Flat earth beliefs are totally in error.

[YHWH_will_uplift]

INTERPRETATION

What do you need an interpretation on exactly?

 

[trophy33]

We do know what we are talking about. A lunar eclipse where the earths shadow is supposed to move across the moon.... which is impossible to observe when the light source..the sun... is fully visible in the sky... It breaks the laws of light...

I do not know what we are talking about, because I have never seen it in my life. Why do not we talk about daily/monthly events that make the Flat Earth impossible?

But,,... "it's refraction so you can all go back to sleep".

Great, its 11 pm here Good night.

 

[JacksBratt]

It also seems like a very odd hill to choose to die on. To any flat earther: Say that it was proven to your satisfaction that the earth was round (of course this is impossible as you will deny any kind of proof no matter what, but just hypothetically), would you then conclude that your faith was false too? There are billions of Christians who know that the earth is round and understand that it doesn't have anything to do with the truth of Christianity.

People have been solid Christians with the globe model and no issues.. Why? because God is capable of either model.

The problem is not for Christians.. if the earth is a globe or flat.... The problem is for evolutionist, alien believing, life on other planets, moon landings, mars missions and all the other stuff......

If it's flat.

 

[JacksBratt]

I do not know what we are talking about, because I have never seen it in my life. Why do not we talk about daily/monthly events that make the Flat Earth impossible?

Great, its 11 pm here Good night.

To take a slice out of the WKRP episode.... Have you seen Africa? Then, if you have never seen it in your life.... can you not talk about it?

Do you only discuss things that you have seen? Or seen a picture of? How about atoms, electrons, the Van Allen belt? Gravity waves, Black holes?

 

[MartyF]

Anyone have a take on posts #25, #26, and #62? The passages I provided are unambiguous and prove the Bible does not support a round earth of any sort.

I may be willing to go through this with you but I need to know first, are you KJVO?

If you are KJVO, there is nothing I can do and I'll have to leave you with your Unicorns and Cockatrices.

If you aren't KJVO, I'll be able to walk you through all of the passages.

 

[Lost4words]

Again, as I suggested, this would mean that from time to time the sun would be observed to rise before it's scheduled time.. If this is your argument, maybe you can show proof that the sun, which is supposed to rise at, say, 6:45, actually rose at 6:30.. which would be necessary to happen on occasion, in order to have the said effect...

Otherwise, the sun rises, on time and sets on time.... Oh.. unless it's a lunar eclipse.. then it rises early to dispel an impossibility.

Even the article that I posted states that this should be impossible...

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Yep. I really try to stay away from the Flat Earth threads since anything I say to Flat Earthers would probably risk getting me banned. I have nothing nice to say to them.

• Aurelius Ambrosius (Ambrose) (340-397 A.D.)

But they say that the sun can be said to be alone, because there is no second sun. But The SUN Himself has many things in common with the stars, For He Travels Across The Heavens, he is of that ethereal and heavenly substance, he is a creature, and is reckoned amongst all the works of God. He serves God in union with all, blesses Him with all, praises Him with all. Therefore he cannot accurately be said to be alone, for he is not set apart from the rest.
(Exposition of the Christian Faith, Book 5, Ch 2)


CHURCH FATHERS: Exposition of the Christian Faith, Book V (Ambrose)

Ambrose - Wikipedia

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

I do not know what to say.

How are people thinking with inorganic hearts transplants?

Well we are getting beside the point of the discussion of this thread but, to answer your question it is not a matter of whether one has an organic heart (flesh and blood) or an inorganic heart (not of flesh and blood). Scripture clearly tells us that God breathed into man's nostrils the breath of life and, since we know that the heart pumps oxygen (air) throughout the body it follows that God created the heart to keep the breath of life He blew into our nostrils to keep flowing. It is very simple when you take time to meditate on it and observe your own breathing and heartbeat: your nose inhales new air, your blood carries it to the heart, the heart pumps it out to the rest of the body, you exhale, and begin the process all over again.

