Can the Church Survive Without God's Word?

Can the church survive without God's word?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 17 43.6%
  • No.

    Votes: 22 56.4%

  • Total voters
    39

bekkilyn

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Yes. The Bible tells me about Jesus. They interwined. You cannot have one without the other. A person knows about the correct version of Jesus from the Bible. We know about the correct teachings of Jesus from the Bible. This is not from some vision, dream, prayer, a book that is not the bible, etc.

So you are saying that the Bible created Jesus, since Jesus' very existence is dependent on the existence of the Bible? So yet again, the Bible is given priority over God. How can you not see how limiting this is, that you are putting your own human limitations onto God and creating him in your own image based on your own interpretations of the Bible?
 
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So you are saying that the Bible created Jesus, since Jesus' very existence is dependent on the existence of the Bible? So yet again, the Bible is given priority over God. How can you not see how limiting this is, that you are putting your own human limitations onto God and creating him in your own image based on your own interpretations of the Bible?

No. I am not saying the Bible created Jesus. That again is an obviously erroneous claim against what Sola Scriptura Christians believe (and you know it). Believers today know about Jesus as a result of the Bible because it is the method of communication God chose for them. God's form of communication is different through out time.

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bekkilyn

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No. I am not saying the Bible created Jesus. That again is an obviously erroneous claim against what Sola Scriptura Christians believe (and you know it). Believers today know about Jesus as a result of the Bible because it is the method of communication God chose for them. God's form of communication is different through out time.

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Well we know it must be true if a meme says so....

But it's strange that I've never seen a verse in the Bible that specifically states that God can only speak through the Bible. (Which would be even more difficult to produce such a verse considering that the Bible didn't yet exist.) Sounds like a made up doctrine that some people have convinced themselves must be true (and yet isn't even in the Bible) despite also being a doctrine that denies the Holy Spirit and completely ignores all the other ways God regularly speaks to us.

If only God weren't so rebellious against all the rules that we create for him! The idea that he could or should speak in ways that we don't approve!
 
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Tone

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2 Timothy 3:16
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,"

Romans 15:4
"For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope."

John 5:39
"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,"

Joshua 1:8
"This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success."

Psalms 19:7-11
"The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple; the precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes; the fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the Lord are true, and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb. Moreover, by them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward."

Revelation 22:18-19
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."

2 Peter 1:20
"Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation."

Matthew 5:18
"For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

Matthew 22:29
"But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God."

2 Peter 3:15-16
"And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures."

John 10:35
"If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—"

Matthew 4:4
"But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”"

Isaiah 28:13
"And the word of the Lord will be to them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little, that they may go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work."

2 Peter 1:20-21
"Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

Isaiah 28:9-10
"“To whom will he teach knowledge, and to whom will he explain the message? Those who are weaned from the milk, those taken from the breast? For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little.”"

Revelation 1:1-20
"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near. John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood ..." (emphasis mine)

Romans 4:2-25
"For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: "

Acts 17:11
"Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so." (emphasis mine)


THESE NOBLE JEWS TESTED THE SPOKEN WORD AGAINST THE WRITTEN WORD.
 
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bekkilyn

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No one is arguing that scripture isn't useful for various things, but to claim that "the Bible" (that didn't exist until centuries later) is the ONLY way that God ever speaks to us...never found a verse for that one.
 
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Eloy Craft

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We know about Jesus because of the Bible.
Acts 8

30 So Philip ran up to it and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah. He asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 He replied, “How can I, unless someone guides me?”
 
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Tone

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Acts 8

30 So Philip ran up to it and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah. He asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 He replied, “How can I, unless someone guides me?”

John 16:13
"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

Acts 17:11
"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
 
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Eloy Craft

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John 16:13
"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
This promise isn't given to individuals but the Church. Otherwise there would be no divisions.

Acts 17:11
"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
Why did they search the scriptures? Because they 'received' the Word that Paul spoke.
 
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Tone

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This promise isn't given to individuals but the Church. Otherwise there would be no divisions.

Why did they search the scriptures? Because they 'received' the Word that Paul spoke.


Are you saying that you don't have the Spirit?
 
