The Inspiration of Scripture

[FireDragon76]

I chose United Methodist because of the theological focus on grace and I agreed more closely with their social principles. The Methodist movement actually came out of the Anglican Church as John and Charles Wesley were Anglican priests all of their lives and it was never originally intended to become a separate denomination. One issue ended up being more political than anything else because after the American Revolution, the former English Colonies did not want to be under anything resembling English rule, so Methodists separated from the Anglican church, but not because of doctrinal issues. I've attended bible studies at Lutheran churches. I also currently attend Sunday evening services when I can at a local independent Baptist church, and also have SDA friends whose church I visit with them for fellowship from time to time.

Even though we have disagreements on various theological points, the focus is still Jesus Christ, and the same would be true for Catholics or Orthodox. In fact, one of the people in my former Sunday School class is Greek Orthodox and she still attended services there from time to time. (Her husband is United Methodist). There were also a number of people who grew up Catholic.

There really isn't as much denominational division as people think. When we did an informal survey of why people were there at the Methodist church instead of some other denomination, the largest reason by far was that they visited the church at some point and liked the people in it. It seems most people in general, regardless of denomination, are not very familiar with the differences between all of these denominations and just go to the church they like or because they grew up in it.

So yes, why not both/and? Why can't they all be healthy in some way as they serve the different needs of all the unique individuals that God created?

I belong to the ELCA though because I feel like God personally called me to it, not merely because I just picked a church. I prayed to God to show me a church that would preach grace, and one Sunday I was frustrated at the Episcopal cathedral I could barely tolerate (they are extremely conservative and calvinistic/moralistic down here), and I heard "A Mighty Fortress is Our God" and I thought "Hmm... why have I never though of that before. I guess maybe this might be a sign from God".

There were also alot of freaky synchronicities, like my pastor being Greek and German American and having an Orthodox father, so he could relate to me, or the place being named Reformation (it was just the one nearest to my house- I don't drive so the closer the better). I didn't initially know much about Lutheranism other than they preached alot about grace, but I went with my sense of calling.

And I still struggled a while with doubts... I even stopped going for a while, until I was drawn back for Pentecost, when something really extraordinary happened. I simply stopped doubting when the pastor prayed an old Catholic prayer of invocation of the Holy Spirit. I felt like something happened in my mind, I could feel a Mind or Intelligence near me. And I was overcome by a strange peace and I just went out and sat in the garden for an hour enjoying that feeling. I had no clue what had happened to me exactly, other than I felt I had been blind and suddenly I was filled with intuition. Then I started talking to Pastor more and he engaged in serious catechism with me for months, and in the end of 2016 I actually became Lutheran.

I love Pastor alot. He has never coerced me or pressured me in any way, he's simply been my friend and shared God's love with me. During Holy Week I had another series of experience, but it was more diffuse and less specific. My S.O. also said she felt God as well. Pastor washed my feet in the pedilavium on Maundy Thursday and I was changed. I started breaking down crying at the Easter vigil, overwhelmed with happiness, because I realized God had taken me "home" to where I truly belong. Jesus words came to me, in Mark 10:29-30 (and in my case, that was all literally true). And I felt called to start giving back to the congregation, as a result, because they were like family to me now. I actually found myself smiling for the first time in a long time, something I don't usually do because I have adult autism. I am definitely becoming a more whole person than I ever have before, I'm more like my old self before I dabbled in the Orthodox Church and the experience broke me... I actually experienced autistic regression in that church.

 

[mark kennedy]

Interestingly, the only "Scripture" in that day was the OT. The NT was at least 140 years after 1 Timothy in terms of being canonized and accepted as Scripture (as we use the word... i.e. bible). Peter called Paul's work the same word we translate as Scripture, but Paul's letters were to specific churches dealing with specific issues and weren't considered "the bible" by anyone until 200AD.

You really have no idea what authority the Scriptures were based on do you? The authority of the built on the foundation of Christ and the Apostles. By 60 AD there were very few scrolls in circulation, by 70 AD it was complete. The sudden surge of scrolls being produced coincided with the church starting to lose Apostles.

