Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

[Phil W]

Just as the Israelites had to willingly apply the blood to the door frame, Christ's blood must be applied to us symbolically.

Symbolically?
His blood is applied 'actually' when we are "immersed" into Christ and into His death.
We partake in His suffering on the cross. (1 Peter 4:1)

 

[Phil W]

Context is on my side. (Hear to tune of “time is on my side”)

Philippians 3:1-3

NO Confidence in the flesh.

I can certainly agree with that...as you have written a direct thought.

 

[Grip Docility]

That POV seems to go against Rom 3:25..."Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"
More sin after repentance from sin shows the repentance from sin was a lie.
You can't forge a relationship with God that is based on a lie.

Context is being completely discarded in this type of explanation. One knows that a simple view of the verse in context will discount the claim made in the above quoted words.

One can literally click “view in context” from the site and see that Righteousness is the imputed Life Of Jesus Christ to the (Godless) as Romans also says! Romans 3:20-22

Romans 4:1-6 follows and completes the hand with credited Righteousness, which shows future forgiveness and it even goes on to say all ... oh... just read it.

This is getting more obvious by the post.

Romans 3

 

[Grip Docility]

Romans 4:5 is impossible to twist!!!!

 

[Phil W]

Acts of the Apostles 8:37 ???? What?!?

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
The Ethiopian had faith in, among other things, baptism for the remission of sins.
But one act cannot be used to ascertain a future salvation...ie, Phygellus and Hermogenes. (2 Tim 1:15)

 

[Grip Docility]

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
The Ethiopian had faith in, among other things, baptism for the remission of sins.
But one act cannot be used to ascertain a future salvation...ie, Phygellus and Hermogenes. (2 Tim 1:15)

These words are in direct opposition to Paul!

Acts of the Apostles 16:30-31 !!!

Faith that SAVES! Is one willing to deny the words of Paul?

Should Paul have said ; “Almost Saved... Partially Saved”?!?

 

[Phil W]

Context is being completely discarded in this type of explanation. One knows that a simple view of the verse in context will discount the claim made in the above quoted words.

One can literally click “view in context” from the site and see that Righteousness is the imputed Life Of Jesus Christ to the (Godless) as Romans also says! Romans 3:20-22

Romans 4:1-6 follows and completes the hand with credited Righteousness, which shows future forgiveness and it even goes on to say all ... oh... just read it.

This is getting more obvious by the post.

Romans 3

If, as you say, the context shows an imputed righteous life, where would more sin come from?
Why would someone who is made righteous turn from what Jesus died to give them?
That doesn't sound like the faith I am familiar with.

 

[Grip Docility]

If, as you say, the context shows an imputed righteous life, where would more sin come from?
Why would someone who is made righteous turn from what Jesus died to give them?
That doesn't sound like the faith I am familiar with.

You have said this correct!

 

[Phil W]

Romans 4:5 is impossible to twist!!!!

Yep, the Mosaic Law's works won't save anyone.

 

[Grip Docility]

Yep, the Mosaic Law's works won't save anyone.

Bow down before the one you serve! Will you wear the provided robe of Christ to the wedding feast with me?

I’m sincere. Will you?

 

[Phil W]

These words are in direct opposition to Paul!
Acts of the Apostles 16:30-31 !!!
Faith that SAVES! Is one willing to deny the words of Paul?
Should Paul have said ; “Almost Saved... Partially Saved?!?

Do you know that the jailer held his faith till the end of his life?
Paul provided the way of Christ, but it is in our hands to follow it.

 

[Phil W]

Bow down before the one you serve! Will you wear the provided robe of Christ to the wedding feast with me?
I’m sincere. Will you?

I will if I endure till the end.

 

[Grip Docility]

Do you know that the jailer held his faith till the end of his life?
Paul provided the way of Christ, but it is in our hands to follow it.

He either did, or Scripture lied.

We fail, God doesn’t! Isn’t it time you allowed that mustard seed to become the massive tree God wills it to be?

 

[Grip Docility]

I will if I endure till the end.

If you? You have that much confidence in your Carnal endurance?

I don’t say I’m saved based on me. I know I’m Saved because of WHO He Is!

Where’s your mustard seed, brother? Isn’t it time your faith grew so tall, it offers relief to others?

 

[bcbsr]

Can you show me an example of a person who has saving faith in Scripture?

Rom 4:1-3 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about— but not before God. What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

Rom 4:18-22 Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be." Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead— since he was about a hundred years old— and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness."

 

[BNR32FAN]

The cursed fig tree is the context.

Romans 11 is imperative to read. We agree to disagree on this matter.

Justification means Justified.

The branches in Romans 11 were justified. They were grafted in by God and yet they can still be cut off. Forgive me for saying so but you seem to be reluctant to explain in detail because you know where the discussion will lead.

