I simply don't have the time or inclination to answer these long and many faceted posts of yours. Please take one thought or scripture at a time for me to address.
Your statement and question is a bit disjointed. But I'll give it a shot anyway.
If you are saying that I said that all references to sheep in the N.T. refer to other than believers - that would be false. This is your question as it is worded.
If you are saying that I believe that most and perhaps even all references to sheep in the N.T. are speaking of believers - that would be correct. We agree about that.
However, it must be noted, nations themselves don't believe on Christ. It is true that many people call the U.S. a "Christian nation". It is true that some nations like the U.S. are historically strongly Christian influenced and therefore their laws and actions may reflect that fact. But nations as such are not believers even though they may have many believers living within them which results in certain "Christian" laws and policies.
If the U.S., for instance, protects and serves as a sanctuary for Jews and Christians during their persecution in the Tribulation when it might cost her dearly - it will likely be because of her Christian history and because many of those in this nation are Christians and their actions reflect it. It's only one example of why a nation can be rewarded with a place in the Millennium while another, say China or Iran, may not be rewarded.
Even if a nation retains it's identity in the Millennium and perhaps beyond on the new earth because many of her people are "sheep" and act like it - the passage does not say that people will be saved "because of" their actions. Instead it says that their actions are a result of their status as the sheep that they are.
You guys, as I have pointed out before, tend to leap to conclusions which are not necessarily logical deductions from a passage. You need to watch that sort of thing if you don't want to have your illogical deductions lead you into false beliefs.
NO - that's exactly what it says.
Where in the passage do you see that the judgement has anything to do with the poor? Again with your, unwarranted from scripture or logic, deductions.
The passage simply says that different ones of the Lord's "brethren" were hungry, thirsty, strangers, naked, sick, or in prison and some treated them well and some ignored them. Heck being hungry or in prison could apply to me if my "Rapture" doctrine turns out to be incorrect and I am here during the Tribulation - because I sure as heck won't be taking the mark of the beast.
I'm running out of time here because this was such a long post. I'll hit a few more points and have to leave it at that for this post.
No - to the extent we are talking about individuals - it's salvation by grace through faith with inevitable works following that faith through the power of the eternally indwelling Spirit with whom the elect are sealed upon exercising saving faith.
This is rather basic evangelical Christianity 101 and you seem to have leaped to another subject without being grounded in those basics.
Of course.
Of course. We are to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. That's the mutual process of sanctification that is carried out with the leading of the Holy Spirit and with our following His lead.
But what it does not say is we are to do good works in order to stay saved in the basic sense of the term salvation.
Prevenient grace as you explain it is not in the scriptures. There are many in this world who will never hear the gospel. Of coure God has, according to Romans, not left Himself without witness. But that's not what you said.
I have explained that to you. Again - that's one of the most basic concepts in the scriptures and you seem to have skipped over it.
For instance - the Philippian jailer experienced basic salvation when He believed Paul's message and was baptized along with his entire family.
But - just as with Paul, Peter, you, me, and every other believer - that wasn't the end of the process of God conforming him to the image of Jesus. That involves both sanctification (which you wrongly conflate with being saved from the wrath to come) - and his glorification following his resurrection.
No - that's the impartation of His holiness through the work of the eternally indwelling Holy Spirit Who seals all true believers when they believe and are justified
before God and obtain an eternal advocate in the form of our "husband" the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ (Who ever lives to make intercession for us according to the scriptures).
Perhaps - but you do need to be reminded or be made aware of the fact that adding works to the basic gospel in order to be saved or stay saved is one of the few things that the Lord curses teachers for in the N.T.
While I do respect your saying it outright rather than beating around the doctrinal bush about it, as most anti eternal security types do - multiple spiritual deaths and births throughout the life a person is not the picture given to us by the Lord or the epistles.
In all my 74 years I have never met a person who taught that it was. That's a straw man of the first order.
And the danger I see behind the works to stay saved type gospel these days is that they often run perilously close to being cursed for teaching another gospel.
I said:
"As for me - I know Whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against the day of Judgment that is coming to everyone who ever lived."
Shades of not seeing the nations in Matthew 25.
"For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day." 2 Timothy 1:12
Please define exactly all that you mean by the word "salvation" in your next post to me.
I'm not sure how many years you have been a Christian. But, IMO, you would have been better served to master the basics of evangelical Christianity first before arguing about doctrine.
Wow -
MANY of the people you have been arguing about eternal security with over the last 8 years have committed suicide. I'm not sure how long you've been at this Christian thing. But I have been discussing this doctrine as well as others since I was 13 and I'm now 74.
Many of my years have been as a leader and a teaching elder in the church and many where I ministered in prisons and to X-prisoners and troubled youth.
My point is not to blow my horn or anything. It is just to point out that in all my years of experience I have never met or personally known of anyone who committed suicide because of or even while believing they were an eternally saved child of God. (There were, however a couple where the shoe was on the other foot who committed suicide. But I couldn't say that that happened because of a belief one way or the other concerning the doctrine of eternal security.)
I suppose you might think that I have led a sheltered life. But I assure you that that is not the case.
Even if you have several decades of Christian leadership under your particular belt - I just gotta say that you have had the most eventful life in this regard that I have ever heard of.
I don't wish to offend you. But, quite frankly, I find that it a little hard to believe what you have said.
If you have some single or a couple of thoughts or questions for me in a new post - I may continue this with you. But I simply can't keep this up any longer and I doubt that it would be very productive if we did.
