Tradition of men

[Not David]

This is the debate forum so non-Orthodox are allowed to participate according to the rules here

What are the tradition of men Jesus talk about?

 

[Root of Jesse]

The context around it explains pretty well: 7:1Now when the Pharisees with some scribes who had come from Jerusalem gathered around him, 2they observed that some of his disciples ate their meals with unclean, that is, unwashed, hands.3(For the Pharisees and, in fact, all Jews, do not eat without carefully washing their hands, keeping the tradition of the elders.4And on coming from the marketplace they do not eat without purifying themselves. And there are many other things that they have traditionally observed, the purification of cups and jugs and kettles [and beds].)5So the Pharisees and scribes questioned him, “Why do your disciples not follow the tradition of the elders keeping the tradition of the elders.4And on coming from the marketplace they do not eat without purifying themselves. And there are many other things that they have traditionally observed, the purification of cups and jugs and kettles [and beds].)5So the Pharisees and scribes questioned him, “Why do your disciples not follow the tradition of the elders"? 6He responded, “Well did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; 7In vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines human precepts.’ 8You disregard God’s commandment but cling to human tradition.”9He went on to say, “How well you have set aside the commandment of God in order to uphold your tradition!10For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and ‘Whoever curses father or mother shall die. Yet you say, ‘If a person says to father or mother, “Any support you might have had from me is qorban”’(meaning, dedicated to God),12you allow him to do nothing more for his father or mother.13You nullify the word of God in favor of your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many such things.”14

 

[Tone]

Extra-biblical praxes, prescribed by a usurper heirarchy.

 

[CodyFaith]

Technically Jesus was talking about Jewish tradition that was mixed in with God's Law. Tradition that they considered one with God's Law.

Such traditions still exist and are integrated into the Jewish faith via the Talmud and Jewish philosophy/thought, such as ritual hand washing which Jesus spoke of and others.

Now, this is not specifically inclusive, but extends to all traditions men have added on to God's commands and teach as one with God's commands. Since this is the debate forum and I am permitted to do so, I will say that false doctrine is a part of this, an example being any doctrine that teaches "you must do xyz in order to maintain your salvation after having been saved" and with those traditions/commands of men, comes ritual and religion that is opposed to the freedom of the gospel.

 

[The Righterzpen]

God does not despise human traditions; like if you celebrate Christmas or Thanksgiving / 4th of July (pick a quasi-secular / religious holiday) When you violate the commands of God to uphold that tradition, that's a problem.

 

[Jonaitis]

What are the tradition of men Jesus talk about?

"Why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders...?" - Mark 7:5

"You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men." - Mark 7:8

Similar to what Righterzpen said, tradition isn't inherently bad, it is when it is taught as divinely inspired doctrine and practiced as such. Our tradition should be in accord with (and governed by) Scripture, rather than sharing or raising it above the authority Scripture.

"...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men..." - Mark 7:7

 

[ArmyMatt]

whatever is not Holy Tradition

 

[Maria Billingsley]

This is the debate forum so non-Orthodox are allowed to participate according to the rules here

What are the tradition of men Jesus talk about?

They are the traditions of the Pharisees and Sadducees in the time of Christ. Today it is the same, extra religious practices that do not please the Father.
Blessings

 

[Pavel Mosko]

This is the debate forum so non-Orthodox are allowed to participate according to the rules here

What are the tradition of men Jesus talk about?

I posted about this sort of thing a week and a half ago.


The Traditions of Men

1. The term "binding and loosening" in the NT was originally rabbinic term for the regulation of halaka which was how the commandments would be carried out in ordinary life. We know from reading the NT that pharisees often were too strict in this, not using mercy when establishing these rules and rulings.
   
   In context, this is particularly true because the quote where Jesus rebukes the Pharisees, takes place when they are getting on the disciples case for eating food that came from unwashed hands! This is important because God never gave that commandment to Israel in general. The Pharisees (seeking status) took ritual commands given to the priests for making sacrifices and offerings and used them for themselves. While there was nothing wrong with that, if done rightly it might be good thing if it inspires one to holiness liturgically speaking there is a problem using a command God never gave to oppress or harass other people (which violated God's moral law)! (I doubt there was hand washing facilities that were readily available and the pharisees would rather people go hungry than avoid there tradition!)
   
