teaches about the sons / children of God, those who follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, and in doing so, fulfil the law (no sin). When one follows the leading of the Spirit, work is involved, and that is spelled out in verse 7.

See how John addresses the opening and closing statements. In essence, 1 John teaches the Beatitude, 'Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the sons of God.'

 

[CharismaticLady]

You need to read the next two verses. Better still to appreciate the theme of 1 John.

1 John teaches about the sons / children of God, those who follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, and in doing so, fulfil the law (no sin). When one follows the leading of the Spirit, work is involved, and that is spelled out in verse 7.

See how John addresses the opening and closing statements. In essence, 1 John teaches the Beatitude, 'Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the sons of God.'

Not sure what you think I believe. John is my favorite apostle and I know what he's saying.

 

[Phil W]

I don't mean it to sound progressive, but use it as in Romans 3. I have stated before that sanctification in scripture is in the past tense, meaning happening at the beginning.

Why don't you say "happened at the beginning"?
You give it an ongoing flavor that cashes with "past tense".

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

I see that we are justified by His grace "through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"...so how do we get "in Christ Jesus"?
Rom 6:3-6 says how...by baptism into Christ and into His death, where the blood of Christ is applied to us at out partaking in the crucifixion of Christ.
What does the application of blood accomplish?
Sanctification.

 

[Phil W]

You have missed what New Covenant iniquity is.

Sin is sin.
"All unrighteousness is sin." (1 John 5:17)

 

[CharismaticLady]

Why don't you say "happened at the beginning"?
You give it an ongoing flavor that cashes with "past tense".


I see that we are justified by His grace "through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"...so how do we get "in Christ Jesus"?
Rom 6:3-6 says how...by baptism into Christ and into His death, where the blood of Christ is applied to us at out partaking in the crucifixion of Christ.
What does the application of blood accomplish?
Sanctification.

Okay, "happened at the beginning." Happy?

 

[Grip Docility]

Okay, I'll bite. LOL What is New Covenanat iniquity, Grip?

Matthew 9:13

 

[Grip Docility]

A servant of sin cannot serve two masters. (John 8:32-34, Matt 6:24)


I pray that one day you will realize the freedom in Christ that I so rejoice in.

I hope you realize 1 John 1:8-10, Romans 2:1
And James 2:8-10 are real.

 

[Grip Docility]

Sin is sin.
"All unrighteousness is sin." (1 John 5:17)

Luke 18:9

 

[Wordkeeper]

You are 'mixing your metaphors" by using the 1 Cor 12 verse.
Sin and weakness are two very different things, with two very different 'rewards'.


Can't you tell Paul is referring to a physical ailment of some sort, and not to sin?

When Satan is involved, sin is the issue. Moreover, grace is the cure for sin, not illness.

 

[Danthemailman]

1 John 1:8 & 10 are written regarding those from verse 6...those who SAY they have fellowship with God but walk in darkness.

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In verse 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness/hates his brother" is connected to "children of the devil."

They are the ones who cannot say they have no sin.

1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. *Such people are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

Those from verse 7 have had all their sins washed away by the blood of Christ.
If they remain in the light, they can say they have no sin.

1 John 1:7 reads - But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, (descriptive of believers) we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. *Nothing is mentioned about "remain" in the light or being sinless 100% of the time. 1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

*If believers were sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time (exactly like Jesus Christ) then this verse would be superfluous.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I hope you realize 1 John 1:8-10, Romans 2:1
And James 2:8-10 are real.

Grip, my friend, think about this.

Matthew 9:13 and 1 John 1:8 and 10 are about the same type person. Jesus is not calling the self-righteous, but the humble. One group believes in their own righteousness, the other group knows they need Jesus to save them.

 

[Grip Docility]

Grip, my friend, think about this.

Matthew 9:13 and 1 John 1:8 and 10 are about the same type person. Jesus is not calling the self-righteous, but the humble. One group believes in their own righteousness, the other group knows they need Jesus to save them.

1 John 1:8-10 is towards the Humble to keep them humble and protect them from the deciept of the self righteous.