 

[Lost4words]

What do you need an interpretation on exactly?

I dont. Your view of said scripture is wrong. Simple.

 

[_Dave_]

That being said I have kindly posed a challenge for those following this thread to examine the passages I cited in post #62 of this thread which show that the earth is not circular nor a globe of any shape or kind. Does anyone have scripture which says otherwise?

YWU, it's not about finding Scripture that refutes Scripture which allegedly says that God believes the earth is flat. Since God is the Creator He knows what He created, and it's not a flat earth. So, He felt no need to place Scripture as an apologia for the earth as we know it.

What it is, like so much of the misunderstood Bible, is a matter of understanding what is written. Like I said in a prior post there are plenty of explanations to give greater understanding to the verses you claim support your flat earth belief. I suggested a website to you that has 200 of them. I'm assuming you haven't gone there with a learning spirit.

So, here is a sample from the website:

Earth is a Disk/Circle, not a ball: Isaiah 40:22, Job 38:13–14
These books were originally written in Hebrew, not Early Modern English (i.e. the stage of the English language that includes the KJV and Shakespeare). And as explained in our article, the word translated ‘circle’ is חוּג (khûg), which is a generic word meaning ‘roundness’. Biblically, it is also used to describe the ‘vault’ of heaven. Flat-earthers insist the vault is a solid dome, i.e. a 3-D roundness (Job 22:14). So, it can’t be limited to 2-D roundness. It cannot mean ‘flat disk’ even to a flat-earther.

Some flat-earthers claim that another word דּוּר (dûr), would have been used if it had meant ‘ball’, as in Isaiah 22:18 (in the form כַּדּ֕וּר kaddûr). But Isaiah uses the same expression in 29:3, “And I will encamp against you all around (kaddûr).” Are we to understand that the army besieging Jerusalem formed a dome over the city? If not, then it follows that dûr is not exclusively used for 3-D roundness either. We have discussed this issue in Isaiah 40:22 and the shape of the earth.

Earth Measured with a Line, not a curve: Job 38:4–5
A diameter of a sphere is measured as a line. Distances between points on its surface are in linear dimensions, e.g. miles or kilometres. So what is the problem? See A direct test of the flat earth model: flight times for many examples of measuring distances on the earth with straight lines.

Paths are Straight, not curved: 1 Samuel 6:12, Psalm 5:8, Psalm 27:11, Isaiah 40:3, Jeremiah 31:9, Matthew 3:3, Mark 1:3, Luke 3:4, John 1:23, Acts 16:11, Acts 21:1, Hebrews 12:13
Even today, we talk about a ‘straight path’ as the most direct route given the constraints of the surface. Also, ‘straight path is used allegorically as the opposite of ‘crooked’. This meaning is not lost on the modern audience.

Earth has a Face (a geometrical flat surface): Genesis 1:29, Genesis 4:14, Genesis 6:1, Genesis 6:7, Genesis 7:3, Genesis 7:4, Genesis 8:9, Genesis 11:8, Genesis 11:9, Genesis 41:56, Exodus 32:12, Exodus 33:16, Numbers 12:3, Deuteronomy 6:15, Deuteronomy 7:6, 1 Samuel 20:15, 1 Kings 13:34, Job 37:12, Psalm 104:30, Jeremiah 25:26, Jeremiah 28:16, Ezekiel 34:6, Ezekiel 38:20, Ezekiel 39:14, Amos 9:6, Amos 9:8, Zechariah 5:3
I don’t know about the author of this list, but my face is not flat, but round with holes and protrusions.

Waters have a Face (a geometrical flat surface): Genesis 1:2, Genesis 7:18, Job 38:30
Again, faces are flat only in 2-D pictures. Face means ‘surface’, and surfaces are rarely flat.