   
   2) Besides that the rabbis did other things. There was a procedure called the prozbul that allowed debts to be collected and was essentially a work around because of the Jubilee debt forgiveness system instituted in the Pentateuch,
   
   
   3) Besides that there was a general tradition of following closely to the rabbi, so much that you would walk in his foot steps and have his dust upon you. While there are some parallels to this in Christianity, Jesus in a number of passages makes it clear that the 12 apostles have "they have no need of a teacher". The rabbis in spite of their education were lacking because they did not have the Holy Spirit, and the revelation that came with that indwelling. Not to mention it was also necessary to establish a New Covenant and "Wine Skin" for the end purpose of evangelizing all the nations. Anyway for this reason it was necessary to separate from that system, and the first step in doing that was Jesus formally rebuking it as he does in the Gospels.

 

[Not David]

Extra-biblical praxes, prescribed by a usurper heirarchy.

Like what?

 

[Not David]

"Why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders...?" - Mark 7:5

"You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men." - Mark 7:8

Similar to what Righterzpen said, tradition isn't inherently bad, it is when it is taught as divinely inspired doctrine and practiced as such. Our tradition should be in accord with (and governed by) Scripture, rather than sharing or raising it above the authority Scripture.

"...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men..." - Mark 7:7

Sola Scriptura is a new tradition.

 

[Jonaitis]

Sola Scriptura is a new tradition.

Sola Scriptura is grossly misunderstood.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Sola Scriptura is grossly misunderstood.

Do you hold to the position of a) John Calvin, or more modern Calvinists like b)To Keith Matthison in books like "The Shape of Sola Scriptura" and article like "A Critique of the Evangelical Doctrine of Solo Scriptura"?

A Critique of the Evangelical Doctrine of Solo Scriptura

 

[Jonaitis]

Do you hold to the position of a) John Calvin, or more modern Calvinists like b)To Keith Matthison in books like "The Shape of Sola Scriptura" and article like "A Critique of the Evangelical Doctrine of Solo Scriptura"?

A Critique of the Evangelical Doctrine of Solo Scriptura

Solo Scriptura is vastly different than Sola Scriptura.

Is Scripture Alone the Same Thing as Scripture Only?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Solo Scriptura is vastly different than Sola Scriptura.

Is Scripture Alone the Same Thing as Scripture Only?

I understand that which is why I cited and linked the article

Although, I will also quibble to some degree, based on the original formulations of the Reformers (the radical view is actually taking them at their original word and just going farther with it than what they were happy with).

But I do realize that not all Protestants are anti-tradition, anti-church fathers and so on.

 

[Tone]

Like what?

I'm gonna take post #2 by @Root of Jesse as an example during Messiah's day.

And, for today, any system that patronizes a gullible group of folks and peer-pressures them into believing or doing things that do not lead to true holiness.

 

[truefiction1]

I'm gonna take post #2 by @Root of Jesse as an example during Messiah's day.

And, for today, any system that patronizes a gullible group of folks and peer-pressures them into believing or doing things that do not lead to true holiness.

Peer-pressures a group of gullible folks into believing or doing what sorts of things that do not lead to true holiness?

 

[FireDragon76]

whatever is not Holy Tradition

"You say potato, I say potahto."

 

[Tone]

Peer-pressures a group of gullible folks into believing or doing what sorts of things that do not lead to true holiness?

2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Anything contrary to the above. For instance, they will use some scripture instead of "all scripture" and it will be mixed with philosophy; or even no scripture at all. They will convince their followers that "the man of God" spoken of is, surely, not all believers in Messiah, but only a special class of them who have been ordained to instruct the ignorant masses. They do this to fulfill their own lusts for power and wealth. So, they will promote their own brand of righteousness and this only serves to enflame the lusts of those they lead astray...thereby, perpetuating folly, for generations to come.

 

[truefiction1]

2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Anything contrary to the above. For instance, they will use some scripture instead of "all scripture" and it will be mixed with philosophy; or even no scripture at all. They will convince their followers that "the man of God" spoken of is, surely, not all believers in Messiah, but only a special class of them who have been ordained to instruct the ignorant masses. They do this to fulfill their own lusts for power and wealth. So, they will promote their own brand of righteousness and this only serves to enflame the lusts of those they lead astray...thereby, perpetuating folly, for generations to come.

You mean, like Arius did?