CAN A BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM GOD AND BECOME AN UNBELIEVER?

GodsGrace101

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And it seems you have a "lot more" to learn about them both. They are polar opposites.


Not a bad attempt. But it needs a bit of correction.

The "conscience" was given by God to humanity, per Rom 2:14,15. But it is correct that the human spirit relates to God.

In fact, it was the human spirit that actually died "on that day" that Adam ate of the forbidden tree. His body sure didn't die, but something did, literally. It was his spirit, which was demonstrated by the fact that when the Lord took a stroll in the garden in the cool of the evening on "that day", what did Adam and the woman do? They hid. They were unable to relate to God.

So when the Bible speaks of being "born AGAIN" or RE-generation, it can only be referring to the human spirit.

The soul contains the untuition, conscience and intelligence, for normal human functioning.

So, God created man in His "own image", which speaks of man being trichotomous, just as God is Triune.

When Adam died spiritually on "that day", he became dichotomous; body and soul.

At faith in Christ, the believer becomes trichotomous; body, soul and spirit.

Jesus told the Samaritan woman this:
God is Spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.” John 4:24

So, only believers can properly worship God. They have a human spirit.
Maybe you could also learn about arminianism....


  1. Salvation (and condemnation on the day of judgment) was conditioned by the graciously-enabled faith (or unbelief) of man;
  2. The Atonement is qualitatively adequate for all men, "yet that no one actually enjoys [experiences] this forgiveness of sins, except the believer ..." and thus is limited to only those who trust in Christ;
  3. "That man has not saving grace of himself, nor of the energy of his free will," and unaided by the Holy Spirit, no person is able to respond to God's will;
  4. The (Christian) Grace "of God is the beginning, continuance, and accomplishment of any good," yet man may resist the Holy Spirit; and
  5. Believers are able to resist sin through Grace, and Christ will keep them from falling; but whether they are beyond the possibility of ultimately forsaking God or "becoming devoid of grace ... must be more particularly determined from the Scriptures."
Sounds somewhat calvinist to me....
But, again, you can believe what you will.
 
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Hammster

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First, you didn't answer whether you can discern the difference between a policy statement and a factual statement. Can you?

Because, if you can't, you can't apply that knowledge to anything, much less John 10:27.
Can you explain what you are getting at?

Thanks.
 
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Hillsage

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I learned this in a church setting...which is a good way to learn because churches have theologians that study these things. Of course, everything has to be ba cked up by scripture.
I have learned everything in “a church setting”. But with thousands you would be wise to recognize the good/bad in all of them too.

Arminians and Calvinists are practically the same...so I don't know why they're always compared.
Just as Seventh Day Adventist’s are also “practically the same” as accepted Christian denominations. And yet the classic ‘church’ reference book ‘The kingdom of the Cults’ had a half token chapter on them. How does that sit with you?

I like the Early Church Fathers. They were the closes to Jesus and the Apostles. 325 AD and before.
Too bad they never spoke or wrote in English. That’s what makes their works as dependable as the 1,000 different translations of the NT...according to Jer 8:8 as well as my St. Jerome ‘signature quote’ at the bottom of my post. And Jerome was born in 375 AD. Close enough to be talking about YOUR FAVORITES. :idea:

Jeremiah 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

I honestly don't understand that. If a preacher preaches the trichotomy of man, that is what he will preach.
Then maybe you haven’t spent enough time in “the church”....of churches, as I have then. I’ve heard it many times in my life.

I have to tell you right now that I don't believe a person can understand the bible on their own.
There are persons that have studied the bible for many years that know it a lot better than we can.
We're still free to develop our own understanding of it.
I agree. And the Bible tells us what’s needed most, as well as least. And most of today’s theologians fall into Paul’s “ungifted/unlearned” category of non spiritual Christianity IMO. But as for carnal minded religion!!! Well they’ve written tons. Which leads to my last ‘least needed’ resource.

Ecc 12:11-12 The words of the wise are like goads, and like nails firmly fixed are the collected sayings; they are given by one Shepherd. 12My son, beware of anything beyond these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

As for me I’ll ‘trust more’ in fewer shepherds and more of ‘the Holy Spirit’ and the ‘anointing’ to lead and guide me into the truth of my “one shepherd”. Unfortunately that’s a path which scares the hell ‘into’ the nominal church of today. But not “the few” you mentioned earlier which He will find on earth.

For instance...what you say above sounds very much like gnosticism which is a heresy and has been condemned by every church.
And “what you say” sounds like poor spiritual judgement.


The BODY does not sin,,,,
Our soul sins....
Our spirit AFFECTS the soul and causes it to be more in tune with God. Our spirit affects our emotions, our will, etc.
Then tell God the Bible should have said “cut your soul off” to prevent sin. Instead of “go into life with one eye or one hand.

I believe you don’t rightly divide scripture as well as you do man. Your spirit deals with iniquities, your soul with transgressions and your body commits the sin.

Exodus 34:7 keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation."