Earth has Ends: Deuteronomy 28:49, Deuteronomy 28:64, Deuteronomy 33:17, 1 Samuel 2:10, Job 37:3, Job 38:13, Psalm 46:9, Psalm 48:10, Psalm 59:13, Psalm 61:2, Psalm 65:5, Psalm 67:7, Psalm 72:8, Psalm 98:3, Psalm 135:7, Proverbs 8:29, Proverbs 17:24, Proverbs 30:4, Isaiah 5:26, Isaiah 26:15, Isaiah 40:28, Isaiah 41:5, Isaiah 41:9, Isaiah 42:10, Isaiah 43:6, Isaiah 45:22, Isaiah 48:20, Isaiah 49:6, Isaiah 52:10, Jeremiah 10:13, Jeremiah 16:19, Jeremiah 25:31, Jeremiah 25:33, Jeremiah 51:16, Daniel 4:22, Micah 5:4, Zechariah 9:10, Matthew 12:42, Luke 11:31, Acts 13:47
Since the ‘earth’ here means the land, the ‘ends of the earth’ are the shorelines.God’s Philosophers: How the Medieval World Laid the Foundations of Modern Science, ch. 4, Icon Books, London, UK, 2009.">3 But even without this, a spherical earth has ends in a sense, because it is finite: the ‘ends’ in this case would be the two points at the end of diameters, roughly 12,742 km apart. This is no different than saying the flat, circular disk has ‘ends’, as they claim.

Earth has Corners: Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1
But modern flat-earthers believe that the earth is a round disk, which doesn’t have corners! This is not the only time where their alleged ‘biblical flat earth model’ is incompatible with the model they actually believe. Anyway, clearly both sides agree that they are not literal corners, so why did they even bring this up? For what this term means, see The Bible talks of ‘the four corners of the earth.’ Does this mean the days of creation could be non-literal, too?

Of course, some FEers will claim that the living part of the earth is a circular field on a larger, square plate, but at this point they are just making things up.

Firmament/Dome: Genesis 1:6–8, Genesis 1:14–18, Genesis 1:20, Genesis 7:11, Genesis 8:2, Job 37:18, Psalm 19:1, Psalm 150:1, Isaiah 40:22, Ezekiel 1:22–26, Ezekiel 10:1, Daniel 12:3
The Hebrew word is רָקִ֖יעַ (rāqîa’), which means ‘expanse’, i.e. space. See this section of our geocentrism paper; see also Is the raqîa’ (‘firmament’) a solid dome?. There are all sorts of problems that come up when people uncritically interpret the meaning of rāqîa’, including where the sun, moon, and stars are (within the rāqîa’ or beneath it?), the extents of the rāqîa’, etc.

High Altitude Perspectives: Daniel 4:11, Daniel 4:20, Matthew 4:8.
This is the best argument the flat earthers have! But these verses only superficially hint at a flat earth. In reality, this is a huge stretch.

The verses in Daniel 4 are about the dream of a pagan king! Why would anyone derive doctrine from a dream, since dreams often have fantastic elements? Nebuchadnezzar dreamed of a tree that ‘reached to heaven’ and was visible ‘to the end of the whole earth’. OK, where is this tree today? Can anyone show us the stump at least? And if from the top of that tree a person could see across the face of the whole earth, then every place on earth could, in turn, see the tree! Similarly, the Pharaoh of Joseph’s day dreamed of cannibalistic cows and even cannibalistic ears of wheat (Genesis 41), so are we to take these to be real as well? In any case, the tree was not even literal, quite aside from being in a dream, because it symbolized Nebuchadnezzar himself.

Matthew 4:8 reads, “Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.”

From this, flat-earthers presume that the world would need to be flat as all kingdoms could be seen from a high mountain. But once again, this would imply that, like Nebby’s tree above, this mountain would also be visible from everywhere. So where is this mountain? And even from a flat-earth perspective, given the dimensions of their disk, would kingdoms even be visible with the naked eye from such a great distance?

Also, the parallel passage in Luke 4:5, “And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.” It’s notable that the flat-earthers don’t cite this passage, which explains that the Devil showed Jesus the kingdoms in a moment, and doesn’t mention a mountain. So the emphasis is the Devil taking Jesus up to some isolated spot, and showing him a vision of these kingdoms.

