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Binary shift... Spirit taught... In or Out of HIM. One says hooray Me! The Other says Hooray God, OH NO, me!
One of these went home “Justified”.
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Again, the Gospel is not about going to heaven because of the cross, but being able to live a meaningful life because of the cross. How is it that a nomad like Abraham worried about this issue, when highly educated 21st century denizens do not. Prolly coz they had less distractions, then, distraction like cable TV and Starbucks. Note how Paul targets the Stoics and the Epicureans of the Areopagus on Mars Hill.
There's a difference between willing and choosing? Or one can exist without the other?
They can say no to His intervention. That's the role man's will can play; man is not passive in justification and salvation.
Ok? And what does "grace evealed by Christ" mean? And I'd submit that knowledge is what it's all about. We hear first. We respond by believing and being justified secondly.
It's not either/or; it's both/and
If the gospel was not about the cross - what was the point of Christ's death? LOL
I can have a "meaningful life" in a million things not related to the atonement at all. Why was Abraham concerned about God at all? Because Jesus was the lamb slain from the foundations of the world.
Besides, don't you think Abraham's distractions were a little more primal than cable TV and Starbucks? I rather like living in a world were someone else makes my clothes, grows my food and assembles my "horseless carriage". Yet I've done my part in society fighting wars and taking care of disabled people living in group homes.
You can post a dozen of those down to me if you like.
I say Hooray God. Before I was born again of the Spirit, I had no strength to stay away from my boss, a married man. Talk about sexual sin! Yikes. I think sexual sin is the strongest sin there is to try to overcome, and I just couldn't. It was the strongest sin in my nature. I couldn't get enough of him.
One night I repented and said King David's prayer that I had memorized. "Create in my a clean heart, O Lord, and renew a right spirit within me." etc. I meant it and God came inside me and stayed. My nature changed overnight, and I could stay away from my boss from then on, even when he tried to get me back.
So all this hogwash that Arminians are all "my will" is swill. The truth of our will is that God's will turned my will into His. Now we have the same will.
You are confusing justification with sanctification.
Oscarr... correct me if I’m wrong...
BNR32FAN... Oscarr isn’t admonishing or saying you are way off target... but He’s reassuring you that Christ has fully justified you and you are fully SAVED. He’s reassuring you that Sanctification is a process that God does... over time, as a result of Faith in Him that is brought Faith to Faith by Him.
In other words... Ditch the John 15 idea, keep the Love and trust that God, now, has you grasped, you’re not grasping God.
In other words... Enjoy your Sabbath Rest (Hebrews 4... AKA Jesus)
Stop fearing being thrown into the fire! Perfect Love casts out ALL fear and Sibling in Him... God is Perfect Love.
My mere opinion.
Sanctification is a process that God does thru our cooperation. If not then in John 15:2 the branches who are in Christ would not be cut off from the vine for failing to bear fruit and in John 15:6 it would be IMPOSSIBLE for someone to fail to abide in Christ. Why would Jesus warm His 11 faithful apostles of the consequences of failing to abide if sanctification is an automatic result of justification? In both verse 2 and verse 6 the branches are believers who are in Christ. In verse 2 Jesus specifically says they are “in Me” in verse 6 a person cannot fail to abide in Christ if they were never in Christ to begin with.
Brother, I Love you in Jesus Christ. I agree to disagree with you.
IMO Justification is God Saving Sinners.
Sanctification is God spending a lifetime to teach those Saved Sinners how to Love....
1 Thessalonians 3:12
Sanctification is a process that God does thru our cooperation. If not then in John 15:2 the branches who are in Christ would not be cut off from the vine for failing to bear fruit and in John 15:6 it would be IMPOSSIBLE for someone to fail to abide in Christ. Why would Jesus warm His 11 faithful apostles of the consequences of failing to abide if sanctification is an automatic result of justification? In both verse 2 and verse 6 the branches are believers who are in Christ. In verse 2 Jesus specifically says they are “in Me” in verse 6 a person cannot fail to abide in Christ if they were never in Christ to begin with.
I agree, except I do believe sanctification is back to back with justification. Justification is the cleansing of all your past sins and looks backward. Sanctification is setting us apart for good works, and looks forward. Now whether one calls the "process" sanctification or glorification is semantics.
How can you believe that without contradicting the verses I just quoted? You can’t just dismiss this message from Christ.
And how exactly can that happen given that "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 and the fact that Jesus indicated that the issue of salvation is finalized upon coming to faith in Christ as he said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24?Not at all friend. Just because a person has been justified (made right with God and counted as being righteous) doesn’t mean he can’t later be made wrong with God and declared unrighteous.
"required for salvation" or "indicative of the saved"? Salvation by faith in works, or salvation by faith in Christ alone, apart from works?He definitely says that bearing fruit and abiding in Him is absolutely required for salvation.
We pick up our crosses everyday, and are resurrected /glorified everyday. Picking up a cross is risking our lives, to making a fool of ourselves and being subjected to ridicule or worse, by claiming to be able to heal, or do other signs, to show our message to come out of Egypt is from God.My understanding is that glorification is the completed process of sanctification when we are finally made to be like Christ. I personally do not believe we can achieve glorification in this world.
When a person stops serving mammon it doesn't mean he has started serving God. It could be he had become sure that Egypt was a bad place and cried out for rescue. He has yet to decide if following God is a better option. He can even ask for terms of peace (extend the deadline) if he has counted the cost and does not have enough strength to make it to the finish. If he does, God will continue to feed him bread from heaven, more signs and wonders, reinforcement to free him from the last chains that hold him back, just as baptism into signs and wonders, spiritual food, drowned the main enemies of freedom in the breakout attempt. Joshua counted the cost and switched. It took him to God's side. Boom! Sinless. Ditto Peter.And how exactly can that happen given that "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 and the fact that Jesus indicated that the issue of salvation is finalized upon coming to faith in Christ as he said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24?
You're talking about people who don't have saving faith and as such have not been born of God. Those of us who have saving faith have eternal life and have been born of God.When a person stops serving mammon it doesn't mean he has started serving God. It could be he had become sure that Egypt was a bad place and cried out for rescue. He has yet to decide if following God is a better option. He can even ask for terms of peace (extend the deadline) if he has counted the cost and does not have enough strength to make it to the finish. If he does, God will continue to feed him bread from heaven, more signs and wonders, reinforcement to free him from the last chains that hold him back, just as baptism into signs and wonders, spiritual food, drowned the main enemies of freedom in the breakout attempt. Joshua counted the cost and switched. It took him to God's side. Boom! Sinless. Ditto Peter.
Psalms 106
11The waters covered their adversaries;
not one of them survived.
Can you show me an example of a person who has saving faith in Scripture?You're talking about people who don't have saving faith and as such have not been born of God. Those of us who have saving faith have eternal life and have been born of God.