What is the obligation of the Christian?

[BNR32FAN]

Sorry but I don't understand the relation of JN 15:1-10 to my post. Could you please explain?

John 15:1-14 actually supports my previous post. That’s why I’m curious what your interpretation of these verses are.

 

[ace of hearts]

John 15:1-14 actually supports my previous post. That’s why I’m curious what your interpretation of these verses are.

Sorry but I disagree. You imply at least we're to keep the law. JN 15:1-14 tells me we're in Jesus Christ and to keep His commandments. The law wasn't given by Jesus - JN 1:17. So at best you're a divided house. Once I was also divided house which almost destroyed me.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Sorry but I disagree. You imply at least we're to keep the law. JN 15:1-14 tells me we're in Jesus Christ and to keep His commandments. The law wasn't given by Jesus - JN 1:17. So at best you're a divided house. Once I was also divided house which almost destroyed me.

What does verse 2 say about branches who are in Christ that don’t bear fruit?

 

[ace of hearts]

What does verse 2 say about branches who are in Christ that don’t bear fruit?

Why are you asking? Isn't the real issue about what the fruit is?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why are you asking? Isn't the real issue about what the fruit is?

Lol I think you know why I’m asking and I think that’s why you declined to answer. And in answer to your question no I don’t think that is the real issue. I think the real issue is we must discern all scriptures and not exclude the parts that don’t coincide with our beliefs.

 

[ace of hearts]

Lol I think you know why I’m asking and I think that’s why you declined to answer. And in answer to your question no I don’t think that is the real issue. I think the real issue is we must discern all scriptures and not exclude the parts that don’t coincide with our beliefs.

No I declined to give you the answer you require. I can give you a better answer if you want to define those works. Everyone bears fruit of some kind. That's why we read -

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

 

[BNR32FAN]

No I declined to give you the answer you require. I can give you a better answer if you want to define those works. Everyone bears fruit of some kind. That's why we read -

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

You declined to give any answer at all pertaining to John 15:2. I’m asking for your answer not mine. What did Jesus say about those who are in Christ that don’t bear fruit? It’s a simple question. I don’t need to twist anything it’s written right there in the scriptures for all to see.

About Matthew 7 Are you suggesting that we can bear either good fruit or bad fruit and it doesn’t matter? That we will still be saved? The rest of the message you quoted suggests otherwise.

“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭7:17-20‬ ‭NASB‬

 

[ace of hearts]

You declined to give any answer at all pertaining to John 15:2. I’m asking for your answer not mine. What did Jesus say about those who are in Christ that don’t bear fruit? It’s a simple question. I don’t need to twist anything it’s written right there in the scriptures for all to see.

Evidently you missed this from my post which I quote -

"Everyone bears fruit of some kind. That's why we read -

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"

So I did answer your question. But like I said you don't like the answer.

About Matthew 7 Are you suggesting that we can bear either good fruit or bad fruit and it doesn’t matter? That we will still be saved? The rest of the message you quoted suggests otherwise.

Read only what the verse says. So do you want to specify what fruit you're looking for? I can't give you the correct answer until you do. In this case I won't make any assumptions.

“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭7:17-20‬ ‭NASB‬

Exactly what I said.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Evidently you missed this from my post which I quote -

"Everyone bears fruit of some kind. That's why we read -

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"

So I did answer your question. But like I said you don't like the answer.Read only what the verse says. So do you want to specify what fruit you're looking for? I can't give you the correct answer until you do. In this case I won't make any assumptions. Exactly what I said.

It sounds like your saying it doesn’t matter what kind of fruit we produce. That we can produce either good fruit or bad fruit and still be saved. It’s not clear because you don’t explain very much at all.

 

[ace of hearts]

It sounds like your saying it doesn’t matter what kind of fruit we produce. That we can produce either good fruit or bad fruit and still be saved. It’s not clear because you don’t explain very much at all.

That opinion is on you. You're projecting unsaid things.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That opinion is on you. You're projecting unsaid things.

Like I said it’s unclear what you are saying because you give no explanation. My statement was meant as a question. I wasn’t accusing you of saying that I said it appears you are saying that. My hope was that you would elaborate and clarify your position. Honestly it seems like you are intentionally being obtuse in order to not make a point because I believe you realize you have made an error and are unwilling to retract your statement and are incapable of stating your point without contradicting yourself or the scriptures. If you say it doesn’t matter what kind of fruit we produce and we can still be saved your contradicting Matthew 7:19. If you say we must produce good fruit to be saved then your quote of Matthew 7:17 doesn’t fit the situation and you’ve proven me correct on John 15:2. So what exactly is your position? Are we saved if we simply bearing fruit regardless if it is good or bad or are we saved if we bear good fruit and condemned if we do not bear good fruit?