Everyone Sees Jesus: Revelation 1:7
Yes, now we have the Internet and international news on TV. But even if this was not the case, there would be myriad places on a flat earth where a person could not see a descending Jesus, including when standing in many deep valleys, next to any tall mountain, and within many cities.

“Breadth”, spread out FLAT, of the Earth: Genesis 13:17, Job 38:18, Isaiah 8:8, Revelation 20:9
Genesis 13:17 is an example of where “earth” means the dry land. That is, God tells Abram, “Arise, walk through the length and the breadth of the land, for I will give it to you.” This is clearly about God’s promise to give land to Abraham, which was not the whole of even the land within which Abraham had travelled, but the Land of Canaan or Israel. ‘Length’ and ‘breadth’ are normal measurements of a plot of land.

Job 38:18, “Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth?” is God asking Job whether he understood the size of the earth. Clearly, he did not. Whether this is the land or the whole planet, it says nothing about its shape.

Isaiah 8:8, “And it will sweep on into Judah, it will overflow and pass on, reaching even to the neck, and its outspread wings will fill the breadth of your land, O Immanuel.”

This is explicitly about land, not the planet, and the land of Judah at that. Anyone who has been to Israel knows that its topography is hardly flat, but full of mountains and valleys, as the Bible says! So ‘breadth’ can hardly imply flatness.

Revelation 20:9, “And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth.” The ‘earth’ in this context must refer to ‘dry land’ here, because people don’t march over water!

But the important thing to remember is what I said about an apparent contradiction or anomaly in the Bible. If a verse in Scripture appears to say that God believes the earth is flat when it is just so blazingly obvious it is an oblate spheroid then we need to take another look at that verse to see if we were understanding it right. That's what the folks at creation.com have done.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

• Aphrahat (270-345 A.D.)

For The Sun in twelve hours Circles Round, From The East Unto The West; And When He Has Accomplished HIS COURSE, His Light Is Hidden in the night-time, and the night is not disturbed by his power. And in the hours of the night the sun turns round in his rapid course, and turning round begins to run in his accustomed path.
(Demonstrations, 24).

CHURCH FATHERS: Demonstration VI (Aphrahat)

 

[MariaJLM]

Why are people citing theologians on what is clearly a scientific subject? Theology and science are two different fields.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

I dont. Your view of said scripture is wrong. Simple.

So why did you bark "INTERPRETATION" thrice in this thread? Doesn't your avatar say you're like a puppy which needs guidance, and that is why you're lost for words?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

• Augustine of Hippo (354-430 A.D.)

For an eclipse of The Sun had also happened; and this was attributed to the divine power of Romulus by the ignorant multitude, who did not know that it was brought about By The Fixed Laws Of THE SUN'S COURSE.

(City of God, Bk 3, Ch 15)

CHURCH FATHERS: City of God, Book III (St. Augustine)

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

• Basil of Caesarea (Saint Basil The Great) (330-379 A.D.)

It will not lead me to give less importance to the creation of the universe, that the servant of God, Moses, is silent as to shapes; he has not said that the earth is a hundred and eighty thousand furlongs in circumference; he has not measured into what extent of air its shadow projects itself Whilst The Sun Revolves Around It, nor stated how this shadow, casting itself upon the moon, produces eclipses.

(Homilies, 9).

CHURCH FATHERS: Hexaemeron, Homily IX (Basil)

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

I may be willing to go through this with you but I need to know first, are you KJVO?

If you are KJVO, there is nothing I can do and I'll have to leave you with your Unicorns and Cockatrices.

If you aren't KJVO, I'll be able to walk you through all of the passages.

Although I grew with the KJV I have no biased towards a particular translation.

YWU, it's not about finding Scripture that refutes Scripture which allegedly says that God believes the earth is flat. Since God is the Creator He knows what He created, and it's not a flat earth. So, He felt no need to place Scripture as an apologia for the earth as we know it.