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Tone

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The Holy Spirit leads you, yourself, to all Truth? You don't need anyone else to arrive at all Truth? Does all Truth mix with error? Is it received before Christ comes again?

Yes, He leads me through His Word, and not just me, but all who hear His Voice and we have fellowship with one another and edify each other with our gifts. Yes, I need the hands, and feet, and all the other parts of His Body to grow in wisdom,knowledge, and understanding. If you are asking whether or not the Spirit of Truth abides in and works through fallible human beings, then yes, of course, since He is amongst us even now, as we still inhabit corruption. Yes, we have Truth now, because He said:

Deuteronomy 31:6
"Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee."

Hebrews 13
"5Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, for God has said: “Never will I leave you, never will I forsake you.” 6So we say with confidence: “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?”

Matthew 28
"19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”"
 
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Eloy Craft

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Yes, He leads me through His Word,
Amen.

Yes, I need the hands, and feet, and all the other parts of His Body to grow in wisdom,knowledge, and understanding.
:oldthumbsup:

If you are asking whether or not the Spirit of Truth abides in and works through fallible human beings, then yes, of course, since He is amongst us even now, as we still inhabit corruption.
Of course I agree but no that wasn't what I was asking. I was asking if the teaching was once all true but now is not, why was it ever all true in the first place and can it ever be all true again before Jesus returns?

Matthew 28
"19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”"
The first apostles went out to convert the nations believing the Gospel would be spread entirely by word of mouth.
 
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Acts 8

30 So Philip ran up to it and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah. He asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 He replied, “How can I, unless someone guides me?”

Acts of the Apostles 8:30 is describing the Ethiopian Enuch who did not believe yet and who did accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior yet; Hence, he did not receive the Spirit yet. So Philip was the one who then guided him to gospel message and NOT as a means to teaching him Scripture after he was saved.

Believers who have accepted Jesus and who have received the anointing of the Holy Spirit do not need that any man can teach them.

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." (1 John 2:27).​

Believers are to also cooperate with the Lord and study to show themselves approved unto God, too.

"Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that need not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15).​

I hope this helps.

May God bless you.
 
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Sure. I'm not lead to 'all' Truth though. The march goes on.

But the Scriptures say that you will be led into all truth by the Spirit.

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." (John 16:13).

His word is truth.

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." (John 17:17).
 
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Eloy Craft

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Acts of the Apostles 8:30 is describing the Ethiopian Enuch who did not believe yet and who did accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior yet; Hence, he did not receive the Spirit yet. So Philip was the one who then guided him to gospel message and NOT as a means to teaching him Scripture after he was saved.

Believers who have accepted Jesus and who have received the anointing of the Holy Spirit do not need that any man can teach them.

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." (1 John 2:27).​

Believers are to also cooperate with the Lord and study to show themselves approved unto God, too.

"Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that need not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15).​

I hope this helps.

May God bless you.
You seem to take the position that the bible is unnecesary except for clergy. The workmen mentioned in 2 Timothy are the Bishops and Deacons. Nevertheless, the Enuch couldn't understand the scriptures without someone to guide him. I think after he was baptized he still needed a guide. If John 1 2:27 meant as you posit all Christians would be united in faith.
 
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Eloy Craft

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But the Scriptures say that you will be led into all truth by the Spirit.

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." (John 16:13).
He was speaking of Pentecost. The Apostles received the Spirit Jesus was teaching them about.The Church at Pentecost received the Spirit.
 
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You seem to take the position that the bible is unnecesary except for clergy. The workmen mentioned in 2 Timothy are the Bishops and Deacons. Nevertheless, the Enuch couldn't understand the scriptures without someone to guide him. I think after he was baptized he still needed a guide. If John 1 2:27 meant as you posit all Christians would be united in faith.

Then 1 John 2:27, and 2 Timothy 2:15 are useless nonsense.
 
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He was speaking of Pentecost. The Apostles received the Spirit Jesus was teaching them about.The Church at Pentecost received the Spirit.

So Peter wrote his letters before Pentecost? Peter was not guided into truth as he wrote to other believers? I find that hard to believe.
 
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