This is how it worked, you get a letter from Peter, Paul or John. Naturally they read it to the church and if another church want it read to their congregation they made a copy. This is going on for 200 years when other scrolls, produced mostly by gnostics started making the rounds. These scrolls had been in the possession of Christians their entire history and the church knew it's own sacred texts.

If you know anything about New Testament you know they are doctrinally rich. Rarely would a letter relate exclusively to one groups particular issues.

Hard to imagine so much energy spent on over dramatized semantics and not one word about why the canon of Scripture was affirmed unanimously by the early church.

 

[Not David]

First off, I think the burden is on you for making the accusation here.

Second, Christ is the Vine, and he calls us through the Gospel of the forgiveness of sins and eternal life, not through Byzantine and Russian institutions. I just happen to be Lutheran because I believe it is consistent with the faith of the early Church in its essential beliefs. But that doesn't mean I exclude other Protestants, necessarily, in doing so. Lutheranism is where God has called me to be, ultimately.

Sorry, you follow a religion who was founded 1500 years after Christ so the burden is not on me. Also, why would God be "bipolar" (sorry if I sound disrespectful to God) to send people to Churches with different beliefs? Isn't he a God of truth?

 

[Not David]

Maybe God has called her to be Methodist?

Methodists and the ELCA recognize each others ministry, even though we do not share all doctrines the same . We recognize we both preach the Word and administer the Sacraments.

Would you approve someone going to LCMS?

 

[Not David]

I chose United Methodist because of the theological focus on grace and I agreed more closely with their social principles. The Methodist movement actually came out of the Anglican Church as John and Charles Wesley were Anglican priests all of their lives and it was never originally intended to become a separate denomination. One issue ended up being more political than anything else because after the American Revolution, the former English Colonies did not want to be under anything resembling English rule, so Methodists separated from the Anglican church, but not because of doctrinal issues. I've attended bible studies at Lutheran churches. I also currently attend Sunday evening services when I can at a local independent Baptist church, and also have SDA friends whose church I visit with them for fellowship from time to time.

Even though we have disagreements on various theological points, the focus is still Jesus Christ, and the same would be true for Catholics or Orthodox. In fact, one of the people in my former Sunday School class is Greek Orthodox and she still attended services there from time to time. (Her husband is United Methodist). There were also a number of people who grew up Catholic.

There really isn't as much denominational division as people think. When we did an informal survey of why people were there at the Methodist church instead of some other denomination, the largest reason by far was that they visited the church at some point and liked the people in it. It seems most people in general, regardless of denomination, are not very familiar with the differences between all of these denominations and just go to the church they like or because they grew up in it.

So yes, why not both/and? Why can't they all be healthy in some way as they serve the different needs of all the unique individuals that God created?

I went to a United Methodist Church before going to the Orthodox Church and I see that one can believe whatever unofficially even if they contradict the Methodist teaching. I didn't believe in infant baptism at that time and believed in Calvinism. The people there were friendly, I can't deny that, but it is deceiving to go to a church you don't agree with the doctrine.

 

[Strong in Him]

The Bible is inspired by God. What does this mean?

The Bible is the word of God - yes; the written word, Jesus is THE Word.

The Bible reveals God to us - yes.

Every doctrine that people teach should be tested against the Bible - yes. There are cults whose teachings are unscriptural.

EVERY word in the Bible is from God - no, I don't believe so. Paul said that false teachers should be castrated; was that God's wish/command? Paul said that he wished people would remain unmarried. Is that God's command? No, Paul makes it clear it was his wish. Paul asked people to fetch him his cloak and scrolls; was that God's command/will? No, Paul had left them behind and wanted someone to bring them to him. Also if every word in the Bible was from God, we'd have to read it in Greek. Jesus didn't speak English and it wasn't written in English, so why would people translate the words of God into another language - particularly if that language didn't have the words to properly explain what the original words meant? E.g the word "love" can mean several things in English; in the Greek there are 4 different words depending on the kind of love being described.

