Is Continuationism or Cessationism a hard doctrine to prove?

[Dave L]

Wow. Did you read what you wrote?
Your rebuttal seems to agree with me.

The NT canon is a selection of works. Chosen from the whole body of early Christian writings. It is only complete in the sense that selection is done. It is the agreed upon set of books that were "voted" in. The book of James almost didn't make the cut. I don't think God is done speaking. He hasn't abandoned us as orphans to find out own way.

If you take time to study the doctrine of the scriptures in any basic Christian Theology book, you will lessen your confusion in the matter.

 

[Saint Steven]

The scriptures existed long before the RCC.

The OT, sure. The Jews/Israelites were the keepers of the OT scriptures.
That has little bearing on the discussion.

 

[Dave L]

The OT, sure. The Jews/Israelites were the keepers of the OT scriptures.
That has little bearing on the discussion.

It still remains, you cannot back your claims with tangible proof the gifts still exist.

 

[Saint Steven]

Pentecostals divided themselves off from the rest of the church in the 1900s. They did not exist before that time. They are a man made sect and faction.

Protestants "divided themselves off from the rest of the church" to follow Luther. Do you call that divisive as well? If so, what's the problem. Even Paul and Barnabas parted ways. Was that divisive?

 

[Dave L]

Protestants "divided themselves off from the rest of the church" to follow Luther. Do you call that divisive as well? If so, what's the problem. Even Paul and Barnabas parted ways. Was that divisive?

Luther and Calvin believed basically the same.

 

[Saint Steven]

You are a hyper-literalist if you think a major difference exists in the content of a scroll or book.

You say that like it is a bad thing to understand the difference between a book and a scroll.

In the passage in question, "the plagues described in this scroll" refers to what?

Revelation 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

 

[Dave L]

You say that like it is a bad thing to understand the difference between a book and a scroll.

In the passage in question, "the plagues described in this scroll" refers to what?

Revelation 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

If you have a box of cornflakes or a bowl of cornflakes, are the cornflakes any different?

 

[Saint Steven]

If you take time to study the doctrine of the scriptures in any basic Christian Theology book, you will lessen your confusion in the matter.

Seriously?
That's an insulting comment. (but I still love you)

 

[Dave L]

Seriously?
That's an insulting comment. (but I still love you)

You don't seem to understand the basics.

 

[Saint Steven]

It still remains, you cannot back your claims with tangible proof the gifts still exist.

Really?
Serving no longer exists? It does at my church.
Teaching no longer exists? It does at my church.
Encouragement no longer exists? It does at my church.
Giving no longer exists? It does at my church.
Leading no longer exists? It does at my church.
Mercy no longer exists? It does at my church.
Evangelists, pastors and teachers no longer exist? They do at my church.
Works of service no longer exist? They do at my church.
A message of wisdom no longer exists? They do at my church.
A message of knowledge no longer exists? They do at my church.
Faith no longer exists? It does at my church.
Healing, tongues, the interpretation of tongues...? They do at my church.

Romans 12:6-8
We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.

Ephesians 4:11-13
So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

 

[Saint Steven]

You don't seem to understand the basics.

Like what?

 

[Saint Steven]

If you have a box of cornflakes or a bowl of cornflakes, are the cornflakes any different?

Now you are being stubborn.
I used the very scripture in question to make my point and you are going for the workaround.

Again...
In the passage below, "the plagues described in this scroll" refers to what?

Revelation 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

 

[JAL]

All hat and no cattle. If you have the gifts, where are they?

More deflection and evasion. The topic in these last few posts isn't whether JAL has gifts. It's the fact that Sola Scriptura is a self-contradictory epistemology. Resolve THAT contradiction first, and then we can get back to talking about the gifts.

Given that cessationists have nothing to offer but a contradiction, how can they expect rational people to accept there views? That's insanity, right?

 

[Dave L]

More deflection and evasion. The topic in these last few posts isn't whether JAL has gifts. It's the fact that Sola Scriptura is a self-contradictory epistemology. Resolve THAT contradiction first, and then we can get back to talking about the gifts.

Given that cessationists have nothing to offer but a contradiction, how can they expect rational people to accept there views? That's insanity, right?

God gave the gifts to serve as a visual confirmation. But nobody even sees the gifts today. We "hear" about them in sporadic "miracles" nobody can confirm. It's always hearsay. You need ti set things straight and raise some dead people and restore some amputated limbs before claiming the gifts.

 

[Dave L]

Now you are being stubborn.
I used the very scripture in question to make my point and you are going for the workaround.

Again...
In the passage below, "the plagues described in this scroll" refers to what?

Revelation 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

scroll = word

 

[Dave L]

Like what?

You need to study the theology of the scriptures from any standard work.

 

[Dave L]

Really?
Serving no longer exists? It does at my church.
Teaching no longer exists? It does at my church.
Encouragement no longer exists? It does at my church.
Giving no longer exists? It does at my church.
Leading no longer exists? It does at my church.
Mercy no longer exists? It does at my church.
Evangelists, pastors and teachers no longer exist? They do at my church.
Works of service no longer exist? They do at my church.
A message of wisdom no longer exists? They do at my church.
A message of knowledge no longer exists? They do at my church.
Faith no longer exists? It does at my church.
Healing, tongues, the interpretation of tongues...? They do at my church.

Romans 12:6-8
We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.

Ephesians 4:11-13
So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

Raise some dead folks and then claim the gifts.

 

[Saint Steven]

scroll = word

The workaround continues...
Prove it.

 

[Saint Steven]

You need to study the theology of the scriptures from any standard work.

Translation: You have nothing.
You mean any standard Cessationist work, right? (biased brainwashing)

 

[Saint Steven]

Raise some dead folks and then claim the gifts.

The gifts are manifestations of the Holy Spirit, not manifestations of "the gifted".
If God told me to raise the dead, He could certainly do it. (through me)
If God told you to raise the dead, you would refuse. Right?

Jesus told us to raise the dead before the gifts were ever given.
Is that part of your "standard" theology course? (why not?)

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.