What it is, like so much of the misunderstood Bible, is a matter of understanding what is written. Like I said in a prior post there are plenty of explanations to give greater understanding to the verses you claim support your flat earth belief. I suggested a website to you that has 200 of them. I'm assuming you haven't gone there with a learning spirit.

So, here is a sample from the website:


But the important thing to remember is what I said about an apparent contradiction or anomaly in the Bible. If a verse in Scripture appears to say that God believes the earth is flat when it is just so blazingly obvious it is an oblate spheroid then we need to take another look at that verse to see if we were understanding it right. That's what the folks at creation.com have done.

Well I wish you would not assume as that is offensive. Although I did not tell you explicitly that I went to the link you shared with me, I did and I read through it. That being said I felt no need to answer it because I did not use the scripture to argue in the sense that the authors of that site accused others of arguing for a flat earth.

I brought up the idea for others to contribute scripture which shows that I may have missed any references to the earth being round. Thankfully we don't have to go through the same pains as the early scribes of searching for every instance of the description of the earth and commit it to memory. That being said one can easily go onto a major bible engine and will see for themselves that God did not create a round earth nor does He describe it as such. Now I kindly gave all of the references I could find in post #62 which describe the earth as not being round. It does not matter how much math one performs and how many references one cites:

The Bible only describes the earth as having four corners, no more and no less.

Circles and spheres or and combination of the two will never have corners.

Only squares and rhombus's, rectsngles, and trapezoids have four corners along with any altered version of them.

Triangles have corners but only three, not four.

With this in mind their is no way that you or anyone else can fit a round earth of any kind into the Bible as you will make the error of fitting a circle peg into a square hole or, a square peg into a circular hole. Square = Square and Circle = Circle.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel: “Sun, Stand Still over Gibeon; And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.”
So The Sun Stood Still,
And The Moon Stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.
Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So The Sun Stood Still In The Midst Of Heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. And there has been no day like that, before it or after it, that the Lord heeded the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel.

• Joshua 10-12-14

Joshua 10, New King James Version (NKJV) | The Bible App

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Why are people citing theologians on what is clearly a scientific subject? Theology and science are two different fields.

All things--including science--are from God therefore one cannot separate the Bible from science.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

My interest is in the interface between science and religion. For me there is no differentiation, science is one of God's gifts and we need to use it wisely. I wanted to join in on a thread on this subject, but there are so many that I am starting my own.
To begin, there is no way in the reality of our physical observation of the earth it cannot be a sphere. Anyone who argues against that are ignorant. No disrespect there, we are all ignorant when we do not know about something.
God gave us the gift of science, and science is telling us that the earth is a sphere.
This argument must be shelved,, unless God encourages us to continue it.

So just to confirm, have you piloted a plane and independently verified whatever the case may be?

I ask since you are appealing to science.

 

[Blade]

Ever notice.. if someone believes different.. we call them names? Some have here. Though I do not think the world is flat..yet why do you believe is round? Who told you? Seen it did you? I saw the 1st picture from space.. looked very flat to me. I watched not long ago someone let some camera up and .. there it was ..round as good be. Post after post people just coming there to make fun of FLAT earth people. What got me was.. how.. lack of a better word.. stupid those people were.

Well.. stop the video from the start and you see...wow how can the world just 10feet off the ground already look round? LOL as high as that camera could go.. the WORLD would still look flat. ITS HUGE! Very big and round. So many of NASA pictures videos.. how in the world can that METAL arm be that curved? Was not made that way.. fact I know.

I believe Jesus is real.. strange saying it here huh lol. But.. from all the visions dreams I read watched people talk about (taken with a grain of salt).. not one has ever seen the world that I have ever heard ..seen it as flat. Always round. Just sit back and LISTEN lol to them. They have some really good questions you can not find the answer for. But for me? what do I care.

Pfft flat earth.. or underwater.. blah blah blah