 

[ace of hearts]

Like I said it’s unclear what you are saying because you give no explanation. My statement was meant as a question. I wasn’t accusing you of saying that I said it appears you are saying that. My hope was that you would elaborate and clarify your position. Honestly it seems like you are intentionally being obtuse in order to not make a point because I believe you realize you have made an error and are unwilling to retract your statement.

I asked you a question to make a proper response. You don't want to do this so I can't give you a better response. So if you want to play, perform.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I asked you a question to make a proper response. You don't want to do this so I can't give you a better response. So if you want to play, perform.

I’m sorry what was your question?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What are positive laws? What about the negative laws?

TORAH. Seek Yahuweh(God) and His Righteousness, as written, and all the necessities of life (and for salvation) are accomplished/ provided by Yahuweh, as written. (not man's ways)

 

[ace of hearts]

Like I said it’s unclear what you are saying because you give no explanation. My statement was meant as a question. I wasn’t accusing you of saying that I said it appears you are saying that. My hope was that you would elaborate and clarify your position. Honestly it seems like you are intentionally being obtuse in order to not make a point because I believe you realize you have made an error and are unwilling to retract your statement and are incapable of stating your point without contradicting yourself or the scriptures. If you say it doesn’t matter what kind of fruit we produce and we can still be saved your contradicting Matthew 7:19. If you say we must produce good fruit to be saved then your quote of Matthew 7:17 doesn’t fit the situation and you’ve proven me correct on John 15:2. So what exactly is your position? Are we saved if we simply bearing fruit regardless if it is good or bad or are we saved if we bear good fruit and condemned if we do not bear good fruit?

I made no statement about being saved in that post. I didn't contradict anything. Now would you like to id the fruit you're talking about besides calling it good or bad?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I made no statement about being saved in that post. I didn't contradict anything. Now would you like to id the fruit you're talking about besides calling it good or bad?

The fruit Jesus is referring to in John 15 is to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and to love others.

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

I believe in Matthew 25:31-46 the goats were condemned because they did not love others. Notice the examples given in verses 42 & 43. They are all pertaining to love for others.

“"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭25:41-43‬ ‭NASB‬‬

James gives similar examples in James 2:15 & 16 in reference to verse 14 when he said can that faith save him? Indicating that a faith without works of love is not a saving type of faith.

 

[ace of hearts]

The fruit Jesus is referring to in John 15 is to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and to love others.

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

I believe in Matthew 25:31-46 the goats were condemned because they did not love others. Notice the examples given in verses 42 & 43. They are all pertaining to love for others.

“"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭25:41-43‬ ‭NASB‬‬

James gives similar examples in James 2:15 & 16 in reference to verse 14 when he said can that faith save him? Indicating that a faith without works of love is not a saving type of faith.

Not exactly the response I was expecting. I like it and accept it as the fruit of being in Jesus Christ.

Now I want to know why you pushed this issue, if you don't mind given my over all posts. What were your suspensions and why?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not exactly the response I was expecting. I like it and accept it as the fruit of being in Jesus Christ.

Now I want to know why you pushed this issue, if you don't mind given my over all posts. What were your suspensions and why?

I’m not exactly sure what you mean but my intention was to show that even those who are in Christ can be cut off from the vine, cast away to wither, and cast into the fire if they fail to abide in Christ.

 

[ace of hearts]

I’m not exactly sure what you mean but my intention was to show that even those who are in Christ can be cut off from the vine, cast away to wither, and cast into the fire if they fail to abide in Christ.

My frame of reference is Christians opposed to religious christians or people. It's very hard to tell the difference because of outward appearances. Remember our enemy appears as an angel of light.

 

[BNR32FAN]

My frame of reference is Christians opposed to religious christians or people. It's very hard to tell the difference because of outward appearances. Remember our enemy appears as an angel of light.

Yes but you have to remember that we are talking about Jesus’ words here. Jesus says in verse 2 these people are in Christ. He doesn’t say they claim to be or say they are in Christ. He says every branch in Me that doesn’t bear fruit. False professors are not in Christ and are not attached to the vine to begin with so they cannot be cut off from what they are not attached to.