 

[bcbsr]

That is a person who is walking in the Spirit full blast. But Paul warns us to not grieve the Spirit, and especially not quench the Spirit. He also warns us that if you go back to committing willful sins, you could go all the way back to perdition. Jesus has given us His Spirit to keep us from sinning, but has given us the responsibility to walk therein. We only have assurance if you abide in Jesus and keep His commandments through to the end. If we take this responsibility lightly, that is when Satan blinds us to the warnings.

Actually if you read it more carefully it says, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

Again "because he has been born of God." is the explanation as to why such a person does not continue to sin.

 

[Grip Docility]

The branches in Romans 11 were justified. They were grafted in by God and yet they can still be cut off. Forgive me for saying so but you seem to be reluctant to explain in detail because you know where the discussion will lead.

I’m a simple guy... at the end of the day. I have this ridiculous notion that if I place my heart in the hands of the King of Kings, that He will hold onto it, renew it daily and provide anything it lacks.

I have this unseen hope that He, Jesus, is stronger than my weakness, wiser than my folly and Perfect while I am weak and full of failure.

I have zero confidence in myself, and ALL my confidence in God.

I asked Jesus to take my life into His hands, so I would come home one day.

I have this insane notion that He won’t fail. I have this odd Confidence that God won’t fail me, even if I fail Him.

This confidence is so great, I have it for more than just myself.

I wonder what foolishness placed such drunken thoughts in my childlike mind?

 

[Wordkeeper]

As nobody's judgement has yet occurred, no, I can't show an example of a person who has saving faith in the NT.
Stephen would be a good bet though.

Let's study the process of salvation.

God sends people into crisis so that they can see their situation. God sent Joseph and Israel into Egypt by creating (!) a famine so that her situation of serving mammon is shown it its extreme manifestation: she is working for treasure that rusts and perishes.

Israel cries out for deliverance, a change.

God sends Moses who tells Israel to come out of Egypt. To convince her that God can change things for the better, Moses uses the signs and wonders he had been given.

Israel leaves Egypt and follows God. God can feed Israel but He intentionally causes a food and water shortage. When they are alarmed, God provides these necessities, using signs and wonders. This is so they will stop working for treasure that rusts and serve Him for treasure that never perishes, by becoming a blessing to the world. Be born again. This is what Israel has been created for.

From this we see that baptism, the agreement to leave mammon, leads to God demolishing all the things that holds a believer captive to the world. Any reasonable person would have been convinced, and repented in ashes for doubting God, if they had seen the miracles that had been performed in her, but Israel was scared about resigning from her job in Egypt, and becoming totally dependent on God. Out of a million Jews over 20, only Joshua broke away cleanly, and decided to depend only on God, just like the lilies of the field depend only on God, and are dressed even better than Solomon. He really was born again, had a new mindset.

Although they drank and ate from the same spiritual source, Christ the Rock, what they saw did not benefit them, and God was not pleased with them and their bones littered the wilderness of Sinai.

These are similar to the patterns seen in the lives of Abraham, Moses, Peter with positive results and Korah, Judas, Ananias and Sapphira, etc with negative outcomes.

Let’s examine the case of the thief on the cross.

He knew about Jesus: that he was innocent, that he would come into His kingdom, that He would reward those loyal to Him. Apparently he would have learnt this before he was crucified: back in the prison, or further back when he was an active thief. Whether he became a follower or wanted to become a follower, he was arrested, and it didn’t make a difference to the authorities.

Did he leave Egypt? Egypt is selfish living. He did not join in the mocking of the others who were pandering to the relief they got by cursing everybody they could see, who got selfish pleasure from rebuking.

Did he switch to serving God for treasure that lasts? He spoke good things about Jesus, which is what the criteria was for those who were for God.

Mark 9
38John said to Him, “Teacher, we saw someone else driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.” 39But Jesus replied, “Do not stop him. No onewho performs a miracle in My name can turn around and speak evil of Me. 40For whoever is not against us is for us.

It seems that the thief had saving faith, but the New Covenant is a superior covenant.

What did the thief lack? Was it justifying faith or sanctifying faith or glorifying faith?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I’m a simple guy... at the end of the day. I have this ridiculous notion that if I place my heart in the hands of the King of Kings, that He will hold onto it, renew it daily and provide anything it lacks.

I have this unseen hope that He, Jesus, is stronger than my weakness, wiser than my folly and Perfect while I am weak and full of failure.

I have zero confidence in myself, and ALL my confidence in God.

I asked Jesus to take my life into His hands, so I would come home one day.

I have this insane notion that He won’t fail. I have this odd Confidence that God won’t fail me, even if I fail Him.

This confidence is so great, I have it for more than just myself.

I wonder what foolishness placed such drunken thoughts in my childlike mind?

What your saying is that every branch in Christ will eventually bear fruit. That sounds really great and all but if you never make the choice commit to doing any good works you never will. We have to work in cooperation with His guidance in order for it to happen. A person can wait around all their life not willing to do any good works and hoping they will one day want to do good works and all it takes is some effort on his part to make it happen. If everyone who is in Christ will eventually bear fruit then John 15 wouldn’t even be in the Bible. Jesus would’ve never gave that message.