EVERY word in the Bible is for US - no. Otherwise we would all be Jews under the OT law, while also believing that Christ has fulfilled the law and those who keep it are saying that Christ died for nothing. And as well as obeying those things I mentioned above, we could not have gold wedding rings - since Paul does not allow women to wear gold. Women could not wear pearls either, nor have their hair in plaits/dreadlocks, since Paul didn't allow it.

The Bible contains many different kinds of writing.
History and prophecy may be literally true; poetry and parables may not be literally true. All contain truth and reveal God to us. Even cultural instructions which describe how life was then, may be informative and of interest.

 

[Not David]

There are Evangelical people who have life-changing experiences yet because they believe in "pietism, become rigid Conservative Trump-supporters, Calvinists" they are viewed as being on error. So we see "serve God however you want" idea is hypocritical if it is against something one considers important.

 

[DamianWarS]

The Bible is inspired by God. What does this mean?

Simply put - "What the Bible says, God says."

Some say that the Bible is inspired, but they are not comfortable saying that the Bible is the very words of God. They have some looser, stranger view of inspiration.

What the Bible says, God says. Can we give this a hearty "Amen"?

do you like God-breathed? this is where the word "inspired" comes from and literally what theopneustos means or "God-breath-adjective". I think the greek is one of Paul's portmanteau words he seems to often jump to. an older definition was strictly in the biblical sense "inspired: communicated by divine or supernatural powers"

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

Lol don’t know how Cohen got involved in the discussion.

Sorry I meant to say could lol

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

Because the Bible presents different, contrasting theologies. Harmonizing them means we must weigh evidence carefully and delves into issues of hermeneutics.

But when you weigh of evidence and carefully delve into the issues of hermeneutics now we are moving into opinion territory. If we start giving our opinion on scripture it’s very possible we are no longer reading the Bible. Do you have any problem with anybody giving you an opinion on what God meant or better yet do you have a problem being the one given the opinion and filling in the blanks where it’s not so clear? I find it pretty frightening to be the one speaking for God.

 

[Heavenhome]

I first answered the OP with an
but felt I had to add something after reading the many replies

If anyone doesn't believe that the Bible is inspired by God, that it is the Word of God for us; well then you might as well make up your own because it either is or is not.

I believe the Bible is inspired by God through the various books of the Bible written by those men He inspired.
For example, I don't consider Paul's epistles as "Pauline" etc they are from GOD through Paul or whoever else penned them.

None of it is men's words they are from God. I don't want to enter into any debates on this, I am answering the OP with a resounding "Amen".

 

[Athanasius377]

I guess your pastor was inspired by the Holy Spirit the same way the other pastors from the other 60 thousand denominations.

This number keeps getting larger exponentially every time the argument is being made. Of course it isn't true either.
We Need to Stop Saying That There Are 33,000 Protestant Denominations

 

[Norbert L]

The Bible is inspired by God. What does this mean?

Simply put - "What the Bible says, God says."

Some say that the Bible is inspired, but they are not comfortable saying that the Bible is the very words of God. They have some looser, stranger view of inspiration.

What the Bible says, God says. Can we give this a hearty "Amen"?

The statement "What the Bible says, God says." is far too superficial for me to give it an amen. The reason is, because it is inspired by God we know the Bible includes numerous things God doesn't say. But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Genesis 3:4-5

What's in your quotes is a far too oversimplified response and approach to the holy scriptures to do them justice.

 

[Ken Rank]

You really have no idea what authority the Scriptures were based on do you? The authority of the built on the foundation of Christ and the Apostles. By 60 AD there were very few scrolls in circulation, by 70 AD it was complete. The sudden surge of scrolls being produced coincided with the church starting to lose Apostles.

This is how it worked, you get a letter from Peter, Paul or John. Naturally they read itto the church and if another church want it read to their congregation they made a copy. This is going on for 200 years when other scrolls, produced mostly by gnostics started making the rounds. These scrolls had been in the possession of Christians their entire history and the church knew it's own sacred texts.

If you know anything about New Testament you know they are doctrinally rich. Rarely would a letter relate exclusively to one groups particular issues.