I’m stopping with this; I’m in a church of a 1,000 and am highly regarded. My brother is an elder in the same church. And Paul said I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all. And I agree with Paul doing so “more than all” of the 100% Charismatic church of Corinth, to which he wrote. But I can only testify to doing so ’more than most’, of the church I am in.
 
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JLB777

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I think He’s a better Father than you give Him credit for.


Please don’t assume that you know me or how I perceive my Heavenly Father.


I know you don’t have any scripture for your theory, but please don’t try and insult me.



JLB
 
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Hammster

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Please don’t assume that you know me or how I perceive my Heavenly Father.


I know you don’t have any scripture for your theory, but please don’t try and insult me.



JLB
I didn’t assume.
 
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GodsGrace101

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I have learned everything in “a church setting”. But with thousands you would be wise to recognize the good/bad in all of them too.
Some churches have more bad in them than other churches.


Just as Seventh Day Adventist’s are also “practically the same” as accepted Christian denominations. And yet the classic ‘church’ reference book ‘The kingdom of the Cults’ had a half token chapter on them. How does that sit with you?
To me, a cult is when people are following a human leader. I don't consider SDA to be a cult. I'm not very familiar with their church so I can't speak about it; I know that they worship on Saturday because they believe it is one of the 10 commandments.
I love all my brothers in Christ...even if their doctrine does not agree with mine.


Too bad they never spoke or wrote in English. That’s what makes their works as dependable as the 1,000 different translations of the NT...according to Jer 8:8 as well as my St. Jerome ‘signature quote’ at the bottom of my post. And Jerome was born in 375 AD. Close enough to be talking about YOUR FAVORITES. :idea:

Jeremiah 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

Then maybe you haven’t spent enough time in “the church”....of churches, as I have then. I’ve heard it many times in my life.
Please speak plainly.
What is the church of churches?
Osmosis doesn't work well with me.


I agree. And the Bible tells us what’s needed most, as well as least. And most of today’s theologians fall into Paul’s “ungifted/unlearned” category of non spiritual Christianity IMO. But as for carnal minded religion!!! Well they’ve written tons. Which leads to my last ‘least needed’ resource.

Ecc 12:11-12 The words of the wise are like goads, and like nails firmly fixed are the collected sayings; they are given by one Shepherd. 12My son, beware of anything beyond these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

As for me I’ll ‘trust more’ in fewer shepherds and more of ‘the Holy Spirit’ and the ‘anointing’ to lead and guide me into the truth of my “one shepherd”. Unfortunately that’s a path which scares the hell ‘into’ the nominal church of today. But not “the few” you mentioned earlier which He will find on earth.


And “what you say” sounds like poor spiritual judgement.



Then tell God the Bible should have said “cut your soul off” to prevent sin. Instead of “go into life with one eye or one hand.

I believe you don’t rightly divide scripture as well as you do man. Your spirit deals with iniquities, your soul with transgressions and your body commits the sin.

Exodus 34:7 keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation."

I’m stopping with this; I’m in a church of a 1,000 and am highly regarded. My brother is an elder in the same church. And Paul said I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all. And I agree with Paul doing so “more than all” of the 100% Charismatic church of Corinth, to which he wrote. But I can only testify to doing so ’more than most’, of the church I am in.
No comment.
 
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Hillsage

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Some churches have more bad in them than other churches.
That was plainly ‘my point’.

To me, a cult is when people are following a human leader.
You mean like Peter/Catholics, John Wesley/Presbyterians, John Calvin/Baptist’s, Menno Simmons/Mennonites etc. etc...a 1,000 time over ‘so far’?

According to dictionary definitions the Mormons and JW’s don’t even qualify as cults. But I personally find it funny when the ‘nominal’ church goers usually judge every one as a cult simply based upon ‘anyone’ who doesn’t agree with ‘them’. :doh:
I don't consider SDA to be a cult. I'm not very familiar with their church so I can't speak about it;
Please read what you just said. :idea:

I love all my brothers in Christ...even if their doctrine does not agree with mine.
As do I, and ‘sisters’ too. :) As should all the church also. So your point was what?

Please speak plainly.
What is the church of churches?
Osmosis doesn't work well with me.
Don’t need ‘osmosis’. Just a little ‘deeper thinking’, even as I’m trying to ‘gently’ point out, in what you’ve said so far.

My point was, there is “the church”,a term you had just used, ‘and my point was’ that there are 1,000 of disagreeing “churches”.

Bigger picture being; When Jesus looks down He only sees ‘one church’ and that is ‘the church’ which He said “I will build”. And ‘that church’ is hidden in “the churches” of Christianity.

So then, when you want to ‘inform me’ of a couple of ones you think I should go to, I hope you now know, just how funny that might be to me.

Do ‘you’ speak in tongues, but just not “too much” like the AOG?
No comment.
No osmosis needed for me to wonder why. But we’re way off topic so just be blessed wherever you are going sister. :wave:
 
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