Hard to imagine so much energy spent on over dramatized semantics and not one word about why the canon of Scripture was affirmed unanimously by the early church.

This is a typical reply that can do nothing but cause division and animosity. Yes, Mark, I do "have a clue." I've been blessed to study both semantics and first century Judean culture from the same teacher for many years. The fact that there was a limited number of scrolls available doesn't rely add or take from a very simple point I made. What was canon in Paul's day was the Torah and. Prophets alone. Not until 90AD was the Writings and Psalms made canon. And from there it would be about 110 more tears before the NT was fully compiled and declared canon. The point remaining, 1 Tim 3:16 was a reference to the Torah and Prophets and perhaps the Psalms as they carried much weight.

Thanks for the kind words and the opportunity to have a civil discussion with a brother in the Lord.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The Bible is inspired by God. What does this mean?

Simply put - "What the Bible says, God says."

Some say that the Bible is inspired, but they are not comfortable saying that the Bible is the very words of God. They have some looser, stranger view of inspiration.

What the Bible says, God says. Can we give this a hearty "Amen"?

Have you considered that in the book of Job, the devil is quoted speaking?

why tempt me? When the devil is quoted speaking, God is not speaking.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The Bible is inspired by God. What does this mean?

Simply put - "What the Bible says, God says."

Some say that the Bible is inspired, but they are not comfortable saying that the Bible is the very words of God. They have some looser, stranger view of inspiration.

What the Bible says, God says. Can we give this a hearty "Amen"?

Have you also considered when Paul said "saith I, not the Lord" ... God was not speaking there.

Also when Sarah laughed at the thought of being a mother at an old age, she said "I did not laugh" and God said "but you did laugh" .. are both sayings God just speaking with Himself?

 

[Ken Rank]

Have you also considered when Paul said "saith I, not the Lord" ... God was not speaking there.

Also when Sarah laughed at the thought of being a mother at an old age, she said "I did not laugh" and God said "but you did laugh" .. are both sayings God just speaking with Himself?

Have you considered attempting to clear any controversy you might have up by looking at the Hebrew? Inspiration does not mean perfection in translation through cultures and languages.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Have you considered attempting to clear any controversy you might have up by looking at the Hebrew? Inspiration does not mean perfection in translation through cultures and languages.

The only controversy is the idea that the bible is only God speaking, it is quite obvious more than God is speaking.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The snake said "did the Lord really say that?" so then in context of the ideology that the bible is only God speaking, means God is the devil also, this is blasphemy.

 

[mark kennedy]

This is a typical reply that can do nothing but cause division and animosity. Yes, Mark, I do "have a clue." I've been blessed to study both semantics and first century Judean culture from the same teacher for many years. The fact that there was a limited number of scrolls available doesn't rely add or take from a very simple point I made. What was canon in Paul's day was the Torah and. Prophets alone. Not until 90AD was the Writings and Psalms made canon. And from there it would be about 110 more tears before the NT was fully compiled and declared canon. The point remaining, 1 Tim 3:16 was a reference to the Torah and Prophets and perhaps the Psalms as they carried much weight.

Thanks for the kind words and the opportunity to have a civil discussion with a brother in the Lord.

I'm glad you wanted a more civil tone but it doesn't change the core point I was trying to make. The authority of the New Testament rests on Christ and the Apostles. Of course Paul is talking to Timothy about the Old Testament Scriptures, show me anywhere in the New Testament where the gospel isn't regarded as the Word of God. Before Paul mentions the Old Testament Scriptures, he mentions the gospel:

I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher. (2 Tim. 1:11)
Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you (1 Tim. 1:14)​

Clearly Paul considers the gospel to be God’s Word:

Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained. (2 Tim. 8-9)​

That the Old Testament Scriptures are able bring you to Christ:

From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (2 Tim. 3:15)

In view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage (2 Tim. 4:1-2)
​

This runs through out the New Testament and it's uniform across the Apostolic Witness, the gospel is the Word of God. I don't think we can limit the Scriptures being 'God breathed' to the Old Testament given the context this statement in 2 Tim. 3:16 was made in.

Grace and peace,
Mark